Muted Waveforms still Audible on Export/Bounce

[Wong Jian Ming]

I'm back again with another bug/issue I found.

I'm editing a podcast and I've noticed that there are sections of audio which are muted but are still being played back on export. 

On playback in the DAW, it sounds fine with the muted waveforms being actually muted, its only when its exported when the mutes no longer take effect. 

The below video demonstrates this clearly, and I've also attached the project file incase its of any use.

Edit (28 Aug): the project file has been sent to the Cakewalk team and they were able to reproduce the bug on their end albeit being intermittent. 

 

 

podcast issue.cwp

Edited August 28, 2021 by Wong Jian Ming

[Xoo]

What are your export settings (in the export dialogue)?

IIRC, you need to have Clip Automation checked for individual clip mutes to be taken account of.

[Wong Jian Ming]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Perry said:

What are your export settings (in the export dialogue)?

IIRC, you need to have Clip Automation checked for individual clip mutes to be taken account of.

Yup its definitely all checked, here's the screenshot from the video

[Xoo]

Pass then - sorry!

[Bill Phillips]

5 hours ago, Kevin Perry said:

What are your export settings (in the export dialogue)?

IIRC, you need to have Clip Automation checked for individual clip mutes to be taken account of.

Look for pre-fader sends which aren't muted by  mute. 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

Have you tried using the " What You Hear " option ? ☺️

Edited August 16, 2021 by Mark Morgon-Shaw

[bitflipper]

That does indeed look like it could be a bug. Unfortunately, I was unable to duplicate it.

I followed your (excellent!) video as closely as possible, first overlaying two clips and then muting one of them via the clip context menu. Then I bounced to a new track. The muted clip was not included in the bounce, having been ignored completely, as expected.

Does it act the same way if you bounce to clips rather than to a new track? By that I mean select all clips, right-click on a clip and choose "Bounce to Clip(s)". Technically, it's the same as bouncing to another track except the new clip stays in the original track.

 

 

[Wong Jian Ming]

1 hour ago, Bill Phillips said:

Look for pre-fader sends which aren't muted by  mute. 

deleted the post-fader send on the bus but the issue is still there.

24 minutes ago, bitflipper said:

That does indeed look like it could be a bug. Unfortunately, I was unable to duplicate it.

I followed your (excellent!) video as closely as possible, first overlaying two clips and then muting one of them via the clip context menu. Then I bounced to a new track. The muted clip was not included in the bounce, having been ignored completely, as expected.

Does it act the same way if you bounce to clips rather than to a new track? By that I mean select all clips, right-click on a clip and choose "Bounce to Clip(s)". Technically, it's the same as bouncing to another track except the new clip stays in the original track.

 

 

Bounced to clip works fine, the section is now blank in the track and does not have any audio if were to export that same section out.

I also tried moving the audio clip with the muted waveform to a clean, new track and tried bouncing that section out and it worked just fine.

 

However, moving the clip back to the original track resulted in the same issue, seems there is something bugged out with these tracks that seem to ignore the waveform mutes only when exporting the audio out...

edit: tried doing the above a few times but on some occasions, the audio is present despite being muted...

Edited August 16, 2021 by Wong Jian Ming

[reginaldStjohn]

Maybe send a copy of your project to support to see if they can reproduce it.

[David Baay]

This looks similar to an issue i reported a long time ago (like 8 years!) that soloing a lane overrides clip muting. I was told this is expected behavior to facilitate auditioning a muted clip. I didn't really think that made sense at the time, but so be it.  In my case, it affected playback as well as bounce/export.

In any case, unless i missed it, your video never shows lanes. Any chance the lane of the muted clip is soloed?

[bitflipper]

I had a similar puzzle once. It turned out there was a duplicate clip buried behind the "real" one. That's why you need to examine the project - it could turn out to be something totally unexpected.

[Wong Jian Ming]

On 8/18/2021 at 1:41 AM, bitflipper said:

I had a similar puzzle once. It turned out there was a duplicate clip buried behind the "real" one. That's why you need to examine the project - it could turn out to be something totally unexpected.

I've actually checked this and tested stacking two clips on top of each other in the same take lane. When you do the mutes on the waveform, on playback the clips are actually muted.

Even if there is a duplicated clip buried behind the real one, on playback I should hear something, but in this case, I don't and only hear the stacked sound on export.

[David Baay]

Okay, my second guess is that you're exporting 'Entire Mix', and you have a send of that track (or the first bus it hits) to a second hardware out (maybe via another bus), like a headphone mix. What you hear in your monitors is only the master bus coming through the main outs, but what you get on export is a mix of the main outs and that other hardware output.

Try exporting with Source=Buses, and select only the Master bus.

EDIT: Hmmm... just looked back at your screenshot and see you have only one stereo output. But I would still recommend you export only your Master bus. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by David Baay

[Noel Borthwick]

Can you share a copy of the project that has the issue? Include the audio data.

[David Baay]

1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Can you share a copy of the project that has the issue?

Hey, no fair, and where's the fun in that? The (unwritten) rules of the forum say you have to figure stuff out without being able to look at the project directly.  ;^)

[bitflipper]

My troubleshooting methodology for issues such as this: start stripping the project until the problem either goes away or you're left with a single track, no fx and the problem is still there. 

If the problem goes away during the process, you'll have identified - or at least greatly narrowed down - the cause. If it doesn't go away, you now have a minimal project that illustrates the problem. If you reach that point, send that minimal project to Noel & company. Or post it so the rest of use can have a look.

[Wong Jian Ming]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:30 AM, bitflipper said:

My troubleshooting methodology for issues such as this: start stripping the project until the problem either goes away or you're left with a single track, no fx and the problem is still there. 

If the problem goes away during the process, you'll have identified - or at least greatly narrowed down - the cause. If it doesn't go away, you now have a minimal project that illustrates the problem. If you reach that point, send that minimal project to Noel & company. Or post it so the rest of use can have a look.

I've actually done that and stripped it down to only 1 track and the audio clip. 

I copied the audio clip into an entirely new project file on the same computer and observed two different behaviors (you can see from the video below):

1) if i were to bounce a specific range/region = the problem happens

2) if I were to select the affect clip and do the bounce = the problem disappears

I've actually tried replicating this issue on another computer (Intel laptop i7 6700HQ) with this same project file, but could not replicate the issue. The problem still persists on the affected computer (Ryzen 3600). I've also tried resetting the config file in the affected computer but the problem still persists.

I've sent the project file in question to Noel separately.

 

[Will.]

Is this solved yet? Lookig at this: it seems you still have the voices solo'd when you playback the bounced track with the recorded clips. This sometimes creates a latency issue in playback until you stop the plackback, mute all other tracks - and only listening to the bounced track.