Audio Clip Keeps "Shrinking" When I Try To Make It A Groove Clip

[Ian Coleman]

I know I'm missing something obvious here but I've recorded an audio clip. Then I trim that clip to a shorter piece. I want to loop it. If I right-click it, and select Groove Clip Looping, it immediately

Alternatively, I select it and open Clip Properties in the upper left pane. If I check "Stretch To Tempo" the box is checked and the clip has the correct tempo. 

 Obviously I can't drag it out to loop yet, so I check the "Looping" box and it immediately screws up the tempo:

Now the clip appears much shorter in the track view, and it's played sped up. Note the "Original Tempo" has somehow become 126.3 for some reason. (The project tempo is 190.) 

Can anyone explain this bizarre behavior? Driving me crazy.

Thanks!

(Edit: tldr: I recorded a track, snipped out a small section, and now just want to loop that piece, but Cakewalk is kicking and screaming to prevent it.)

Edited February 13, 2022 by Ian Coleman

[chris page]

Hey Ian. I get same with midi clips. Its frusrated me for a long time

 My work around is same as you...ie copy and then paste many times

[Will.]

13 minutes ago, Ian Coleman said:

Groove Clip Looping

Stop here and just drag the clip out.

You can also just highlight the clip press Ctrl+L and drag the clip out. 

Thats it. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Will_Kaydo

[scook]

When a clip changes size after making it a groove clip, it means the beat count (beats in clip) needs adjustment.

[Ian Coleman]

19 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Stop here and just drag the clip out.

You can also just highlight the clip press Ctrl+L and drag the clip out. 

Thats it. 

The second I hit Ctrl+L the "Original Tempo" of the clip changes from 190 to 126.3. And it's grayed out so I can't change it back.

[Ian Coleman]

11 minutes ago, scook said:

When a clip changes size after making it a groove clip, it means the beat count (beats in clip) needs adjustment.

I read this in a couple of places, but can't find anything about *how* to go about that. If I pull up the "Loop Construction" view I get something like:

Surely you can loop a simple audio sample without having to edit a million transients, or whatever?

(Edit: As a workaround I've left it as a non-loopable audio clip and just duplicated it 30 or forty times, but that can't be the best I can do...  )

Edited February 13, 2022 by Ian Coleman

[scook]

Since the OP had the clip inspector open, I figured you would change the "Beats in Clip" there.

In the Loop Contruction View it is the Beats value. 

In the LCV image above the clip is not looped so the Beats value is disabled.

[Ian Coleman]

4 minutes ago, scook said:

Since the OP had the clip inspector open, I figured you would change the "Beats in Clip" there.

In the Loop Contruction View it is the Beats value. 

In the LCV image above the clip is not looped so the Beats value is disabled.

I open that and click "Loop" and now it says Beats is 32. (There's a BPM value right next to it, but it's gray, so I can't just enter 190).

So now I keep clicking the "+" sign next to the Beats value until the BPM value gets as close to 190 as I can get it. (If I set it to 48, BPM is 189.507. If I set it to 49, BPM is 193.455). 

Looks like I can drag this to loop it, and it's (roughly) at project tempo. Thanks!

[Will.]

30 minutes ago, Ian Coleman said:

I open that and click "Loop" and now it says Beats is 32. (There's a BPM value right next to it, but it's gray, so I can't just enter 190).

So now I keep clicking the "+" sign next to the Beats value until the BPM value gets as close to 190 as I can get it. (If I set it to 48, BPM is 189.507. If I set it to 49, BPM is 193.455). 

Looks like I can drag this to loop it, and it's (roughly) at project tempo. Thanks!

Undo all the changes you made in the Inspector as shown in your original post (O.P.) 

There no need to touch those when looping a clip out. 

OR . . . 

If the clip plays alright as it is now. Just right click, scroll down to "Bounce to Clip" then ONLY do a Groove Clip and drag it out. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by Will_Kaydo

[Ian Coleman]

1 hour ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Just right click, scroll down to "Bounce to Clip" then ONLY do a Groove Clip and drag it out. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "drag it out". Drag it out of what to where? 

