Yamaha MODX USB audio popping - cakewalk etc

[Joey]

Hi, I've plugged USB audio from my MODX into my desktop PC (i7-12700k, 32gb 3800mhz ddr4 RAM, m.2 and sata ssd hard drives, etc. ) and been trying to get my MODX to get along with various DAWs, but keep running into audio issues, specifically popping/interference type interruptions during playback/recording.

It sounds like static popping, sometimes once or twice, sometimes more at a time, without any specific timeframe between them.  It could be seconds or minutes between occurrences.

The popping is intermittent in both duration and frequency of occurrence.

The pops are relatively minor, but they are imperfections in the recordings that completely override the sound produced for a fraction of a second.  I just can't have that in a recording.

I have confirmed that the popping noise is recorded as part of the sound data by playing it back and hearing the same pop at the same timestamp every time

I have tried in Cakewalk and audacity, the same exact behavior results.  I prefer Cakewalk's interface so it's becoming my main and is my primary reference for the results I'm getting.

Things that make the popping stop (but which have drawbacks):

1. By report, it doesn't seem to occur when not using a DAW, only listening via twitch studio.  However, I can't record this the way I want to, so this is not ideal.

2. Switching audio driver in cakewalk to ASIO, which seems to latch onto the MODX Steinberg driver, seems to make the popping stop.  However, this prevents me from using multiple USB audio recording sources at once (e.g. second keyboard, digital USB interface, etc.)

Things that have made no difference at all:

1. Adjusting Steinberg driver latency and samples buffer size, all settings from the minimum with low latency, up through 2048 samples and stable latency.  Popping occurred the same in all settings.

2. Swapping USB cables and USB ports on the PC.  USB cables with and without ferrite (on either/both ends) Popping same.

3. Adjusting timings/clock settings with wasapi shared driver on cakewalk.  No change.

4. Changing DAWs.  Popping same.

5. Changing PC power management settings to stop USB going to sleep: also preventing cpu system performance from using Intel turbo boost technology (I read somewhere this can cause issues).  No change.

Things that may have made it worse (reversible after stopping):

1. Streaming live on twitch studio with DAW open (at the time I was using a second piano for midi and needed the DAW open for it) seemed to make sound static/popping more frequent.

My goal is to be able to have multiple audio sources (keyboards, voice mics through digital interface, etc.) playing/recording simultaneously without popping noises.  I would like to record without going analog on the piano and synth side mostly because my home studio environment is not ideal for mic recording instruments.  This is why I chose the MODX with USB audio out.

I have several questions:

1. Why is this happening?

2. Can I fix it and still have multiple USB audio connections recording (via wasapi shared or otherwise) For microphone and other sources through digital interface like Focusrite Scarlett, etc.?  This is my biggest challenge.

3. Would other digital pianos/synths no have this popping issue under otherwise similar circumstances?  If not, why not?

4.  I could presumably use the audio out jacks on the MODX to connect to a digital interface, but that defeats the purpose of staying digital (and requires more inputs on the interface).  Is this correct?

Thank you for any help with this!  I have not decided to keep the MODX yet partly because of this audio popping issue.  I may return it to guitar center...

 

I also posted on Yamaha forums today.  I've scoured Google search results since I first ran into the issue,  trying to get useful answers to this very annoying problem... And now I'm asking directly since I couldn't find any solutions that worked without undesirable tradeoffs.  Thank you

Edited April 3, 2022 by Joey

[scook]

To summarize,

• The only MODX audio driver that works properly is ASIO but running in DAWs limit ASIO driver mode to one driver at a time and the MODX is not a good all-around audio interface. A problem shared by guitarist with USB connected amps and owners of USB microphones.
• Running the MODX audio through an audio interface with a decent ASIO driver works too but violates the notion of "staying digital." It is hard to imagine the benefits of keeping an all-digital signal from the keyboard to the DAW, if there are any, outweigh the ease and utility of a dedicated audio interface with a well written ASIO driver.

 

[Joey]

Are you suggesting the simplest path with little or no quality consequence would be to get a USB digital interface (e.g. scarlett 18i20 since technically I need up to 5 inputs for stereo) and just run everything through that, using 1/4" / xlr cables as appropriate?

 

Would it matter that the MODX output is unbalanced?  If I use unbalanced 1/4" cables, because the source is unbalanced, to connect to the USB digital interface, will there any issues?

 

 

[scook]

27 minutes ago, Joey said:

Are you suggesting the simplest path with little or no quality consequence would be to get a USB digital interface (e.g. scarlett 18i20 since technically I need up to 5 inputs for stereo) and just run everything through that, using 1/4" / xlr cables as appropriate?

Yes, FWIW I have never seen a complaint from a user who purchased an interface with more inputs than they needed. OTOH, there are quite a few posts from users trying (unsuccessfully) to solve their lack of inputs by adding a second interface that is not built to run with their main interface or attaching USB connected devices.

27 minutes ago, Joey said:

Would it matter that the MODX output is unbalanced?  If I use unbalanced 1/4" cables, because the source is unbalanced, to connect to the USB digital interface, will there any issues?

 

 

no*2

[Joey]

Thank you for your very helpful responses!  That sounds like a sensible plan, and I'm going to look into it now.

[John Vere]

I'll back up what @scook is saying. ASIO is very limited as far as using multiple devices goes. All sorts of unwanted weirdness can happen if you try and change devices all the time. 

The majority of us who use MIDI hardware sometimes will have it connected with midi cables either USB or Din, but the audio will be handled by an Audio Interface. I use a small mixer to route 3 hardware synths into inputs 3/4 of my interface. So 4 inputs works fine for me.

I have a video about how to choose the correct interface. And I make a point of get what you need for connectivity now and in the future. It's relatively cheaper to get it right the first time. 

 

[Joey]

Thanks, the Scarlett 18i20 has enough preamps for me so that would be my logical pathway

[John Vere]

18 hours ago, Joey said:

Thanks, the Scarlett 18i20 has enough preamps for me so that would be my logical pathway

Good choice. Focusrite has one of the best drivers and dependable track record with Cakewalk. 
And they include more than  $300 worth of goodies too.  Make sure grab them as well as sign up for newsletters which also include giveaways from time to time. 

[Michael Fogarty]

I used an MOX8 and an MX61 with a laptop running VST's for years with no problems, and I am having the same problem as you with my MODX. Works great, leave it for a few minutes, and play again and the sound is horribly distorted. Amazing such an expensive keyboard compared to the MX61 but the interface seems useless. That is one of the main reasons I got it. Very discouraging. I don't need an "all around interface." I just wanted to use it for live or as a portable set-up but it fails. Did you ever get it working?