Redundant Midi Tracks?

[mdiemer]

I recently got Appasionata Synchron Strings from Vienna Instruments. The Synchron synth is a one-instrument synth, so I have one for 1 VN, another for 2 Vn, and so on down to the basses. That is, each synth instance gives you one, and one only, instrument (with various articulations, of course). Usually, my vst's are multi-inst. synths, and I put several insts. on each. I have to use a midi track for each inst, routed to the synth, as usual. But with Synchron, I have found that I can forego the midi track, and treat the synth track as if it were a midi track. It shows up in staff view and I can put clips in it just like a midi track. They will then also appear in event list. So, it looks like I don't need separate midi tracks. They are an unnecessary step, it would appear. But before I go copying all my midi tracks to them, I just wanted to verify that this is in fact OK to do. Incidentally, this would apparently work with Dimension Pro too, as long you use it as a single-inst. synth, which I always do. I like to use the  minimum number of tracks. Fewer things to go wrong.)

[scook]

CbB has two basic track types: audio and MIDI.

To be able to play MIDI through a soft synth and hear the audio result requires at least

• one audio track and one MIDI track or
• an instrument track

An instrument track is not a basic track type. It is a hybrid made consisting of an audio and MIDI track where the DAW

• mostly displays MIDI input controls and audio output controls
• MIDI clips are displayed in the track except when frozen, audio data is displayed in the track when frozen
• MIDI routing to the synth is exposed only in the Track inspector MIDI tab
• the synth audio out 1+2 are set to the stereo audio input.

There are parts of the audio and MIDI track pair that make up the instrument track that are not available when using the pair as an instrument track. To access these features use "Split Instrument Track" option in the track header context menu. This replaces the instrument track with the underlying audio and MIDI tracks.

Any synth using one audio track and one MIDI track may be converted into an instrument track using the track header context menu "Make Instrument Track" option.

[mdiemer]

Thanks scook for that very informative reply. It may take me awhile to digest it (perhaps some manual work is in order) before I decide what to do. It may be easier to just keep doing what I've been doing, to avoid unforeseen future surprises. 

It's remarkable how complex this software is. Like many, I just do things on the fly, figuring it out as I go. fortunately, this forum has very knowledgeable people like you on it to help fill in the gaps (which in my case are many). 

[Robert Bone]

 I never use Simple Instrument Tracks, because I recall folks having different issues with them, little glitches of one kind or another, over the years, so I basically don't trust them (Disclaimer, this may well be an irrational and baseless reaction, on my part).  

Another reason I do not use them, is that I almost always create a separate mono audio track for the left and the right output of any soft synth plugin instance, or for any instrument plugin in a multi-rack instance of a synth like Kontakt.

The reason I choose to do that, it because I want to leave myself the option to treat one side or the other (left or right), with effects, like inserting  a slight delay on one side or the other, or slightly tweaking the reverb on one side or the other.  Maybe lots of folks don't do that, it is just something I have always done for my projects.  I don't always treat one side differently - I just like to leave myself the option to do so.

Bob Bone

[Robert Bone]

I forgot to add that I use multi-rack soft synths, such as Kontakt and Play, in virtually every project I do, and invariably I load multiple instruments into a single instance of each - usually things like Piano, Strings, Bass, and possibly Organ.  It has been about two decades since I played around with Simple Instrument Tracks, but to the best of my recollection, there was something problematic or at least annoying, about trying to use them in such a situation.  I cannot guarantee that is correct - it has been forever since I have even attempted to use SIT's in a project, but anyways, even for just the reasons I had posted earlier, I stay far away from them.  If they work for you and you like them, knock your socks off and go for it - I will just continue to avoid them myself. 

Bob Bone

[Robert Bone]

On 4/30/2019 at 11:14 AM, mdiemer said:

Thanks scook for that very informative reply. It may take me awhile to digest it (perhaps some manual work is in order) before I decide what to do. It may be easier to just keep doing what I've been doing, to avoid unforeseen future surprises. 

It's remarkable how complex this software is. Like many, I just do things on the fly, figuring it out as I go. fortunately, this forum has very knowledgeable people like you on it to help fill in the gaps (which in my case are many). 

There are also ZILLIONS of little short videos, available on YouTube, that cover just about every aspect of how to do things in Cakewalk (and many of the Sonar ones still apply, too).  This software is quite feature rich, as are all of the DAW product choices - I happen to have been using Sonar since the prehistoric days of DOS and Twelve Tone Systems, and I can do things without much thinking in Cakewalk, and I like it.  I also have Studio One, Ableton, Pro Tools, etc., but my most preferred choice is Cakewalk by Bandlab.  I am profoundly happy that they have been continuing to maintain and develop this wonderful tool.

Bob Bone

[JoseC]

I use hardware synths, too, so my template includes a number of midi only tracks. This is why I tend to split single instrument tracks as soon as the project has reached a certain size and keep midi and audio tracks separate. 

[Tezza]

I don't think there is any reason to be scared of instrument tracks, I moved from Studio One which only has them, no midi tracks specifically as separate from instrument tracks. I don't even use Kontakt as a multi-instrument, just open as many instances of kontakt as I need. I do not do orchestral work or have a massive instrument track count though, probably 15-25 tracks maximum virtual instruments (not all kontakt) , the rest would be guitars which are recorded audio or amp sim 6-8 tracks and then vocals 6-10 tracks, drums 8 tracks.

I use instrument tracks exclusively in CbB and have not had any problems with them. I would like to use midi tracks though if I can find out why I should use them in my projects.

[msmcleod]

18 minutes ago, Tezza said:

I don't think there is any reason to be scared of instrument tracks, I moved from Studio One which only has them, no midi tracks specifically as separate from instrument tracks. I don't even use Kontakt as a multi-instrument, just open as many instances of kontakt as I need. I do not do orchestral work or have a massive instrument track count though, probably 15-25 tracks maximum virtual instruments (not all kontakt) , the rest would be guitars which are recorded audio or amp sim 6-8 tracks and then vocals 6-10 tracks, drums 8 tracks.

I use instrument tracks exclusively in CbB and have not had any problems with them. I would like to use midi tracks though if I can find out why I should use them in my projects.

+1

Same here.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 5/15/2019 at 10:34 AM, Tezza said:

I use instrument tracks exclusively in CbB and have not had any problems with them. 

Me too, never had an issue..also use Kontakt as a one instrument only plugin..just load more instances if I have more instuments

 

[abacab]

I would suggest learning both ways to do it. It will make troubleshooting easier down the road if you run into issues with routing MIDI data.

Plus it will better enable you to take advantage of multi-timbral, multi-out plugins where they make sense to use. Then just choose what you need for any project.

[mdiemer]

The reason I use multi-timbral synths is I write for orchestra. As with much of what we do, there usually are many ways to peel the potato. Whatever works is the right way.