Reduce the limited loop size on playback.

[Will.]

I have reported this before, and workaround are often a pain to isolate the region to be worked on. When making cuts on the specific area the loop points do not go further than an 1/8th snap note on the grid, This means: If you had make cuts in a 128th of a snap - you're by yourself. Even with the snap off this does not work, nor does it by holding down Ctrl, Shift or in a combination of these keys. The reason is to get a surgical and precise region on the playback to tame some transients and to do precise comping | or | to add some dynamics to it.

I can do cuts in samples/ticks and all that, but to get that precise area to work on, is a guessing game with the playback loop points not going smaller than an 1/8th snap note in the measure/bar.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Will.

[Klaus]

9 hours ago, Will. said:

I have reported this before, and workaround are often a pain to isolate the region to be worked on. When making cuts on the specific area the loop points do not go further than an 1/8th snap note on the grid, This means: If you had make cuts in a 128th of a snap - you're by yourself. Even with the snap off it does work, nor, by holding Ctrl, Shift or in a combination of these keys. The reason is to get a surgical and precise region on the playback to tame some transients and to do precise comping | or | to add some dynamics to it.

I can do cuts in samples/ticks and all that, but to get that precise area to work on, is a guessing game with the playback loop points not going smaller than an 1/8th snap note in the measure/bar.

 

 

I can't reproduce this.

When Snap to Grid is set to 1/128, Loop Markers will snap to that value.

According to your pic, your Snap to Grid module is set to 1/8.

 

[Will.]

22 minutes ago, Klaus said:

 

I can't reproduce this.

When Snap to Grid is set to 1/128, Loop Markers will snap to that value.

According to your pic, your Snap to Grid module is set to 1/8.

 

but it doesn't go down to milliseconds - does it? 

Meaning: It doesn't go further/smaller than a 128th of a note.  Thats my point.

Zoom in to your grid until where the loop point cant go any further. Next change your grid to 1/8th - you will be on the same discussion then. That's the equivalent the loop points reach at its limit. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by Will.

[msmcleod]

54 minutes ago, Will. said:

but it doesn't go down to milliseconds - does it? 

Meaning: It doesn't go further/smaller than a 128th of a note.  Thats my point.

Zoom in to your grid until where the loop point cant go any further. Next change your grid to 1/8th - you will be on the same discussion then. That's the equivalent the loop points reach at its limit. 

a 128th note is 3.9ms at 120bpm.

If you need more granularity, either set it to ticks ( which is a 1/960th note  - i.e. 0.52ms at 120bpm), or set it to samples.

[Will.]

1 minute ago, msmcleod said:

a 128th note is 3.9ms at 120bpm.

If you need more granularity, either set it to ticks ( which is a 1/960th note  - i.e. 0.52ms at 120bpm), or set it to samples.

But the loop dont snap for playback in tick or on anything smaller than in discussion. 

[msmcleod]

43 minutes ago, Will. said:

But the loop dont snap for playback in tick or on anything smaller than in discussion. 

Works fine here:

[Will.]

11 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Works fine here:

No. You're misunderstanding the report. Bring the END of the loop point in . . . not the start. All the way in - you will see where it stops and then jumps. 

That jump is the issue. It brings limitations to loop playback to tame transient or to pin point the perfect region when doing "comping." 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Will.

[msmcleod]

16 minutes ago, Will. said:

No. You're misunderstanding the report. Bring the END of the loop point in . . . not the start. All the way in - you will see where it stops and then jumps. 

That jump is the issue. It brings limitations loop playback to tame transient or pin point the perfect region when doing "comping." 

Right - understand.  It looks like the minimum length of the loop is clamped to 1/8th note. This is what is causing the jumping.

[Will.]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:37 AM, msmcleod said:

Right - understand.  It looks like the minimum length of the loop is clamped to 1/8th note. This is what is causing the jumping.

Correct. Would appreciate it if we can finally fix this.

I did report it here many versions ago - more than twice, but never gotten a positive response. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Will.

[marcL]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:37 AM, msmcleod said:

Right - understand.  It looks like the minimum length of the loop is clamped to 1/8th note. This is what is causing the jumping.

