Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Am I correct to assume that Cakewalks Audio, Aux and bus tracks are duplicates of one (the same) Audio Track within itself? This is noticable on sends and inserts. The input of a send does not correspond with that of a send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_Jonesey Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 12 hours ago, Will. said: The input of a send does not correspond with that of a send. Can you elaborate on this? I find what you're saying/asking is confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Bristol_Jonesey said: Can you elaborate on this? I find what you're saying/asking is confusing It is simple. Changing the Aux input of a send does not follow the rule of the input change. Switching the input between L/R/S bring no change to the strip. In my studio DAW: When doing a stereo send and change the input of the bus to mono - it creates a mono send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 The Patch Points that connect sends/outputs to Aux tracks are inherently stereo, and selecting which part of the stereo Patch Point signal to use as input to an Aux track does not affect the channelization of the source(s). This allows, for example, sending/outputting a stereo track to Patch Point, sending/outputting a mono track to the left side of that same Patch Point and another mono track to the right side, and then having any number of Aux tracks receiving one or both sides of that stereo signal as needed. The sources and destinations can 'do what they want' without affecting each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 53 minutes ago, David Baay said: The Patch Points that connect sends/outputs to Aux tracks are inherently stereo, So basically its just a locked duplicate channel thats panned L-R in Cakewalk that are being fed/patched into the Aux. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 52 minutes ago, Will. said: So basically its just a locked duplicate channel thats panned L-R in Cakewalk that are being fed/patched into the Aux. Yes, a Patch Point is essentially just a stereo 'pipe' that any track can use as a destination or a source. Some confusion may arise because creating an Aux track automatically creates a Patch Point with the same name assigned as Input to the track, but the two objects are really independent of each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 9 minutes ago, David Baay said: Yes, a Patch Point is essentially just a stereo 'pipe' Got it. ? 10 minutes ago, David Baay said: Some confusion may arise There's plenty, but not from what it is and how it works- rather from its carrier. 15 minutes ago, David Baay said: but the two objects are really independent of each other. Not quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Will. said: 27 minutes ago, David Baay said: but the two objects are really independent of each other. Not quite. Not looking for a big debate, but curious why you would object to that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 When sending a mono (interleave) send to an Aux and you switch the Aux to mono and engage its phase invert button it doesnt cancel out entirely - as what it should. This means: The mono input on the Aux does not fully collapse the two channels into mono. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, Will. said: When sending a mono (interleave) send to an Aux and you switch the Aux to mono and engage its phase invert button it doesnt cancel out entirely - as what it should. This means: The mono input on the Aux does not fully collapse the two channels into mono. This may or may not be unexpected; I'd have to try it and think through the logic. But I don't see how that relates to the independence of Patch Points and Aux Tracks. I just meant they can be created and named separately, and there doesn't have to be a one-to-one relationship of Aux tracks to patch points. An Aux track is any track that uses a patch point as input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, David Baay said: This may or may not be unexpected; Yes, I have. Its why i created this thread. Audible.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 Did a quick test. Works as expected if Pan Law is -3dB Center which is often needed when going back and forth between mono and stereo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, David Baay said: But I don't see how that relates to the independence of Patch Points and Aux Tracks. Because the send does not create the input as it should its rather linked to the interleave and not the input. Whereby the interleave in the Input shouldve been linked? No? ? Am I incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 minute ago, David Baay said: Did a quick test. Works as expected if Pan Law is -3dB Center which is often needed when going back and forth between mono and stereo. I even did that too. It doesnt work here. Tried every available pan law. The audio is audible, but barely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Will. said: When sending a mono (interleave) send to an Aux and you switch the Aux to mono and engage its phase invert button it doesnt cancel out entirely - as what it should. This means: The mono input on the Aux does not fully collapse the two channels into mono. it's silent when i set it up to both main and aux to a master bus with aux set to 180° polarity. mono or stereo. panning all centered. i'm not seeing seeing this except if i pan the main or the aux track, then it varies in the bus. if i set the send to follow the track pan, and reset the pan, then its silent. changing the pan law with the panning impacts the amount passed when not centered. so from my perspective, this seems to be working as expected. as a note i'm using a -20db pink noise calibration file as the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 AUX-PP-NULL.cwb this is my test file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 (edited) This shouldnt only apply to changing the pan law every time in preferences. This should work perfectly in 0 centred pan law as well, when ever you match your levels. No so? Lol! Either way . . . This thread is not about "panning" its about the send inputs. Edited August 27, 2022 by Will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Stanton Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 yes. and the send inputs seems to be working as expected (for me) on patch points and aux tracks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 28 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said: send inputs seems to be working So, your inputs go from stereo to mono and vice-versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Baay Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 No, you have to set everything the way you want. Interleave and mono/stereo input selection are also independent. In my test case, I set the Aux track to receive only the left channel of the patch point. https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=Playback.19.html "The Mono/Stereo button in each track forces the track’s audio signal to enter any patched plug-ins as either mono or stereo, whether or not the tracks are mono or stereo. This allows you to use either mono effects on a stereo track or stereo effects on a mono track. Note also the documentation mentions that having input echo enabled (always the case on a live Aux track) will increase the level of a mono clip (presumably also the case for a mono patch point input) by 3dB: "Mono audio clips may be increased by 3 dB in certain scenarios There are some situations where the level of a mono clip will be increased by 3 dB if the track's output interleave (mono/stereo toggle) is set to mono: If the track has mixed stereo and mono clips The track has a synth selected as its input source Input Echo is enabled or the track is armed for recording In summary, whenever the track output interleave is mono and the data interleave is stereo, mono data will be increased in level by 3 dB." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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