"Upgraded" to Windows 10, Cakewalk performance has suffered greatly

[Steev]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:08 PM, mdiemer said:

Great conversation, I love this stuff.  Musicians being musicians. and computer experts (if there is there such a thing anymore). I hope the mods aren't tempted to intervene. This kind of stuff pumps life into a forum like this. And it's quite tame compared to other places. Let the show go on!

I agree, except I would agree more if it was busted up into "Multiple" conversations, as in separate threads before it became so off course from the original convertation it morphed into a political conversation based on who has the most friends or bigger dick..

 Jeeze, that's exactly why I don't have a Twitter account. ?

BTW, did anyone even find a solution to @Starship Krupa GUI latency problem with CbB? I almost forgot that was what we were talking about...?

Edited January 20, 2019 by Steev

[Starship Krupa]

26 minutes ago, Steev said:

I agree, except I would agree more if it was busted up into "Multiple" conversations, as in separate threads before it became so off course from the original convertation it morphed into a political conversation based on who has the most friends or bigger dick..

 Jeeze, that's exactly why I don't have a Twitter account. ?

BTW, did anyone even find a solution to @Starship Krupa GUI latency problem with CbB? I almost forgot that was what we were talking about...?

Steev, you should have your own subforum on here! You da MAN!!! Nobody's gonna stop that Microsoft telemetry!!

The weenie wagging in this thread has been ferocious and hilarious. I've lost track of which audio interfaces are supposed to be the best and which way we're supposed to connect them and everything, but it's awesome.

I'm gonna plug my Hocus Pocus by Focus Rite in to my PCIe USB3 Thunderbolt and Lighting very very frightning Galileo PC Manic Depressive fiber optic Window Pro Insider Telemetric Eccentric Octopreamp and then go into the mountains and meditate for a year while my computer stabilizes itself, and then after that my latency is gonna be so low that I won't be able to software monitor because the damn cans will be playing what I'm about to play before I even play it! I'll have NEGATIVE LATENCY!!!!

It confirms my belief that I made the right decision when I bought a pair of Presonus interfaces that were already obsolete when I got them from a guy on Craig's List a couple of years ago. He dropped one of them when he was pulling them out of his storage container, so I got him to knock $20 off the price. It worked when I got it home though. They connect via Firewire 400. I use the built-in preamps. When I was running Windows 7 I could get them to go down to 2ms without going "brrrrrt." Mostly they stayed at 4ms.

My system has settled down since I first pulled an older nVidia GPU that I suspect of having drivers that were too old for Windows 10, and second, turning off Defender's realtime scanning. I want to find an inexpensive replacement for the nVidia, because now the graphics look like poo. Unfortunately, graphics cards are all about 3-D performance and pay no mind to 2-D performance, which is what I am most interested in. I figure the humblest $30 card should be fine for my aging Optiplex, but I don't know what to get.

As for Cakewalk I've been studying that Play lag thing in greater depth with the help of Resource Monitor. It may have something to do with my settings when I'm tracking projects with many takes like my friend Geoff was doing when he was here over the holidays.

I don't want to go into great detail just yet, but this one project of his wound up with 12 tracks. However, each of those 12 tracks had as many as 10 takes that were still sitting there with their lanes muted, clips muted, whatever, in case he changed his mind about comping. When we hit the spacebar to start the transport, Cakewalk (I could see this via Resource Monitor) started streaming audio files that were only in muted lanes and clips. I'm not sure it's supposed to do that. Either that or I'm not sure that Geoff was managing his unused takes correctly. I'm still experimenting with different settings and observing the effect on performance. I will report my findings to the forum when they are more fully found.

[Steev]

@Starship Krupa Ah MANNN..... Now ya made me laugh coffee out of my nostril holes, but that's OK  because all missed my computer keyboard.

 

So umm, did you try "Freezing" all the audio tracks with all those multiple takes and see if that fixes the problem????

