Time for me to upgrade - scaryxpensive

[Kalle Rantaaho]

I've come to the point when I can't avoid starting to plan a total upgrade. The power unit of my trusted xp-combo (see signature) died of old age, and that surely is a sign of other kinds of troubles approaching, too. 

I'm curious to know any heads-up info  that might be useful in the operation, especially conserning the updates of the VSTi's, or any incompatibility problems.

As I haven't updated the system in over ten years (it's off-line), I won't  get any  update discounts, and most likely also the audio interface
E-MU 1820 will be unusable in Win11 (?).  Not being in the working life anymore, most likely I'll have to settle  for something less or cheaper.

So, if there's anything weird you know about Kontakt, Melodyne, Ozone, Addictive Drums  etc  or anything that might cause surprises in moving from XP/32 bits  to WIN11/64 bit  and SONAR 8.5 ( ? )  I'd be glad to know. I do have the  8.5 DVD so I suppose I can get it installed and activated somehow, too.

I don't even know if my backup HDDs used in the 32bit system will be usable in  64 bits!

 

[msmcleod]

I've got SONAR 8.5 installed on a 64 bit machine, alongside 64 bit versions of X1, X3, Platinum and CbB.

I've not had any issues, but I would recommend installing them starting with the oldest SONAR version first to avoid potential issues with common components.

You shouldn't see any issues with VST plugins, but you may well get issues with DX plugins.  32 bit DX plugins / DXi synths will not load in a 64 bit program.  You'll need to replace these with their 64 bit counterparts manually.

[scook]

Have not looked at Win11 yet but Win10 has been just fine.

Make sure to install both 32 and 64bit versions of SONAR 8.5 and patch it before adding CbB (assuming CbB is part of the plan).

Having both 32 and 64bit versions of SONAR installed will help when moving old projects to 64bit.

The same holds true for plug-ins.

[user 905133]

35 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

. . . and most likely also the audio interface E-MU 1820 will be unusable in Win11 (?). 

Under Win 10 I found that the only thing that has worked on my E-Mu 1010 PCI Card was the firewire port.  IIRC Win 10 version 1909 was either the last version that supported PatchMix DSP or it was the first one that killed it.  There is a KVR thread that documents how to hack later updates, but I was unable to get it to work.  Not sure there are hacks for Win 11--if you can find a Win 11 PC that can handle the E-Mu system.  (Let me know if you find one.)

BTW, I still have an E-Mu 1010/1820 Audio Dock system working on an XP SP3 PC.  If your XP's mobo hasn't been fried by the power supply issue, perhaps you could find a no cost/low cost power supply and use the E-Mu Digital Audio System to feed audio to any new PC upgrade you might get.

On the other hand, if you find a newer, reasonably priced audio/midi interface that comes close to the flexibility of the E-Mu's Patchmix DSP with comparable audio quality (esp. to the 1820M Dock), let me know.

[Byron Dickens]

If anyone wanted to know a good reason for staying reasonably up-to-date, here it is.

[Craig Anderton]

Power supply failures are fairly common, and easy to fix. The supplies themselves aren't very expensive. Its failure doesn't mean you're going to have more hardware problems, although of course, items like hard disks can do only so many rotations. Like a vintage automobile, over time it becomes increasingly difficult to keep an older machine maintained.

What I'd recommend is go ahead and replace the power supply AND get a new machine. Then you can migrate files, .dlls, and the like over time. You will run into issues, but you'll still have the older computer available to get work done. 

Back when removable drives were common, I'd create a new system drive and work with the new drive/OS for a while to re-build the system, and then go back to the old drive when I needed to get work done. Eventually, the new drive took over. In my most recent switch to a new computer, I networked them with an ethernet cable, and that make transferring files easy. 

I HIGHLY recommend that when you set up your new computer, you maintain files with key codes, site passwords, note about installation, zip files you downloaded with executables, etc. Keep all these on their own hard drive. Then if you ever need to re-build your system, you can do it in hours, instead of weeks.

