Tim Smith Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 Here is what I am considering- Since I recently got a whole ton of classic synths I thought it might be fun to make some kind of an extended prog rock thing. I opened up a project and started about the first minute of it. I'm still debating on if I should keep it or throw it out. My thinking this far has been to do something I don't usually do and work longer overall at one much longer prog rock journey. I'm thinking 5-10 minutes long. Not a song, a journey. I am open to any suggestions from prog rockers on what kind of a journey this could be ( minus any substances ). What keys to start off in, tempos etc. What usually happens is my intentions on a project take far longer to realize than originally intended. Even making a template for a 10 minute prog journey could take a very long time. Adjusting the details would take even longer. ..and I know the music biz isn't that great right now so far as profits, but if I put two or three months into something part time I would be looking to put it up somewhere besides the places where music is free. And if you do one thing like this then people who like the music want to hear an album, so this is a real commitment over time if looking at it that way. Where say, in two years there could be an album after a lot of hard work. Granted I can't tour it because there's no band but me. I think everyone needs a goal of some kind to keep moving. I'm not mixing for the man or charging to mix projects ( not that this is a bad thing), I'm just out here doing what I do which varies considerable between the different projects. As a suggestion, maybe we could use something besides our main music channel to post links to projects we are working on as they go. All the way from the sucky beginning to hopefully better later versions of it. I don't think this should be a compliments area where we all make each other feel good. No, if we post like this, I think we should be fair about the music and tell the person who posted it. It is about the MUSIC and not a bias either for or against the person or persons posting the examples. I think opinions should be just that, mixing opinions and if the artist doesn't agree with them, then they don't need to comply with any suggestion made. All too often I see an artist bowing to an opinion from someone they don't know enough to trust, even when they liked their mix better without the changes the person is suggesting. They are doing it because "so and so" thought it sounded better. If you don't want to make the change, then don't. I would be as open minded and objective as you can be, and if you can't hear, then trust someone who can. If you don't trust yourself to mix, then hire someone and trust them to do it for you. I see this as mainly about , " This is what I'm working on I'll take suggestions", however no one here has any more right than another to say what sounds good, or what doesn't. Only what they think sounds good to them. Armchair critics are a dime a dozen and that's about what some of them are really worth. Having said that, most of the music advice given on the songs forum here is spot on because we have several experienced mixing engineers there. The music genre and delivery are obviously going to be opinion driven. Thoughts? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitflipper Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 At one time I started a similar project. I had just acquired the Oberheim 8-Voice from Cherry Audio and thought "wouldn't it be cool to do a 70's-style epic synth opus"? No samplers, no acoustic instruments, no vox, just lots of layers of subtractive synths. Well, that project sits unfinished along with a couple hundred other half-baked ideas. Lately, I've been thinking about taking a bunch of those unfinished ideas and stringing them together. Last year I gave the project another shot. I let go of my strict no-samples requirement and allowed myself to use Superior Drummer for drums. The rest is all true to the original concept, consisting entirely of subtractive synths. This is where I left off on that one... https://soundclick.com/r/s86sea No current projects, sadly, as my DAW is being rebuilt after it fried on a hot day. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I'm working on waking up. Then I plan to work on a new Citizen Regen song. Then I'll work on a nap around 2:00PM. The latter item is bound to be 100% successful. Not sure I can say the same for the two former items. Oh yeah, I've all but completed my build of THIS I managed to destroy the LED that indicates ON/OFF and I'm awaiting the replacement. