Cakewalk/Realtek/ASIO and Windows 11 ?

[John Vere]

The information I provide in the video is accurate and is something I was taught years ago by trusted members of the forum. 

There are known issues when certain 3rd party ASIO driver " invade" the timing offset calculation Device dialogue. The list I am aware of include Steinberg Generic and Asio4all. Possibly the Real Tech ASIO too.  I have no personal experience with that being invasive, but I do with the first 2. 

There will be a a list with connected devices including your Audio interface.   But you cannot change it. It will return to the invasive device after you hit Apply. 

What this is telling you is the shown device in the box is what Cakewalk is using to calculate Latency. Most certainly this will be inaccurate and a loop back test will prove this to be true.  People who do not record Audio using an interface will not notice, but the rest will have out of sync overdubs. Some people probably don't care but personally I like to be in perfect sync. 

The only known method to avoid this is to remove the unwanted and unneeded ASIO drivers using Reg Edit. 

[Sheds]

Do we think this is a Cakewalk problem?  And not a Windows problem?  Or a driver problem? 

Thanks everyone -- I will watch the video today.  

I do want to say that I am in no way an expert -- I make no such claim -- but I have set up and used Cakewalk or Sonar on multiple computers for multiple years and I have not had this problem. 

[John Vere]

It's hard to say if this is Cakewalk coding issue. I think it's more of an ASIO coding issue. 

Only mystery from what you are saying is why the Reltech driver would still return after you delete it in the Reg Edit app. ?

In my video I show how you can disable all unwanted audio devices which might do the trick. On my main DAW I only have ever used an Audio interface and the supplied ASIO drivers. I've never had to do anything other than disabling the On Board audio in settings. But I did get the Steinberg Generic driver issue after installing an Upgrade to Cubase once and was where I first learned about deleting in Reg Edit. 

Your Steinberg driver is not the same as the generic and is a good ASIO driver. I used it for a few years with a Yamaha Mixer. 

My office computer I have on Realtech board audio and a Scarlett 6i6 interface. I never have issues changing modes to test things ASIO with the Scarlett and WASAPI shared with the  Realtech.  I haven't notice anything different between the 2 devices using Cakewalk or any other apps that use audio. But I never record audio on that machine. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by John Vere

[Sheds]

Ok, so I watched the video and it is a good one.  But, I've done all that.  The only thing I can do now is regedit --- and I am always hesitant to do that.  I've done it.   But it always worries me. 

Are we sure there's nothing else I can do short of that?

And -- even though I have no complaints with my UR242 -- if I updated that to a new interface -- do we think the same problem will be there?

(Also it bugs me that it is necessary -- it certainly wasn't on any other earlier computers I've worked with.)

Thanks everyone.   I genuinely appreciate the help.

 

[azslow3]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

There are known issues when certain 3rd party ASIO driver " invade" the timing offset calculation Device dialogue. The list I am aware of include Steinberg Generic and Asio4all. Possibly the Real Tech ASIO too.  I have no personal experience with that being invasive, but I do with the first 2.

ASIO4ALL can invade computer audio... That I had (btw disabling/removing it not always help, only Windows complete re-install or major Windows update can help in that case, the reason is unclear...).

But I have several ASIO drivers in the system (including Realtek), sometimes active simultaneously. That populates Offset Device dialog and make the selection shown wrong (it selects the first from available, not current). That was never a problem for me.

I repeat, I don't claim there can be no problems with 3d party ASIO drivers. I just claim what is shown in that strangly formatted Cakewalk dialog is not an indication of a problem.

@Sheds before changing the interface, check your computer/settings. In particular: run LatencyMon, it should be under 1ms; check your Power Plan is set to Ultimate (or at least to Performance); till you have proved good power plan, explicitly check USB power saving is off.

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, Sheds said:

Do we think this is a Cakewalk problem?  And not a Windows problem?  Or a driver problem? 

Thanks everyone -- I will watch the video today.  

I do want to say that I am in no way an expert -- I make no such claim -- but I have set up and used Cakewalk or Sonar on multiple computers for multiple years and I have not had this problem. 

The Realtek ASIO driver is the problem.  It doesn't even pass the most basic ASIO tests using the test application in Steinberg's ASIO development kit.

If you're using a Realtek device, use WASAPI Shared if you want to share the device with other apps, or WASAPI Exclusive for low latency.

[Sheds]

1 minute ago, msmcleod said:

The Realtek ASIO driver is the problem.  It doesn't even pass the most basic ASIO tests using the test application in Steinberg's ASIO development kit.

If you're using a Realtek device, use WASAPI Shared if you want to share the device with other apps, or WASAPI Exclusive for low latency.

I get that msmcleod -- I don't want to use it at all -- it just is there, always there even with it disabled.

I will check those settings -- azslow3

Also - I might not care if leaving it the way (assuming the recording was working) if it wasn't making things unstable as explained above. 

Again, thanks for all.

[John Vere]

Only way to know for sure is to perform a loopback test. 

 

[57Gregy]

7 minutes ago, Sheds said:

I get that msmcleod -- I don't want to use it at all -- it just is there, always there even with it disabled.

I will check those settings -- azslow3

Also - I might not care if leaving it the way (assuming the recording was working) if it wasn't making things unstable as explained above. 

Again, thanks for all.

Without reading through the entire thread, what brand of computer is it? Some brands need extra care.