OMG could it be that simple? ?

Yep, the possibility exists...……….

Edited January 20, 2019 by Steev

[Starship Krupa]

35 minutes ago, Steev said:

@Starship Krupa Ah MANNN..... Now ya made me laugh coffee out of my nostril holes, but that's OK  because all missed my computer keyboard.

 

So umm, did you try "Freezing" all the audio tracks with all those multiple takes and see if that fixes the problem????

OMG could it be that simple? ?

Yep, the possibility exists...……….

I haven't yet, but I did hit the button that turns off all the effects. What I am doing is systematically deleting those lanes and watching what happens with the response and with the Resource Monitor action.

As I say, still working on it. Thanks for the idea on freezing, I'll have to go back to an early version of the project and give that a try. It would be interesting to see what happens. If the problem really is that it's dragging around too many unused takes, if freezing affects it.

Geoff is a take-a-holic, that's for sure. I have sat him down at the kit and gone back into my shop to work on amps and he's bashed away, I go back in and there are 25 takes of drums piled up, and he wants to keep them all "for comping." That's 100 lanes! Good thing I only use 4 mics! But people like that are great for testing the limits. I'm forever asking him "can I delete these??" It was a real hoot with Mixcraft, which doesn't have collapsible lanes.

[abacab]

6 hours ago, Steev said:

WRONG. You can only turn off Notifications. Windows update ALWAYS runs in the background. Windows 10 Pro allows you to "defer" major version releases. "Defer" i.e. to "put off",

Dude, with all respect, you are just 100% wrong about this.  I have been using Windows 10 Pro for 2.5 years, and Windows never updates until I ask it to check for updates.

There is a policy setting in "Group Policy Editor" that lets you completely 100% disable automatic updating, as well as the notifications.   I have never in 2.5 years had a Windows update that ran without me first clicking on "check for updates". Of course, I always take a full Macrium Reflect image before I push that button.

Group Policy Editor > Local Computer Policy > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > All Settings > Configure Automatic Updates

The text highlighted in blue in the image above explains how the policy works if it is set to "disabled".   I am quoting it here for clarity because it seems that embedded screen captures on this forum have a max width of 400 pixels. Too small to read.

Quote

If the status for this policy is set to Disabled, any updates that are available on Windows Update must be downloaded and installed manually. To do this, search for Windows Update using Start.

Edited January 20, 2019 by abacab

[Jim Roseberry]

9 minutes ago, abacab said:

Dude, with all respect, you are just 100% wrong about this.  I have been using Windows 10 Pro for 2.5 years, and Windows never updates until I ask it to check for updates.

There is a policy setting in "Group Policy Editor" that lets you completely 100% disable automatic updating, as well as the notifications.   I have never in 2.5 years had a Windows update that ran without me first clicking on "check for updates". Of course, I always take a full Macrium Reflect image before I push that button.

Group Policy Editor > Local Computer Policy > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > All Settings > Configure Automatic Updates

The text highlighted in blue in the image above explains how the policy works if it is set to "disabled".   I am quoting it here for clarity because it seems that embedded screen captures on this forum have a max width of 400 pixels. Too small to read.

 

 

 

If you're running Win10 Pro, you can absolutely disable all automatic updates including notifications.

You can do so via the Group Policy Editor... or by adding two Registry Entries.

Once implemented, you have to manually check, download/install all Win10 updates.

We've done this scores of times. 

[kitekrazy1]

11 minutes ago, Jim Roseberry said:

 

If you're running Win10 Pro, you can absolutely disable all automatic updates including notifications.

You can do so via the Group Policy Editor... or by adding two Registry Entries.

Once implemented, you have to manually check, download/install all Win10 updates.

We've done this scores of times. 

Just curious but can you pick which updates to download?  I can't click which ones it's like all or nothing.

[abacab]

20 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Just curious but can you pick which updates to download?  I can't click which ones it's like all or nothing.