This is also a problem if you have a plugin that has a learn function and the area is too small (e.g. a drum hit)! I've had such a conflict several times.

[Will.]

1 hour ago, marled said:

This is also a problem if you have a plugin that has a learn function and the area is too small (e.g. a drum hit)! I've had such a conflict several times.

Hopefully, it will get fixed for the next release. 

[Noel Borthwick]

There is nothing to fix because it isnt a bug. It is intentional that the loop length cannot be made smaller because there are problems rendering tiny loops. In any case there is no musical value in setting loops that small.

[Will.]

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

There is nothing to fix because it isnt a bug. It is intentional that the loop length cannot be made smaller because there are problems rendering tiny loops. In any case there is no musical value in setting loops that small.

It's a shame. So that means you're going to limit and prevent us from doing surgical comping edits? got it . . . perfect! I don't believe anyone render these small samples, but what we do in fact do is - we use the loop point markers to surgically locate the precise area to do a cut. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Will.

[Noel Borthwick]

Um you can do as much surgical editing as you need. Looping is not intended to be an editing tool.
Use normal snap and zoom with the sample ruler to do surgical edits. Please move this to a different thread since its not related to this release.

[Will.]

8 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Um you can do as much surgical editing as you need. Looping is not intended to be an editing tool.
Use normal snap and zoom with the sample ruler to do surgical edits. Please move this to a different thread since its not related to this release.

Noel how are we suppose to locate and hear the playback in a rapid loop to tame or add to a comping section if it doesn't go smaller than a 1/8th of a note?  You cant hear the actual "perfect" headroom in the comping with this limitations on the loop points/markers? This is especially true on letters suck as S,T,K,B,P or the spike on a Snare. Advance editing is where we do vocal comping on these problem issues before I add any process effects. You get artists that do not want their vocals to go through any pitch correction vsts - so we have to rely on comping to keep the vocals natural tone and pitch in letters, and words. The less workarounds you use the more you retain that natural elements of the data.

To argue this is actually disappointing, seeing it is extremely crucial edits. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Will.

[Will.]

EXAMPLE:  Let's pretend this was an actual problem in the sample. 

Here I have a Closed hat. I only want to listen to the slightly darker (also known as the dynamic region) highlighted area, but I cant. The loop points/markers end - stucks at a 1/8th of a note. So, listening for headroom when doing comping on the attack without the use of a compressor is currently impossible. 

The size of this sample is a 1/16th of a note in the measure.

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Will.

[marcL]

12 minutes ago, Will. said:

EXAMPLE:  Let's pretend this was an actual problem in the sample. 

Here I have a Closed hat. I want to only listen to the slightly darker (also known as the dynamic region) highlighted area in the, but I cant. The loop points/markers end stuck at an 1/8th of a note. So, listening for headroom when doing comping on the attack without the use of a compressor is currently impossible. 

The size of this sample is a 1/16th of a note in the measure.

 

It's the same with the problem that I mentioned above (learn function). The only work-around I see is making  a copy of the audio into a new lane, cutting the selected area and muting or removing the rest. This is very time consuming and cumbersome, but at least it works.

[Will.]

2 minutes ago, marled said:

but at least it works.

Yes, I too have to rely on workarounds as well by using third party samplers, but why should that be, if the only thing preventing this from being done in the DAW - is the snap of the loop playback? It can at least snap to ticks. 

[Noel Borthwick]

We can consider reducing the minimum loop size below 8th notes. A single tick resolution is too low. 
A DAW needs to do a lot more setup for looping than an audio editor or sampler so looping tiny region on the timeline is not as simple as it might look. Please move threads like this out of the release thread because its more suited to the feature request section.

[Will.]

57 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

We can consider reducing the minimum loop size below 8th notes. 

Thank you. Appreciate taking time in considering this. 

57 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

A DAW needs to do a lot more setup for looping 

Cant you just remove the limitation on the snap from the end of the looping marker, because the start of the loop marker works in milliseconds. Most DAWs i'm familiar with works this way. Cant it just mirror the beginning?  Asking.  

Edited August 22, 2022 by Will.