Steve Moddelmog Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just went through several days of setting up a new DAW - painful. One of the things I've just discovered on my new machine - definitely NOT the way it was on my old machine: if I install both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of plugins, only the 64-bit versions show up in plugin manager and in synths or FXs. All of my 32-bit plugins (for both plugins that ONLY have a 32-bit version and for ones that have 32-bit and 64-bit) are in the same folder. 64-bit plugins have their own folder, as do VST3s. On my "retired" machine (which I replaced just in the nick of time as it will no longer boot), I could see, for example "Wusik Station 9" and "Wusik Station 9 64-bit" in plugin manager and when I would "insert synth." It was actually a little confusing. Now I am trying to load a "not ancient" project where I evidently used the 32-bit version of Wusik 9, I get a "plugin not found" message. I looked in plugin manager and the only instance was the one in the 64-bit VST folder. I tried reinstalling the program being especially careful to install both the 64-bit and 32-bit versions in folders that I have verified are being scanned. I now realize that none of the 32-bit versions of plugins for which I chose to install 32-bit are showing up, although 32-bit plugins that don't have 64-bit versions, all of which reside in the same scanned folder, work fine. I understand the advice to use 64-bit if available, but that is not helpful advice when I'm loading a project like the one I referred to above. Is there a "switch" somewhere that I am missing? I know there's one not to show VST2s if a VST3 is available... Thanks for any help - otherwise, I have a lot of dead projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 AFAIK, there is no logic to suppress 32bit plug-ins during scans. There is logic to replace 32bit plug-ins in projects where possible but the "plug-in not found" message indicates the 32bit and 64bit plug-ins are considered different plug-ins by the DAW so the replacement logic would not happen. One possibility is the 32bit plug-ins need MS libraries that are missing from the machine. Running a VST reset with "Generate Scan Log" enabled from preferences and reviewing the log may supply some clues about why the plug-ins are not getting picked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moddelmog Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 33 minutes ago, scook said: AFAIK, there is no logic to suppress 32bit plug-ins during scans. There is logic to replace 32bit plug-ins in projects where possible but the "plug-in not found" message indicates the 32bit and 64bit plug-ins are considered different plug-ins by the DAW so the replacement logic would not happen. One possibility is the 32bit plug-ins need MS libraries that are missing from the machine. Running a VST reset with "Generate Scan Log" enabled from preferences and reviewing the log may supply some clues about why the plug-ins are not getting picked up. I decided to see what happened if I removed the 64-bit dll from the 64-bit VST folder. When I rescanned, the 32-bit version showed up. So somehow the presence of the 64-bit is suppressing the 32-bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 I am guessing you confirmed this 11 minutes ago, Steve Moddelmog said: So somehow the presence of the 64-bit is suppressing the 32-bit. by adding a 64bit plug-in back and saw the 32bit disappear. Check the scan log after. If it does, try moving the 32bit plug-in to a folder under "C:\Program Files (x86) " and add it to the scan path. Can't recommend running scan logs enough while trying to sort this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moddelmog Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, scook said: I am guessing you confirmed this by adding a 64bit plug-in back and saw the 32bit disappear. Check the scan log after. If it does, try moving the 32bit plug-in to a folder under "C:\Program Files (x86) " and add it to the scan path. Can't recommend running scan logs enough while trying to sort this out. Can you clarify - the 32-bit version already is in a folder under "C:\Program Files (x86)" that is scanned (and 32-bit plugins that don't have 64-bit versions are showing up fine in Cakewalk). I could remove the 32-bit dll, then re-add it / rescan with logging enabled. Is that what you are suggesting? To see what the log says is happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 I thought there were 32bit and 64bit plug-ins in the same folder and 32bit only plug-ins (in some unspecified path) If all the 32bit plug-ins are in "Program Files (x86)" and were not showing up until the 64bit plug-ins were removed, could it be the scanner hung or failed before it got to the x86 folder? This is where a log can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moddelmog Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 9 minutes ago, scook said: I thought there were 32bit and 64bit plug-ins in the same folder and 32bit only plug-ins (in some unspecified path) If all the 32bit plug-ins are in "Program Files (x86)" and