Good luck! You'll be blown away by how fast and wonderful new computers can be

 

 

[Kalle Rantaaho]

Thanks for advice and participation everyone!

The power supply is replaced and the machine is working, but I'll get a new machine anyway. It's too obvious, that something else fails in relatively near future. The setup is over 15 years old, IIRC, except for the HDDs which I replaced when they were seven years old.

CbB is part of the plan, yes.

Does the 32 bit SONAR 8.5 and VSTs  work quite normally on a 64 bit system?  
Does the per project update to 64 bits work so, that in CbB I open a project made in 32 bits, update the VSTs and whatever, and then simply save it?

I'm aware of that 32 bit plugins can sometimes be problematic with 64 bit SONAR or CbB no matter what adapter app you use.

Does Dimension Pro work in CbB? 

@bdickens: Yes, being reasonably up to date would have been practical. But having finally got a set up that works without any hickups, and already feeling guilty for spending too much money on a hobby the fruits of which only I can enjoy, I just decided to zip my wallet come what may. Especially because the next step would have inevitably required a totally new machine switching to 64 bit OS.

[rsinger]

4 hours ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

I'm curious to know any heads-up info  that might be useful in the operation, especially conserning the updates of the VSTi's, or any incompatibility problems.

If the old HW still works uninstall/free up any SW license that are tied to that machine that you don't need when you get the new machine setup. That's more important if you keep a dual setup - DAW and laptop.

[Kalle Rantaaho]

2 minutes ago, rsinger said:

If the old HW still works uninstall/free up any SW license that are tied to that machine that you don't need when you get the new machine setup. That's more important if you keep a dual setup - DAW and laptop.

I wonder how freeing licenses and installing the updates in the new machine is done as the old machine is (has always been) off-line. Well,  I'll find out.

[scook]

51 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

Does the 32 bit SONAR 8.5 and VSTs  work quite normally on a 64 bit system?  

Yes and the DAW and plug-ins install in separate 32bit folders.

The do share the same user directory and Cakewalk Content folders as 64bit SONAR 8.5.

51 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

Does the per project update to 64 bits work so, that in CbB I open a project made in 32 bits, update the VSTs and whatever, and then simply save it?

Projects themselves are not 32 or 64bit specific.

If a project is opened in a 32bit DAW it will use 32bit plug-ins if available.

If a project is opened in a 64bit DAW it will first try to load 64bit plug-ins and fall back to bridged 32bit plug-ins if available.

There have been a lot of new features added since SONAR 8.5. When opening an old project in CbB you may want to save as a new project immediately before making changes. This will preserve the original 8.5 version and allow you to take full advantage of CbB.

51 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

I'm aware of that 32 bit plugins can sometimes be problematic with 64 bit SONAR or CbB no matter what adapter app you use.

32 to 64bit bridges were developed to give users and developers time to transition away from 32bit software. BitBridge does an OK job. JBridge is an inexpensive 3rd party bridge that works better in some cases. Bottom line, when running a 64bit DAW the best solution is use 64 bit plug-ins whenever possible.

51 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

Does Dimension Pro work in CbB? 

Yes. Dimension Pro is a 32 and 64bit DX/VST plug-in that works in any DX or VST host including CbB. It can be a little tricky if you have projects with the DX format. But it is possible to have the DX and VST formats installed at the same time. The DX format was discontinued and the VST 1.5 update was released years ago. The update is still on the old Cakewalk website. Since you had a valid sign-on when Cakewalk shut down, you can still access all the update downloads from that site.

All the plug-ins that are installed with the 64bit version of SONAR 8.5 should work in CbB (although you have missed a few bug fixes from the SONAR X-series).

39 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

I wonder how freeing licenses and installing the updates in the new machine is done as the old machine is (has always been) off-line. Well,  I'll find out.

Cakewalk licenses will be OK. Celemony and XLN Audio count activations. They both allow 2 concurrent activations.