You can't pick and choose from the Windows update screen anymore, but you can hide the ones you wish to avoid before checking. Once you check, you will open up the chute for anything that is not hidden from Windows to come rolling downhill, LOL!

Use the little MS utility "wushowhide" to hide unwanted updates.  I have saved a shortcut icon on my desktop for it.

EZ Tutorial for use here: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-hide-show-windows-updates-windows-10-a.html

Edited January 20, 2019 by abacab

[kitekrazy1]

2 minutes ago, abacab said:

You can't pick and choose from the Windows update screen anymore, but you can hide the ones you wish to avoid before checking. Once you check, you will open up the chute for anything to come rolling downhill, LOL!

Use the little MS utility "wushowhide" to hide unwanted updates.  I have saved a shortcut icon on my desktop for it.

EZ Tutorial for use here: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-hide-show-windows-updates-windows-10-a.html

 So often that's the failed new release of Windows.

[abacab]

I find the "wushowhide" utility very useful for allowing the monthly quality & security update to pass, but keeping the latest major feature update hidden until I am ready to upgrade. By hiding the feature  upgrade, I can keep it hidden for as long as I want.

MS will always quietly push out the next major feature updates when they consider them ready, so it is always good to run this utility before checking for any updates, so as not to get blindsided with a major update.

[abacab]

6 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 So often that's the failed new release of Windows.

Yup, I generally hide the new releases for 6 months or more, until MS has published a few bug fix revisions.  That way I am not just another unsuspecting beta tester.

[kitekrazy1]

9 minutes ago, abacab said:

Yup, I generally hide the new releases for 6 months or more, until MS has published a few bug fix revisions.  That way I am not just another unsuspecting beta tester.

  Meaning as they revise the bugs.  Most updates mess up my networking and the only fix is reverting to previous Windows.   The only reason why I see that these problems exist is that the OS is free and they cut the budget by using incompetent developers.  If there is one constant I see in the software world outside of DAW development is poor programming, especially the gaming industry.   Now Apple may be coming to the reality that their stuff is overpriced, that could put another dent in the PC industry.   Even Apple DAW users suffer from the evolving OS.  

Edited January 20, 2019 by kitekrazy

[Grem]

6 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 Apple DAW users suffer from the evolving OS.  

 

They suffer from a lot more than that! :  )

[abacab]

9 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

  Meaning as they revise the bugs.  Most updates mess up my networking and the only fix is reverting to previous Windows.   The only reason why I see that these problems exist is that the OS is free and they cut the budget by using incompetent developers.  If there is one constant I see in the software world outside of DAW development is poor programming, especially the gaming industry.   Now Apple may be coming to the reality that their stuff is overpriced, that could put another dent in the PC industry.   Even Apple DAW users suffer from the evolving OS.  

That is why I always take a full Macrium Reflect image before any OS update/upgrade.  I don't trust MS anymore. But with that image in hand I can roll back to where I was before in just 35 minutes(1).  So if I don't like the update, or something has broken, no problemo!

(1) using an external USB3 drive restoring to an internal SSD SATA drive; image file size 132GB.

Edited January 20, 2019 by abacab

[Jim Roseberry]

Always make sure to have an up-to-date backup image file of the OS (prior to applying any major updates).

If you're under tight deadline or working on a major project, wait for a period of downtime to apply updates/etc.

Most times, there won't be an issue... but there's no reason to take chances.

Edited January 20, 2019 by Jim Roseberry

[ien]

To add some positivity to the negativity surrounding Windows update the first thing i do every morning when turning the computer on is hit the update button. I've done this since moving to 10 from 8.1, about 9 months after they released it. The only issue i've experienced is a BSOD from an outdated graphics drivers, the updating of which fixed the issue. 

[Steev]

AH so I'm guessing that these are concessions admitting that I wasn't 100% wrong about saying that " YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE AND ARE GOING TO HAVE TO UPDATE WINDOWS 10 WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT".