were not showing up until the 64bit plug-ins were removed, could it be the scanner hung or failed before it got to the x86 folder? This is where a log can help. I'll give that a try. But I have rescanned many times and literally watched the 32-bit version on V9 flash by like all the other VSTs, with no hang, error message, or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 OK, then I am out of ideas This is when logs may help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Steve Moddelmog said: ....I install both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of plugins.... "Doc, it hurts when I do this...." I get it, you have old projects that use the 32-bit versions. It's just a bugaboo for me, I see so many people struggling with 32-bit plug-ins. So: what is happening with the scans and all that is that the VST spec calls for manufacturers to use the same VST ID code for both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of plug-ins where the manufacturer supplies both. Then the host is supposed to check for duplicate VST ID's and discard the 32-bit versions. I'm sure the thinking behind this was to allow companies like Meldaproduction, iZotope and A|A|S to spew both 64 and 32 versions all over the place and let the host sort it out. So, how do we sort this in your case, where you want the 64-bit versions for projects going forward, but also need the 32-bit versions to open older ones where you will ASAP replace the plug-ins with their 64-bit versions? ? Assuming that we're talking about VST2's, what I would try first is moving your 32-bit plug-ins to their own 32-bit folder(s). You don't want 32 and 64 in the same folder. Also move the 64-bit plug-ins that have corresponding 32-bit versions to their own folder that isn't your main 64-bit folder. At that point, you can choose which you want to use by setting your scan paths and restarting Cakewalk. PITA, but it's the only way I can think of. When going to replace them, it will be difficult, but maybe you can screen cap the UI's of the 32-bitters and copy the settings to the 64-bitters. If some of these plug-ins are VST3, well, that's additional fish in the kettle. Good luck, HTH Edited March 21, 2022 by Starship Krupa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Nelson Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 I've dug out a few old projects from time to time, which contained old plugins that I never carried over when I upgraded to a newer PC. Replaced the plugins "not found" with current plugins that do the same thing. In every case, the results are vastly superior. Remember digitalfishphone....? ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moddelmog Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, John Nelson said: I've dug out a few old projects from time to time, which contained old plugins that I never carried over when I upgraded to a newer PC. Replaced the plugins "not found" with current plugins that do the same thing. In every case, the results are vastly superior. Remember digitalfishphone....? ? I agree with that. What I really want to do is see what presets/ settings I used in the original with the 32-bit and then replace the 32-bit in the project with the 64-bit using the same preset. More recently I've started adding notes with the patch names, but I wasn't always smart about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moddelmog Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 My Wusik 9 example may have been a little wonky, because somewhere along the way there was an update to Wusik 9 where projects with earlier versions of Wusik 9 would not load properly. This project won't load Wusik 9 even if I delete the 64-bit version so that the 32-bit version becomes available. So I'm curious in general (I think I know the answer to this), if I create a project with a 32-bit version of a plugin and then install the plugin's 64-bit version (so that, per the above, I can no longer see the 32-bit plugin in Cakewalk), will the project open with the 64-bit version of the plugin? I'm guessing no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scook Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 Whether a 64bit DAW replaces a 32bit plug-in with a 64bit version is similar to whether the DAW knows that it can replace version 1 of a plug-in with version 2. It is up to the plug-in manufacturer to add the information to their plug-ins. If the 64bit DAW determines there is a suitable 64bit version of a plug-in the DAW will use it instead of the 32bit version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moddelmog Posted March 22, 2022 Author Share Posted March 22, 2022 17 minutes ago, scook said: Whether a 64bit DAW replaces a 32bit plug-in with a 64bit version is similar to whether the DAW knows that it can replace version 1 of a plug-in with version 2. It is up to the plug-in manufacturer to add the information to their plug-ins. If the 64bit DAW determines there is a suitable 64bit version of a plug-in the DAW will use it instead of the 32bit version. Ok, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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