This kinda reminds me of a problem I had in the aughts; I used a Sound Blaster Extigy (yeah, I know, but it was what Best Buy had. And it was a fine device even though there was no ASIO driver for it). The onboard RealTek kept grabbing the audio, no matter how many times I set it to the SB. I eventually deleted the RealTek HD Manager from the computer and all was good. It was an HP Media Center computer, which might have had something to do with it.

[John Nelson]

I need to saw this piece of wood and, all I've got is a hammer. So... if I smash the wood enough times and bust it in half is that good enough?  Same as using a saw, right?

I just don't want to actually go out and find a saw.  Just because, I don't.  

[Sheds]

3 hours ago, 57Gregy said:

Without reading through the entire thread, what brand of computer is it? Some brands need extra care.

This kinda reminds me of a problem I had in the aughts; I used a Sound Blaster Extigy (yeah, I know, but it was what Best Buy had. And it was a fine device even though there was no ASIO driver for it). The onboard RealTek kept grabbing the audio, no matter how many times I set it to the SB. I eventually deleted the RealTek HD Manager from the computer and all was good. It was an HP Media Center computer, which might have had something to do with it.

It's a Dell (desktop) -- AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12 core; Radeon rx6700Xt graphics card -- Steinberg UR242 - latest driver.  Had it a couple of weeks.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Sheds

[Sheds]

1 hour ago, John Nelson said:

I need to saw this piece of wood and, all I've got is a hammer. So... if I smash the wood enough times and bust it in half is that good enough?  Same as using a saw, right?

I just don't want to actually go out and find a saw.  Just because, I don't.  

So, am I the piece of wood or the hammer or the saw?  Or is that the computer?  Or Cakewalk?  Or Realtek? 

Listen, you tell me what saw to use, and I'll go get it.

[azslow3]

I have just checked "Record Latency Adjustment" settings. Cakewalk applies the settings for currently used device. I mean Cakewalk is working correctly (till it mess specified settings after driver mode change, but at least it display these messed settings, so easy to notice and correct when required).

So, "Record Latency Adjustment" for me by default show "BEHRINGER USB Audio" (it is the first in the list). But since at the moment I use "M-Audio FireWire", I have to select it first to change options ("Manual Offset" and "Use ASIO Reported Latency"). Without doing so, keeping "BEHRINGER" selected, changing options has no effect (on M-Audio).

That all could be "as desired", if not a bit misleading fact the number after "Use ASIO Reported Latency:" is always for currently used device, independent which device is selected in the dialog.

I think Cakewalk should show current device and it settings by default (so what it really going to use) and not display ASIO reported number when different device is chosen (since that number is unknown for other devices). That will avoid confusion with this part of the settings.

 

[John Nelson]

1 hour ago, Sheds said:

So, am I the piece of wood or the hammer or the saw?  Or is that the computer?  Or Cakewalk?  Or Realtek? 

Listen, you tell me what saw to use, and I'll go get it.

Sorry, was referring more or less to the OP's post.  You have a Steinberg interface?  It should be more than up to the task, I would think.

Why would anybody struggle with an on-board Realtek sound card using janky drivers? Just get a decent interface with solid drivers and be done with it, is my point.  

[Sheds]

42 minutes ago, John Nelson said:

Why would anybody struggle with an on-board Realtek sound card using janky drivers? Just get a decent interface with solid drivers and be done with it, is my point.  

I get that.  I don't want to use realtek -- I can't rid of it.  I know I can edit it out of the registry -- honestly that always worries me -- though maybe it shouldn't. 

[Lord Tim]

Make a registry backup and do a system restore point before you do it. If you do anything stupid (which is unlikely if you follow the instructions closely), returning your system to the state it was in before the edit is at most a couple of clicks away.

[57Gregy]

21 hours ago, Sheds said:

It's a Dell (desktop) -- AMD Ryzen 9 5900 12 core; Radeon rx6700Xt graphics card -- Steinberg UR242 - latest driver.  Had it a couple of weeks.

And it's Dell that has had some problems in the past... getting it set up right.
Anyone got links to the threads?

[Sheds]

15 hours ago, Lord Tim said:

Make a registry backup and do a system restore point before you do it. If you do anything stupid (which is unlikely if you follow the instructions closely), returning your system to the state it was in before the edit is at most a couple of clicks away.

Check.

[Sheds]

Ok, did it -- seemed to have worked.  Fingers crossed.  Thanks for all the help!

Can I ask an off topic?  I don't want to take up Cakewalk Forum bandwidth so if someone has a quick answer or a place to send me, I will thank you and not follow up.  If this totally inappropriate I apologize and just ignore.

In the last few days with my new computer -- several times a session my windows explorer stops working -- screen background turns black,  nothing else, but I have to restart it.  Easy enough to do -- I created a batch file -- but annoying.  I've searched the webs -- lots of suggestions, none work.  The Dell guys wants me to do a full reinstall of Windows.  I'd really rather not -- I've just spent a lot of time setting it up, programs, all my plug-ins (oh my) etc

Again-- off topic, so I don't expect a discussion but if someone has just a direction -- maybe a forum I can look into -- I will be very very thankful.

Sheds

[azslow3]

Most recommendation from "producer" sounds reasonable (even so for older Windows versions, may be you can find for 10...):
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/error-windows-explorer-has-stopped-working-057f3872-6252-67e3-2c5a-88c9c633fe41

This (and alike) normally helps with many strange system problems (sometimes also cleans system files and improve system performance on "old" installations with many system updates):
https://www.windowscentral.com/how-use-dism-command-line-utility-repair-windows-10-image