 Your only choices are whether you want to choose to do it "manually" or "automatically", Windows is STILL going to place your updates in a "Temp" file on your hard drive or SSD and it will stay there until you choose to install it. LoL.

 And yes, I have Windows Update set to tell me there are updates waiting for me to install, and it doesn't mention they are already sitting in a Temp File and always asks me if I'm ready to install them.

 Never ONCE has Windows Update stolen my identity, pass on a subliminal message to try to program me into killing my parents or go rogue and shoot up a school yard.

 It rarely gets in my way, so rare I can't remember the last time it did because I always leave my computers running "While I'm Sleeping" for Microsoft's famous "Patch Tuesday" cycles which they have been running for years now.

, And when I wake up, I reboot my computers, whether the tell me to or not, and go have breakfast.

 Sometimes on occasion an update will fail, but that will never stop my computer working properly so it's really no concern to me. By the time I wake up and I'm done with breakfast my entire studio network is up and running and ready for business.

 And while all Ya'all who like to pore over small print contract agreements and fret over your cunning abilities to stopping Windows from FIXING and updating ALL BY ITSELF, know this, that's telemetry in action, and...…………………....

STEEV is too busy running Delirium Studio, from office tasks to producing and making MUSIC to give a FAQ about fretting about having complete control over BS like this. And I don't chase after Unicorns either.

 I would also like to say right off the top that that I AM NOT a COMPUTER GENIOUS. 

 I'm just a guy who can solve all my computer problems by recognizing the difference between "Problems" and  "Conditions". And if I'm lucky enough to realize the differences quickly enough, I can find the time for my hobby, which is to actually work and jam and keep my chops and create my own music projects! :o)))))))))))

 YES!!!  And maybe, if I can figure out how to do it right (enough), I'll even have time for some real fun like post, share, and collaborate with like minded music artists on Bandlab.com.  YEAAA!!

 And I'm very serious about finding the time to have fun, and more times then not it can be as illusive as that Unicorn all Ya'Yawl computer genius control freaks be chasing and thinking you are going to catch by out smarting Microsoft and swapping out audio interfaces every year.. ?

[kitekrazy1]

16 hours ago, abacab said:

You can't pick and choose from the Windows update screen anymore, but you can hide the ones you wish to avoid before checking. Once you check, you will open up the chute for anything that is not hidden from Windows to come rolling downhill, LOL!

Use the little MS utility "wushowhide" to hide unwanted updates.  I have saved a shortcut icon on my desktop for it.

EZ Tutorial for use here: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-hide-show-windows-updates-windows-10-a.html

BTW this will not stop updating a newer version of W10.

[Jim Roseberry]

To further clarify...

If you fully disable all automatic updates (including notifications), Win10 will not automatically download updates to a temp folder.

Nothing is executed without the user starting the process.

[Steev]

On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 8:38 PM, Michael Fogarty said:

well, that was pretty straight coming from you Jim. But Steev, you must realize. There are professionals  on this forum whose main thrust is to keep their machines maintained and running smoothly because they are busy producers. I am one of them, and Jim makes hi - end (I don’t use the term lightly) DAW’s. You are pushing Scarletts and other gear down our throat and we are living in the MOTU/Studio 192/Apogee/ Quantum/RME world. There is a reason they cost more - the same reason that we all shell out $1000’s for the Synthogy Pianos, Omnisphere and Keyscape Plugs, UAD and Waves Plugs and know which company makes our converters. There is no pride in this. It’s just who we are and what our clients expect from us. I think Jim has shown an amazing amount of patience and restraint up to this point. 

Now Jim, the Asian rep of Presonus gave me a Studio 192/DP88 combo and Studio One to make some music on and post. He said the 192 may have problems with Sonar/Cakelab/Cubase and other DAW other than Studio One latency wise.

I have found that to be the case.

But Quantum is different?