 

...after bouncing to clip I'm not sure what has changed:

1 hour ago, Will_Kaydo said:

ONLY do a Groove Clip and drag it out

This is where you lost me. If I right-click and choose "Groove Clip Looping" the exact same thing happens. I would expect the corners to be rounded and that I'd be able to pull the clip to extend it as long as I like (i.e. "drag it out"), instead Cakewalk screws up the tempo again. (it's set to 120-something instead of 190).

Edited February 13, 2022 by Ian Coleman

[Will.]

On 2/14/2022 at 12:18 AM, Ian Coleman said:

I'm not sure what you mean by "drag it out". Drag it out of what to where? 

 

...after bouncing to clip I'm not sure what has changed:

This is where you lost me. If I right-click and choose "Groove Clip Looping" the exact same thing happens. I would expect the corners to be rounded and that I'd be able to pull the clip to extend it as long as I like (i.e. "drag it out"), instead Cakewalk screws up the tempo again. (it's set to 120-something instead of 190).

After you've done a BOUNCE TO CLIP, right click on the clip again and scroll to Groove Clip Looping. Drag the clip out -- even if you don't see the corner indicators (this might just be project related.) 

[Ian Coleman]

Hey Will, Thanks for getting back to me.

Quote

After you've done a BOUNCE TO CLIP, right click on the clip again and scroll to Groove Clip Looping. Drag the clip out -- even if you don't see the corner indicators (this might just be project related.)

So, here's the various clip segments...

 

I select all the clip segments and choose Clips -> Bounce To Clips from the "View, Options, Tracks, Clips, MIDI, Region FX" menu. That gets me a consolidated clip that plays fine at the project tempo, etc...

I right-click on the clip, and choose "Groove Clip Looping":

...and the track temp instantly jumps to the higher tempo (you can see how it appears "shorter" here because CW screws up the tempo when it converts it to a Groove Clip). 

If I look at the Groove Clip section of the clip properties pane, here's the before and after:

 

   

(If I uncheck "Stretch to Tempo" here, then select the clip and try to make it a Groove Clip, it makes no difference)

So weird. I guess at this point it's time to file a bug with BandLab?

 

 

[scook]

51 minutes ago, Ian Coleman said:

you can see how it appears "shorter" here because CW screws up the tempo when it converts it to a Groove Clip

On 2/13/2022 at 2:10 PM, scook said:

When a clip changes size after making it a groove clip, it means the beat count (beats in clip) needs adjustment.

It's this simple.

Sometimes CbB beat detection needs a little assistance from the user.

[Ian Coleman]

39 minutes ago, scook said:

Sometimes CbB beat detection needs a little assistance from the user.

Ah, thanks for the clarification!

It seems odd there's no way to tell CW to just make a loop, use the project tempo (it's a normal audio clip, right), and "ignore the beats." Or at the very least, when you go to the Loop Construction View, let you just correct the Tempo field directly rather than guessing at the number of beats that's going to bring the clip up to the desired tempo.

[scook]

46 minutes ago, Ian Coleman said:

It seems odd there's no way to tell CW to just make a loop, use the project tempo (it's a normal audio clip, right)

A normal audio clip has no notion of project tempo. A normal audio clip may be duplicated as many times as needed.

46 minutes ago, Ian Coleman said:

when you go to the Loop Construction View, let you just correct the Tempo field directly rather than guessing at the number of beats that's going to bring the clip up to the desired tempo.

Taking a look in SoundForge (I don't own ACID but SoundForge supports the format), I see two ACID types.

The original ACID Loops used beat count, just like Cakewalk.

The second is called an ACID Beatmapped allows adjusting tempo instead of beat count.

The history of Groove Clips goes back some time, I am not sure if the Beatmapped type was around when Groove Clips were developed.

Cakewalk treats both types of ACIDized files the same.