[Bill Phillips]

4 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Under Win 10 I found that the only thing that has worked on my E-Mu 1010 PCI Card was the firewire port.  IIRC Win 10 version 1909 was either the last version that supported PatchMix DSP or it was the first one that killed it.  There is a KVR thread that documents how to hack later updates, but I was unable to get it to work.  Not sure there are hacks for Win 11--if you can find a Win 11 PC that can handle the E-Mu system.  (Let me know if you find one.)

BTW, I still have an E-Mu 1010/1820 Audio Dock system working on an XP SP3 PC.  If your XP's mobo hasn't been fried by the power supply issue, perhaps you could find a no cost/low cost power supply and use the E-Mu Digital Audio System to feed audio to any new PC upgrade you might get.

On the other hand, if you find a newer, reasonably priced audio/midi interface that comes close to the flexibility of the E-Mu's Patchmix DSP with comparable audio quality (esp. to the 1820M Dock), let me know.

Are you saying that you can't use your firewire interface with Windows 10? My firewire MOTO 828 mkII is working fine though I did need to replace my firewire card at some point.

[user 905133]

Just now, Bill Phillips said:

Are you saying that you can't use your firewire interface with Windows 10? My firewire MOTO 828 mkII is working fine though I did need to replace my firewire card at some point.

No. Sorry if I wasn't clear.  After a Win 10 update a year ago (+ or -), the only thing that worked on the E-Mu PCI Card was the firewire port/driver. 

The ability to use audio via E-Mu's Patchmix DSP routing/mixing software was the first thing ruined by a Windows update.  I could still use it for ADAT/Clock functions.  Not sure but s/pdif clock might have also worked.

Later on, another Win 10 update killed my ability to use the E-Mu's ADAT port for clock/sync.

So, the only thing I use the E-Mu card for is to drive a firewire audio/midi interface/mixer (FW-1884). Knock on wood, Windows hasn't killed the firewire pass-through functionality (yet).  

[rsinger]

43 minutes ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

I wonder how freeing licenses and installing the updates in the new machine is done as the old machine is (has always been) off-line. Well,  I'll find out.

It depends on the vendors. Some let you manage license from any machine, with others you may have to contact their support.

[slartabartfast]

Win 10 end of support is coming October 14, 2025.  If you are buying a new computer, take the time to verify that it will run Windows 11. You cannot assume that any machine you find for sale as "new" will have the capability of running Win 11. There are machines that have not been sold  yet that will not, and some of these will look like super bargains because the seller is trying to dump them before they spoil.  Of course if you are planning to stay offline and run a defunct OS for another decade, one of these "old" new machines might be what you want. In that case waiting is likely to only bring the price down as buyers become more aware of the problem they will face in four years.

[Byron Dickens]

5 hours ago, Kalle Rantaaho said:

@bdickens: Yes, being reasonably up to date would have been practical. But having finally got a set up that works without any hickups, and already feeling guilty for spending too much money on a hobby the fruits of which only I can enjoy, I just decided to zip my wallet come what may. Especially because the next step would have inevitably required a totally new machine switching to 64 bit OS.

I hear ya. I say what I say because I've been down that road and it is one major league PITA when that upgrade finally forces itself....

[JoeGBradford]

1 hour ago, slartabartfast said:

Win 10 end of support is coming October 14, 2025.  If you are buying a new computer, take the time to verify that it will run Windows 11. You cannot assume that any machine you find for sale as "new" will have the capability of running Win 11. There are machines that have not been sold  yet that will not, and some of these will look like super bargains because the seller is trying to dump them before they spoil.  Of course if you are planning to stay offline and run a defunct OS for another decade, one of these "old" new machines might be what you want. In that case waiting is likely to only bring the price down as buyers become more aware of the problem they will face in four years.

great advice!

[RBH]

2 hours ago, JoeGBradford said:

great advice!

Yea- but do you think Win 11 will work as well as XP ?   That is the question ! I'm still on Win 7 - it's finally starting to work as well as XP  - now that updates are off the table.