MIDI Input Not Recording or Showing in Track

[John David Ross]

I'm trying to add a Dimension Pro Synth into a project and the MIDI data track doesn't show up when I'm recording. The MIDI sound wave shows up though. I think I have something setup wrong in the Insert Soft Synth Settings. It's been a while since I've used soft synths. Thanks for any suggestions.

Edited August 16, 2021 by John David Ross

[John Vere]

Your settings look correct if you wanted to have separate midi tracks and then instrument tracks. Are you recording to the midi track?  You will only get a wave form if you recorded to the instrument track by mistake 

It’s a little used option  most people want midi as data so they can edit 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by John Vere

[bitflipper]

Try inserting the synth with just "MIDI Source" and "First Synth Audio Output" checked. See if that works.

Dim Pro isn't actually a multi-timbral synth, but does allow layering. Are you trying to direct each layer to a separate track? I don't know if that's even possible, but it would be the only reason I can think of for using multiple mono audio outputs with this instrument.

[John Vere]

I’ve actually switched to the new add track method and started using simple instrument tracks.

I was a die hard fan of having separate midi and instrument tracks  Now I see the simple instrument track makes perfect sense to me for things that only use one midi track source  

I missed that the op was using Dim Pro. Ya it only uses one stereo output. 

[John David Ross]

 

9 hours ago, John Vere said:

Your settings look correct if you wanted to have separate midi tracks and then instrument tracks. Are you recording to the midi track?  You will only get a wave form if you recorded to the instrument track by mistake 

It’s a little used option  most people want midi as data so they can edit 

 

I don't need or want the wave. I only want the midi as data like you described. That is what I can't get to come out. It used to be so easy but I haven't done it in so long. Still can't get it to work with all of the above suggestions.

[John Vere]

This is sort of obvious but I do have to ask. You are connected to the keyboard controller with a midi cable?  Not audio?  
If you insert a midi track, select your controller as the input does that record midi?

[abacab]

10 hours ago, John David Ross said:

 

I don't need or want the wave. I only want the midi as data like you described. That is what I can't get to come out. It used to be so easy but I haven't done it in so long. Still can't get it to work with all of the above suggestions.

Just insert the synth as a simple instrument track, and ensure that your MIDI controller is connected to the track just like John said, and you should be good to go!

The simple instrument track is set up to just show you the MIDI data recording, but you will be able to hear the synth audio output through the Cakewalk audio outputs when you play.

 

Edited August 17, 2021 by abacab

[John David Ross]

I never got this to work. I'm connecting my M-Audio Keystation via USB to my PC. 

 

[scook]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:35 AM, bitflipper said:

Dim Pro isn't actually a multi-timbral synth, but does allow layering. Are you trying to direct each layer to a separate track? I don't know if that's even possible, but it would be the only reason I can think of for using multiple mono audio outputs with this instrument.

The multi-timbral setting is in options

Except for testing, I have never used the multi-timbral setting.

I always used the First Synth Audio Output for DP but any of the audio options work with it. 

On 8/16/2021 at 10:15 AM, John Vere said:

You will only get a wave form if you recorded to the instrument track by mistake 

Instrument tracks only record MIDI data. They will display audio when the track is frozen.

When using a MIDI+audio track pair, and unlike an instrument track, it is possible to enable waveform preview or actually record audio on the audio tracks without recording MIDI data.

If the plug-in is making sound, there is MIDI data coming from somewhere and if the MIDI track record button is enabled, the MIDI data will be recorded. The exception being punch recording. When punch recording is enabled, MIDI will only be recorded as defined in the punch module but the waveform preview, if enabled, is always displayed.

[John Vere]

4 hours ago, scook said:

Instrument tracks only record MIDI data. They will display audio when the track is frozen.

It's a terminology issue here.

I call Track 1 a Simple instrument track.  It will record only midi data in it's lane but it is also the Audio output for the instrument. These seems to be it's official name as far as all documentation goes. 

I call Track 2 an Instrument track because that is all it is. an instrument Audio output track. It may also be called a Split Instrument Track.   It will record  audio into it's lane, not midi data.  Its a way to record what you are hearing generated by the instrument and played from a keyboard controller, external midi source or midi loopback. But most use it in conjunction with the needed midi track which here is represented by track 3.   

I guess we can wait another 6 months for a response from the OP ?

[scook]

33 minutes ago, John Vere said:

I call Track 2 an Instrument track because that is all it is. an instrument Audio output track. It may also be called a Split Instrument Track.   It will record  audio into it's lane, not midi data.  Its a way to record what you are hearing generated by the instrument and played from a keyboard controller, external midi source or midi loopback. But most use it in conjunction with the needed midi track which here is represented by track 3. 

I am familiar with the term synth track as an alias for an audio track with a synth as its input; the documentation uses the terms "simple instrument track" and "instrument track" interchangeably (cf. https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=SoftSynths.05.html for hundreds of examples search the user guide for instrument track). 

Using "instrument track" as an alias for synth track is confusing.

On a slightly related subject, search the user guide for PVR and PRV.