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Jarvis Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 (edited) I've been wanting to do a prog project for a long time but wouldn't because it seemed to me a project like that would require outside players even though I play guitar, drums, and keys. Somewhere along the way I said the hell with it and I'm doing what I want! Right now I'm working on my third album and each album pushes me closer and closer to a true prog release. This one is more guitar oriented instead of keys like the first two. So far I have four pieces ready to mix and about 23-25 to finish I even have the album cover done and the artwork for the back cover done....just need to fill in the text! As a "one man band" it's both rewarding and difficult doing everything yourself. I just built a new machine- ASUS ProArt Z690 Creative Wi-Fi board, i9 12900k, 128gb Ram(DDR5), yadda yadda...Motu Midi Express XT, Presonus Quantum 2626. Runs anywhere from 2ghz to 5ghz depending on the load. Got 2 out of 4 M2's in(1tb OS, 2tb Audio drive) and 4 sata hdd....I can either throw 2 more M2's in or 4 more sata drives, or 1 more M2 and the 4 more sata drives!! If I can't make music now it's not the hardware or softwares fault Bill Edited July 23, 2022 by Cookie Jarvis either needs the er or it's just eith ;) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB01 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 22 hours ago, Tim Smith said: Some kind of an extended prog rock thing. I opened up a project and started about the first minute of it. Only another 22 minutes to go then ? And at least some of those need to be in 9/8 time. Sounds like a great project. Prog is seriously difficult - it's just so 'complex' and multi-layered - that's one reason why I love listening to it. Oh and don't forget to include the 'Genesis chord' (Fmaj/B flat). Good luck with it - can't wait to have a listen Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zargg Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Hi. I'm actually working on a balled of mine, that will not contain shouting/screaming at all. Acoustic geetar, SD3 (as always), some lead el geetarz, some strings & choirs and vox. Doing a bit of softly shouting at Mike after this cig break (always a good idea for "singers" ). Not trying to hit high notes today, so should be good to go ? And it's a 3+ minutes song, not my usual 5-7 mins. All the best. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 5 hours ago, Bapu said: I'm working on waking up. Then I plan to work on a new Citizen Regen song. Then I'll work on a nap around 2:00PM. The latter item is bound to be 100% successful. Not sure I can say the same for the two former items. Oh yeah, I've all but completed my build of THIS I managed to destroy the LED that indicates ON/OFF and I'm awaiting the replacement. Update: I did wake up. I did work on two new Citizen Regen songs and I'll be headed out for that nap any moment now. ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Morgon-Shaw Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 I'm currently writing some tracks for a Crime Drama show - in this part of the business everything is on spec so you write them to the brief and if the publisher likes them , you sign them over ( Gratis - Free of charge ) and hope they get used. If they get used, you get something in a year two in your royalty statement. I say do whatever makes you happy but don't expect to make any money - This quarter I got paid for a track in something that was watched on Youtube 34 million times and got £5 - I have no idea what it was ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 (edited) Sigh...I have no current projects at the moment . So I went back to the drawing board and decided to learn how to play an A Minor chord correctly . Kenny Edited July 24, 2022 by kennywtelejazz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 4 hours ago, kennywtelejazz said: Sigh...I have no current projects at the moment . So I went back to the drawing board and decided to learn how to play an A Minor Bapu's ears just pricked up..........expect a call soon.? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I'm in the same state as probably 1.000.000 other producers of electronic music: sitting here trying to find a path to releasing another actual song from one of the several dozen of (really good, IMO) song ideas I have on my computer that are 50-75% "there." One of the problems with the genre, and it's the reason that multiple books and articles on this subject have been written, is that it has no fixed set of instruments and sounds. The forms are loose, the sky's the limit. It's easier to know when a 4-piece indie rock song is ready for final mixing. All parts have been nailed, takes have been recorded. But with electronica, there's always some little bit of ear candy that can be dropped in. It's a hobby, I consider my songs messages in bottles. I wrap 'em up, toss 'em out there, and maybe 100 years from now some hipster will be digging deeply into early 21st century bedroom chillout and thrill their friends with the totally obscure stuff they found. That's the level of success I aspire to. But....no deadlines except my own death, which should be upcoming in 3 or 4 decades (although I'm rooting for being a brain floating in a jar on a shelf who can control soft synths with my thoughts). The depression and anxiety that have been my emotional wallpaper for almost as long as I can remember don't help at all. But one of the things that can put me in a rare state of giddy joy these days is coming up with a great new set of changes, sounds, and rhythm. Making it into a 2-minute snippet I can listen to on repeat while I drift off to sleep. "I made that! It sounds awesome!" I'd like to be able to share more of it, though. The thought of helping someone to feel happy, get closer to an emotion, relax, or however they connect with music seems to me to be part of my answer to "what's it all about." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bapu Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 2 hours ago, paulo said: Bapu's ears just pricked up..........expect a call soon.? All I get is a busy tone........ ......in Am 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Bapu said: All I get is a busy tone........ ......in Am Typical. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBH Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 I'm a past life prog rocker : the last couple of years I've been helping some friends and family with a heavy rock, blues, country album - Just mixing editing and lead guitaring. Unfortunately the editing part was on the order of 2k edits per song. it was long excruciating album. - and no body bothered to practice any of it in the last year it took to finish........so practicing and gigging is a disaster. One of the guys is venturing into a screamy metal blasting your brains out kind of thing which combined with garage rock performances means it going to be 2.5k edits per song. I'm slowly squirring out of it. I did however re-visit some guitar re-tracking on my karaoke versions of Jose and PEG. so that's been sort of fun. Might re-visit some Donald Fagen Nightfly stuff. Just bought the Famous E piano from OTS - so the steely dan stuff might take on a new flavour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bajan Blue Posted July 24, 2022 Share Posted July 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Bapu said: All I get is a busy tone........ ......in Am I Am in awe that your busy tone is in Am 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Smith Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 7/23/2022 at 10:45 AM, bitflipper said: At one time I started a similar project. I had just acquired the Oberheim 8-Voice from Cherry Audio and thought "wouldn't it be cool to do a 70's-style epic synth opus"? No samplers, no acoustic instruments, no vox, just lots of layers of subtractive synths. Well, that project sits unfinished along with a couple hundred other half-baked ideas. Lately, I've been thinking about taking a bunch of those unfinished ideas and stringing them together. Last year I gave the project another shot. I let go of my strict no-samples requirement and allowed myself to use Superior Drummer for drums. The rest is all true to the original concept, consisting entirely of subtractive synths. This is where I left off on that one... https://soundclick.com/r/s86sea No current projects, sadly, as my DAW is being rebuilt after it fried on a hot day. I liked your example track. The "gallop" kept by the drums and shared by the synths keeps it moving well. What you've pulled off here probably took a lot of work. Kudos on the nice synth work. On 7/23/2022 at 11:07 AM, Cookie Jarvis said: I've been wanting to do a prog project for a long time but wouldn't because it seemed to me a project like that would require outside players even though I play guitar, drums, and keys. Somewhere along the way I said the hell with it and I'm doing what I want! Right now I'm working on my third album and each album pushes me closer and closer to a true prog release. This one is more guitar oriented instead of keys like the first two. So far I have four pieces ready to mix and about 23-25 to finish I even have the album cover done and the artwork for the back cover done....just need to fill in the text! As a "one man band" it's both rewarding and difficult doing everything yourself. I just built a new machine- ASUS ProArt Z690 Creative Wi-Fi board, i9 12900k, 128gb Ram(DDR5), yadda yadda...Motu Midi Express XT, Presonus Quantum 2626. Runs anywhere from 2ghz to 5ghz depending on the load. Got 2 out of 4 M2's in(1tb OS, 2tb Audio drive) and 4 sata hdd....I can either throw 2 more M2's in or 4 more sata drives, or 1 more M2 and the 4 more sata drives!! If I can't make music now it's not the hardware or softwares fault Bill Well you aren't playing around. Or are you? I checked out you page. Some amazing stuff there! On 7/23/2022 at 5:15 PM, Mark MoreThan-Shaw said: I'm currently writing some tracks for a Crime Drama show - in this part of the business everything is on spec so you write them to the brief and if the publisher likes them , you sign them over ( Gratis - Free of charge ) and hope they get used. If they get used, you get something in a year two in your royalty statement. I say do whatever makes you happy but don't expect to make any money - This quarter I got paid for a track in something that was watched on Youtube 34 million times and got £5 - I have no idea what it was ! The common plight now it seems. I hope you see some success. YouTube is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 I spent most of the last decade writing music and making arrangments for my ex. I learned a lot in the process, so there really is no bitterness. Before we got together, I'd not touched a guitar in a year and and barely written anything in almost 18 months. All I listened to was traditional Chinese and Japanese music. And prior to that, my music featured virtually no guitar anyway. I had been working on dark elecro-ish projects for years. So I had to re-immerse myself in guitar music, rock and roll and metal. I truly love all that stuff, and I love playing guitar. But I don't feel I have anything to contribute on that instrument. I can play adequately and that's it. And living here in Vegas, where there's musicians everywhere and people who've played with this and that guy... The environment is so saturated with "classic rock" and "classic metal". I just did not want to be another one of those 50 years old in skinny jeans, with eyeliner, wearing bandanas to hide a receding hairline and playing the same tired old crap everybody else is playing in every bar in town... So I'm kind of back to focusing on the songs and they seem to come out with the same weird hybrid of genres, with the same weird assemblage of instruments as before all of this. At one point in the past, I had started working on a project for which I had a very clear idea, but I ended up piling up ideas on the side for something completely different - more of a fun things. All the songs were about death, corpses, funeral homes, and such - but with a touch of light hearted humor. And ideas kept on piling up and piling up, probably because I wasn't trying - that's just what poured out of me. There was no room for me to be self-conscious. Almost as if the project gave me the instructions and all I did was assemble material for it. Anyway, it seems to be what I naturally reverted to as a main project. Because that's what comes out naturally. But my vocabulary has developed a bit in the last 10 years, so I have more options to voice those ideas. I am also collaborating with a friend on a heavy, dark, gothic metal project, writing original material for an EP. Actually, for once I don't do the writing, I just play guitar and help with the arrangments and the instrumentation since I am the one who operates the DAW and who's fluent with that stuff. It's nice not to be in charge, for once, and the guy is writing some darn good songs, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Smith Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 On 7/23/2022 at 11:23 AM, AndyB01 said: Only another 22 minutes to go then ? And at least some of those need to be in 9/8 time. Sounds like a great project. Prog is seriously difficult - it's just so 'complex' and multi-layered - that's one reason why I love listening to it. Oh and don't forget to include the 'Genesis chord' (Fmaj/B flat). Good luck with it - can't wait to have a listen Andy Thanks Andy. I'll have to include the Genesis chord. I spent an hour going through sounds last night. I suspected the Oberheim or the Mini Moog to be the choice for my solos, but ended up preferring the Prophet 5 and the Juno 6. I dabbled with some of the lesser known synths too. While many of them have amazing sound in them, I am finding I have to "wring" something valuable out of them. I don't have all day to tweak. Tweaking is fun, but you don't write music that way. I was playing with the Arturia synths and with those you can absolutely tweak with their controller in real time and write the automation. As a meat and potatoes sort of guy I thought about loading up AIR synths and working the finer sound details later. Going through the sounds improvising did at least help with a few ideas. I don't write things down, so hopefully some of it stuck. In the end you have to start somewhere ( wait, did that make sense?) Any painting starts with the brush strokes. You have to decide on the paint. If you can't be happy with any of the paint, there's no way the artist is ever going to paint a picture. 7 hours ago, Rain said: I spent most of the last decade writing music and making arrangments for my ex. I learned a lot in the process, so there really is no bitterness. Before we got together, I'd not touched a guitar in a year and and barely written anything in almost 18 months. All I listened to was traditional Chinese and Japanese music. And prior to that, my music featured virtually no guitar anyway. I had been working on dark elecro-ish projects for years. So I had to re-immerse myself in guitar music, rock and roll and metal. I truly love all that stuff, and I love playing guitar. But I don't feel I have anything to contribute on that instrument. I can play adequately and that's it. And living here in Vegas, where there's musicians everywhere and people who've played with this and that guy... The environment is so saturated with "classic rock" and "classic metal". I just did not want to be another one of those 50 years old in skinny jeans, with eyeliner, wearing bandanas to hide a receding hairline and playing the same tired old crap everybody else is playing in every bar in town... So I'm kind of back to focusing on the songs and they seem to come out with the same weird hybrid of genres, with the same weird assemblage of instruments as before all of this. At one point in the past, I had started working on a project for which I had a very clear idea, but I ended up piling up ideas on the side for something completely different - more of a fun things. All the songs were about death, corpses, funeral homes, and such - but with a touch of light hearted humor. And ideas kept on piling up and piling up, probably because I wasn't trying - that's just what poured out of me. There was no room for me to be self-conscious. Almost as if the project gave me the instructions and all I did was assemble material for it. Anyway, it seems to be what I naturally reverted to as a main project. Because that's what comes out naturally. But my vocabulary has developed a bit in the last 10 years, so I have more options to voice those ideas. I am also collaborating with a friend on a heavy, dark, gothic metal project, writing original material for an EP. Actually, for once I don't do the writing, I just play guitar