Migrating from Sonar to Cakewalk

[Joseph Kesselman]

Apologies, but I didn't see this in the FAQ and your discussion search tool didn't filter things down much...

I still haven't cut over from Sonar Platinum to the BandLab version of Cakewalk, because I've been nervous about the risk of losing previously purchased/installed VSTs.

1) Can I have both Sonar and Cakewalk installed at once on a single machine, while I convince myself that I don't lose anything by moving over?

2) Can they share the plugin pool on that machine? The projects directories, including old sample projects? Or should I plan on copying those over manually?

3) Are there any other known issues/hazards in having both installed, other than using a lot of disk space?
 

(I just ran into a .wav file that isn't importing happily into the old Sonar Platinum product, and since there's a chance that this is a bug fixed in BandLab's version I'd be interested in trying it. I'm just trying to determine whether it'd be safer to do so on a new machine.)

[scook]

1. yes, in fact that is recommended so that

2. yes, the plug-ins from Platinum may be available in CbB

3. no, there is not a lot of wasted space, in fact adding CbB to a Platinum install takes up a little more than 500 MB.

Are you sure the wav is not importing correctly? What leads you to that conclusion? While updating to CbB is a good idea, I doubt the import issue will be addressed by the upgrade.

[John Vere]

And to add there’s been hundreds of bug fixes and improvements. 
 

Most of us still have Sonar Platinum installed just to get the plug ins that were included. I even have 8.5. Each version is individual and can’t harm the older versions. It’s no different than installing Cubase and using it too 

[Joseph Kesselman]

Great, just wanted to make sure before pulling the trigger! I've been (very occasionally, I admit) using the Cubase code since long before Sonar; I got hooked by one of the early minimal-function versions, and the reasonable loyal-customer upgrade prices kept me following along. At this point I have a DAW setup that *FAR* exceeds my current needs -- heck, Platinum did that by itself -- and my skills in using it, but I hope to dive in deeper now that I'm retired. Most of my experience is actually small-stage live sound, largely folk and folk-adjacent styles, but I'm starting to learn mastering.

Re the problem: I've never had a problem importing audio into a project before. And I'm really surprised since these are stereo .wav files, which should be absolutely vanilla bytestreams. They're output from a Mac copy of Audacity, which the performer used for recording and a bit of initial mixing. I can play the using just about any other Windows audio app I've tried, But when I open a Basic project and import these files, it's as if every other sample was zeroed. Only thing that has occurred to me is that upsampling might have malfunctioned, but so far I can't imagine why.

I'll reboot, try it one more time, and if it still fails I'll post images and/or clips.

[Joseph Kesselman]

It never pains but it roars...

New problem today: I'm on an oldish Lenovo laptop with Realtek HD audio. When I start Sonar, it's now behaving as if the analog output is not available, and is trying to put me onto the SPDIF side of that driver. Yesterday I was able to use the analog output, but today it's unhappy. The audio profile says the device should support 44.1/16-bit stereo, which is what the project isset to. I haven't found a conflicting program. 

So I'm more than slightly confused. Need to figure this out first. I presume it's self-inflicted somehow, but I'm not sure what I did between yesterday and today to cause it.

On the good side: Despite not being able to hear it, I was able to round-trip (import then export) the .wav file and the result sounded fine in another app. So the garble I was hearing might have been related to audio driver weirdnesses.

Wheee. "If it was easy, they wouldn't need us, right?"

[Joseph Kesselman]

Sigh, ASIO4ALL apparently dropped out and Sonar was trying to use Windows sound directly. Fixing that appears to have resolved all my current confusions.

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Joseph Kesselman

[Byron Dickens]

ASIO4ALL is garbage and CbB specifically recommends against it.

[bitflipper]

Well, you're not wrong, Byron, but "garbage" is perhaps a bit strong. ASIO4ALL does serve a (rather specific) purpose. It's just that 99.9% of DAW users do not need it and should probably avoid it as an unnecessary complication.

As for the "unable to open..." message, that can be misleading, as the problem often isn't any of the reasons the error message suggests. Key question: is it a specific project that won't open, or do you get the message simply by starting up Cakewalk with no project? 

You should be able to use WASAPI with the Realtek. I'm guessing a proper ASIO driver might exist for it as well, given the Realtek's ubiquity. But I'd suggest trying WASAPI Shared initially. That will avoid any potential conflicts with multiple devices trying to own the audio interface.  Unless your "oldish" laptop is running XP or something, in which case you might need to use WDM/KS.

 

 

[Joseph Kesselman]

I needed something; Sonar was being weird about talking to the sound drivers and ASIO4ALL did fix it. And I vaguely remembered having to use ASIO in the past, so that was the straw I grabbed ... and it worked, however ugly it may be.

I can certainly try WASAPI. Instructions seem to be available at https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR&language=3&help=AudioPerformance.29.html assuming those are still vaguely current.

[Lord Tim]

Yeah, those instructions should do the trick. Whenever I use WASAPI with my laptop's Realtek I'm actually getting better performance than some of the "pro" interfaces I've used with proper ASIO drivers.

4 hours ago, bitflipper said:

You should be able to use WASAPI with the Realtek. I'm guessing a proper ASIO driver might exist for it as well, given the Realtek's ubiquity.

There *is* a Realtek ASIO driver but this is legitimate hot garbage and doesn't even meet the basic ASIO specs - definitely do not use this, WASAPI is the way to go with a Realtek.

[John Vere]

w

Edited June 4, 2022 by John Vere

[Byron Dickens]

Here's how to instantly solve 99% of your audio issues:

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces?sb=popular&params=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJQcmljZSBSYW5nZSI6WyIkMTAwIHRvICQyMDAiXX19

[Joseph Kesselman]

Thanks, all. Switched this machine over to WASAPI and it hasn't blown up yet... <grin/>

@bdickens, I *am* moving to a better audio interface -- but that's on the other machine, for now.

(Actually, at some point I expect I'll be looking for a serious mixer-with-full-capture device as part of a stage-and-recording sound kit, but I'm hoping to delay that until the financial market and supply chains have returned to something closer to normal.)

Edited June 4, 2022 by Joseph Kesselman