 

[John Vere]

This is the first time I've hear that term used.  Interesting.     the page you linked I cannot see the pictures,  And yes I have Cakewalk.com  allowed  in both Chrome and Edge on all my computers.   

 

This line here is where the confusion lies for me----

Synth tracks are distinguished by the synth icon to the right of the track number.

  If I could see the picture it would seem it would be the one from my screen shot as Track 1. The one we call  a Simple Instrument track?    

Bottom line is Cakewalk has never really given the 2 types of instrument tracks clear labels.  It's frustrating for me making tutorials as I try real hard to use correct terms for features as I talk about them. Usually the Help Module will correctly label features and icons. But below you'll see they actually call the Split Instrument track an Audio track,  why is that?  an Audio track we would assume is for recording audio, not midi???   Of course it is technically an Audio track but why not label it with a title that clearly defines it's purpose?  

 

[scook]

If you cannot see the images on the website, refer to the user guide pdf.

The "synth icon" is the icon used in track two of your post.

The terms "instrument track" and "split instrument track" are part of the normalization of simple instrument tracks in the documentation.

As I mentioned above an instrument track is a SIT.

The relatively recent addition of "split instrument track" refers to the MIDI+audio track pair used by a synth. It could also be referred to as a MIDI+synth track pair but this is a little confusing.

Remember the only track required for a synth plug-in is an audio track, in the form of an audio track (synth in the FX rack), synth track or the audio track in a (simple) instrument track.

A synth plug-in must have an audio track even if it does not generate audio, however; the MIDI track is optional. Although it is very common for synth plug-ins have some type of MIDI track sending data to the plug-in.

[David Baay]

i agree with the terminology that a Synth Track is an audio track with a synth assigned to the input, but the icons for Synth and Instrument tracks have been reversed since  X1. Back in in SONAR 7 before Instrument tracks were introduced, the Synth Track icon looked very much like the current Instrument Track icon. When instrument tracks were introduced, the MIDI port was added to the icon to indicate the new track type, but this got mixed up when Skylight was introduced in X1.

I reported it, but could not get the gatekeeper at the time too acknowledge that it was wrong and forward it to the devs.

Swapping these icons  is the one change that I make to the default Mercury theme because it's always bugged me that they're backwards.

[John Vere]

8 hours ago, David Baay said:

Swapping these icons  is the one change that I make to the default Mercury theme because it's always bugged me that they're backwards.

Thanks for the explanation of how this ended up like this. I've personally never had issues with any Version of Cakewalk and for the last 18 years always used the Split Midi tracks. I always thought this made it easier to swap out different synths, Of course there's a better way to do this that I guess I had not yet discovered. 

When I started making Tutorials a few years ago I was forced to at least give Simple Instrument tracks a try.  I have changed to those since. As a matter of fact if I open an old project with split tracks I immediately convert it to all Simple instrument tracks. I actually see no reason for the old split tracks to even be an option. I'm sure other DAW's don't have 4 different tracks. 

[David Baay]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

I actually see no reason for the old split tracks to even be an option.

I've mostly switched to instrument tracks as well, but always recommend noobs start out with separate tracks to learn the concepts of routing MIDI and audio to/from the synth rack, I/O ports and channels, MIDI vs. audio automation, velocity vs. volume, etc.  For those who have never worked with a hardware synth, I think it would be really hard to get a good understanding of all this stuff without having access to separate MIDI and Synth tracks. And being able to split Instrument tracks can help when trouble-shooting "no sound" issues. Also, it occurs to me that under the current implementation it's not possible to apply a Drum Map to an Instrument Track.

 

[scook]

6 minutes ago, David Baay said:

it occurs to me that under the current implementation it's not possible to apply a Drum Map to an Instrument Track.

Just like MFX plug-ins, use the track inspector to add a drum map to an instrument track.

The MIDI output drop down is near the bottom of the inspector MIDI tab channel strip.

[David Baay]

 

12 minutes ago, scook said:

The MIDI output drop down is near the bottom of the inspector MIDI tab channel strip.

Interesting; is that relatively new?  I don't recall having access to the MIDI Out of an instrument track previously, and did not think it would ever be allowed since changing it (or assigning a Drum Map that outputs to the wrong port) could break the Instrument track.

Edited February 20, 2022 by David Baay

[scook]

X-series Instrument track inspectors have always had all the MIDI and audio controls.

I have no recollection of instrument tracks prior to X1. Did not use them prior to the X-series.

[John Vere]

That Midi tab is so  hidden - this tiny little word almost off the bottom of your screen. I only learned of it's existence a few months ago.  But then I'm new to the Simple Instrument track world but I can see a lot of people not knowing it's there. 

There used to be a few reasons why a lot of us who did come originally from hardware seem to prefer the Midi/Instrument combo but now I can't recall any of those reasons anymore. The big plus to me for using Simple Instruments is that it cuts my track count right in half for midi.  I used to hide the Midi tracks to make room, how dumb that seems to me now. I'm still  opening old projects that have hidden midi tracks.