Excuse me Michael, but I can only feel these remarks to be yet another series of conflations that does nothing more then hijack the conversation of this thread.

 At times for dealing with conflations, instead of getting offended by pretentious remarks from those who don't know me try to insinuate who and what I am,  my sense of humor automatically kicks in, and I merely become rather factious to any and all that think that they are so smart they can assume that they are smarter then me. So you might want to be care assuming who and what I am, as I've been known to be a rather quick witted "Sharp Tonged Devil" when zeroing in picking on Internet Trolls out of their respective Internet Troll  Dens. Ganging up on me like  a pack of wolves ain't gonna work.

 So please be careful, and lets be friends, because I'm not an angry guy, but I am a comedian, and anyone here wants to have a "War of Wits" please come armed, or just do it on Facebook or Twitter where it belongs because it has no place on a technical forum such as this where pissing contests only distract from real solutions.

 I already knew thing type of crappola was going to kick into overdrive once the old Cakewalk forum got locked out, LoL.

 OK that being said, I'm not pushing Focusrite down anyone's throat, I thought it relevant to the conversation as a reasonably priced alternative upgrade in case a solution isn't found by @Starship Krupa that I know for a fact works quite excellently with any and all Cakewalk DAWs.

 I do NOT, nor do you and your buddy pushing Presonus Quantum know if it is a reasonable solution that will even WORK. I do know it certainly is NOT reasonable or even relevant if you have to buy a whole new rather pricey computer/workstation to diagnose for a solution to the original conversation. Never mind the fact that Presonus themselves clearly states the Quantum is a "Semi Professional" line, "Optimized" for Studio One 4, and as such gives absolutely no latency specs anywhere in their documentation.

 Suffice to say, Cakewalk isn't mentioned anywhere as a supported DAW either, and as a professional, YOU should know that it is not safe to assume it is.

 And I do know exactly why professionals use MOTU and Apogee, and UAD as I have used them for decades on my MAC, as they work quite well with the industry standard, but very picky PRO TOOLS HD! But of course, you and Jim, being the highly successful professionals you claim to be should already know that, Right??

 But do you know that the real beauty of power of using SONAR and Cakewalk by Bandlab as always been you do NOT have to spend 10's of 1000's of dollars on boutique equipment to make it work well enough to record great sounding music and achieve professional results?

 And how great do they sound through a very skinny Focusrite Scarlett that sacrifices all the extra bells and whistles for affordability? Well that completely depends on your skill set and or your ears, a REAL professional  can get the cheapest Scarlett to sound a fat as Phat can sound with ANY DAW including the very, very picky pickyunest of them all PRO TOOLS, and THAT'S a well documented FACT! In fact Scarletts even ship with a free fully licensed, fully functional version of "Pro Tools First" with a full year of full AVID support for free. FULLY functional, but only limited to 16 tracks.

 Does the Presonus Quantum even have support for Pro Tools? I don't know, I  DO NOT CARE because I won't be buying any new Thunderbolt interfaces anytime soon and NEVER for any Windows computers, but as to date, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT because Avid doesn't jump on supporting anything, especially prosumer competition, and if it can't pass the rigorous Avid testing it never will.

And can you guess what kind of audio interface I use for Pro Tools on my Mac? Hint, it's not a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, it costs 4x as much, isn't really any better, and,, ummm,  but...………...

 There are several REASONS why the Focusrite Scarlett is the World's Best Selling audio interface. And one of my favorites is, everyone I know who wasn't happy with there Presonus AudioBox ended up with one and was ultimately happy. Everyone I know who wasn't happy with the limitations of affordable channel counts of their Apogees where all ULTIMATELY DELIGHTED at the cost, sound quality, and performance of the Scarlett 18i20 gen 2, and THEY WILL NEVER LOOK BACK! 

 

And THAT being said, anyone who does not what to hear my generously detailed advice and witty sense of humor is free to BLOCK me from your forum feed.