and help with the arrangments and the instrumentation since I am the one who operates the DAW and who's fluent with that stuff. It's nice not to be in charge, for once, and the guy is writing some darn good songs, too. Rain you do have a sense of humor " 50 year olds in skinny jeans". lol. On the other end of it, I would say I don't want to be on the web as yet another wanna be electronic artist whose music sounds like a kid playing with pads. There must be a million of those on soundcloud already. Probably the same way you see the 50 year olds in skinny jeans. " Just another bloke with a synth". TBH I AM just another bloke with a synth. Different for the sake of different might be worse, OTOH sameness can all sound good. I guess it all depends. I think what the world needs is YOU or US as musicians. If that happens to sound similar to someone or something else, so be it. I get into trouble if I start my goals with " I want to sound just like ****** *******" I'm really not concerned what someone else sounds like when I'm making my music. Whenever someone says the drums are "supposed to" sound like this or that or the guitar "should" sound this way.....this is art and if an artist wants to copy another artist, I guess that's their prerogative. This has never been what I'm about. I do look at and admire what many artists do. That doesn't mean I try to copy it. Genre all seem to fall closely within the lines of sounding like a group of artists, much like modern and classical art are different. To be fair, I did say I was thinking about writing some prog rock music, so I put my thinking into a classification because the ideas in that genre were the closest to what I envision. In my mind the music might sound similar to or 'like' what some of the other prog rock bands sound like. I don't really think I will ever reinvent the mouse trap. I've heard some music and productions that are over the top and I know I'll never compete with either those production chops or that talent on some of those levels. If anything, they are a standard to look at for me. Maybe in the process I'll come up with a different kind of mouse trap, not a better one. I can then improve my mouse trap. At the outset something puts the wind in the sails of music, be it an emotional feeling , a technical idea, or both. Some see music as a stand alone art form while others see it as a way to convey something. Most often in modern culture music seems to convey a thought, an idea, or point to something. Something deep within us bubbles to the surface and some of it becomes music if we are musicians. Something about us makes it what it is. Some people's ideologies are so closely tied to the rest of them that the music seems inseparable from who the person is. Do death metal music musicians see their music as a way to express their ways or is it all an act? Most metal bands will tell you it's all an act while others will tell you they are in fact, well invested in that lifestyle. Same could probably be said of religious bands. Many are not associating their beliefs with their music and since many Christian record labels are now owned by secular interests, the Christian music 'biz' is not that different from the Satan music 'biz' There are still the sincere few, but for the vast majority a lot of it on both ends of the spectrum isn't sincere. One thing that isn't often mentioned about some of this- Many who hold certain beliefs are told to or encouraged to lie to cover up what they are, so an artist might laugh it all off in a public interview as nothing more than a theatrical ploy. One aspect of all of that is secrecy to a degree. The public face isn't the private face. If you get deep into some of it, you are doing things against the law so the 'brothers' cover for each other. There's a lot of symbology used in culture I am well aware of. It all says something about something. It's like an undercurrent, an ebb that often indicates the source or origin for a lot of it. I will never ride on a concept I am either not sure of, or am not invested in to sell a song. I will never use any sort of publicity that points to anything I can't support. I will never be associated with anything that is against what I believe intentionally. My mission here as I see it is to love everyone ( brotherly love), no matter who they are or what they have done or haven't done....and you know it really isn't that hard to do for me. Doesn't mean everyone is blood brothers. It just means we all have value in God's eyes. HE sees us as valuable, so should I. The real enemy isn't us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57Gregy Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 Not a dadgum thing. It's as if music doesn't exist, except in my head. Complete lack of any impetus to record or write a song. Or play an instrument. But I am attempting to grow watermelons. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Smith Posted July 25, 2022 Author Share Posted July 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, 57Gregy said: Not a dadgum thing. It's as if music doesn't exist, except in my head. Complete lack of any impetus to record or write a song. Or play an instrument. But I am attempting to grow watermelons. ? At least you're doing something. Edited July 25, 2022 by Tim Smith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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