Chernobyl Studios Cakewalk Mixing Tutorial Cancelled Due to Bugs

[Starship Krupa]

Now Cakewalk does not work for Scott, Beserkir!

Plug-in settings are all shot, Beserkir!

Now we have tempest in teapot Beserkir!

(with apologies to Clerks, and to everyone else)

Edited April 23, 2019 by Starship Krupa

[Johnbee58]

So sad.  I really used to think that this was a pretty decent group of really helpful people.  Now,  not so much, especially looking at threads like this.  But I guess it's just that the virtual world mirrors the real world in that there are always a few a$$holes in a RW club/organization.  It's the same in the virtual world too.  Unfortunate.

If you don't want to watch a guy's tutorials, for whatever reason, just don't watch them.  If he's acting like a crybaby, ignore him.  I'm sure we're all better than the actions of some of the folks who've participated in this thread.  Is it too much to ask to act civil and respectful to each other?  We all have a common interest and a love for music.  We should be helping each other instead of putting the other guy down.

?JB

[Tezza]

I have to say, I am always suspect when people come onto DAW forums raving about Reaper or pushing it in some way. This seems to be marketing strategy used by Reaper crew. I would have more respect for the video if it just laid out the problems without constant reference to Reaper. 

Having said that, what are the problems indicated by the video? no-one has clarified that and isn't that what we should be doing in reporting bugs? From what I can see these are the bugs reported by the video:

1. Third party plugin presets not being maintained when the project is shut down and restarted. (fabfilter and waves?).

I personally have not experienced this and it appears no-one else in this thread has either, so we would need to find more people who have experienced this, if it is happening then it would be a serious issue. Can anyone duplicate this bug?

2. Playback now time marker sometimes will not stop, keeps going, stop button greyed out, have to shut down Cakewalk.

I have experienced this, but not in Cakewalk. I experienced it in Pro tools and Studio One when I was using a Focusrite 2i4 interface. An updated driver by Focusrite fixed the problem. There are others in this thread with the problem, are they running Focusrite interfaces with old drivers? This seems to be an audio driver/software problem rather than a specific bug in Cakewalk. I have also seen it reported on other DAW forums.

3. Missing Prochannel modules from an update in 2016, no details given of what that is and how it is related to Cakewalk, Cakewalk started in 2018 so must relate to old Sonar.

I didn't really understand from the video what this was about, whether it related to old Sonar or has anything to do with the current Cakewalk. I have not experienced any missing Prochannel modules and have not seen any complaints about that in this forum.

4. Too many audio dropouts, claims has to up ASIO driver to 1024 instead of 512.

I can't see the problem here, just run at 1024 then. If running at 1024 when mixing cures audio dropouts for your project then run it at that. Different DAW's process things differently, Pro tools won't even run properly at all without a second hard drive whereas other DAW's will (to a point). I find Mixcraft for example will run projects and mix at insanely low ASIO latencies on my system but Pro-tools won't, Studio One is about the same as Cakewalk.

5. GUI is lagging, says it should be an instant switch between screens but is not.

I couldn't see what was happening here, the screens switch at the same pace as in other DAW's. It's not something I have noticed, I use a 6gb graphics card.

 

I only see one bug being reported here, the resetting of plugin settings, serious if it can be replicated, but no-one else appears to be having this problem. The playback not stopping seems to be more related to incompatibilities between audio drivers and software across all DAW's rather than being a specific Cakewalk bug. I don't understand the missing Prochannel module complaints. The higher latencies needed to prevent audio dropouts when mixing is not a bug. and neither is the GUI lag swapping screens as far as I can see.

The only thing in this video worthy of getting drunk and swapping DAW's would be the third party plugin issue if it is indeed an issue for others who don't drink while driving their DAW.

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Tezza

[Cardinal Sin]

17 minutes ago, Tezza said:

I personally have not experienced this and it appears no-one else in this thread has either, so we would need to find more people who have experienced this, if it is happening then it would be a serious issue. Can anyone duplicate this bug? 

Do a search on the old Cakewalk forums for threads and posts by user 'Sharke' you will soon see that the OP (and Sharke) are not alone. Possible reason for no one in this thread seeing the same thing may well be that those who previously had the issue have moved on to another DAW, as Sharke himself did. Having said that you can find other instances here on these forums of people encountering the issue, I have read them myself.

[Edit} "you will soon see that the OP" . . .  or more correctly the dude from the video

Edited May 1, 2019 by Cardinal Sin

[Tezza]

I am not going to search the old Cakewalk forum, issues relating to Cakewalk need to be posted in this forum. I have no interest in old Sonar.  Unless there are current Cakewalk users reporting this issue on this forum then it doesn't exist. It may well be that the issue was addressed and that is why no-one else is reporting it.

6 minutes ago, Cardinal Sin said:

you can find other instances here on these forums of people encountering the issue, I have read them myself.

Where? can you show the thread links? if this is the case then it would be relevant information to addressing this bug.

[Cardinal Sin]

I don't need to show you, I know for a fact what I have read, I have no need to prove anything to anyone. Just as you don't wish to search the old forums, I also don't wish to search these forums for things that may well be included in somewhat unrelated threads.

[Tezza]

I am not asking you to prove anything, it's not about belief. I am genuinely interested as to whether support for these claims exists, if it does, then what has been said by those who experienced the problem will be of value and it will be worthy of staff to investigate. We need to hear from the people who are CURRENTLY experiencing this problem first hand in Cakewalk by Bandlab and with what plugins. That would be a good start. At the moment we have one complaint from Chernobyl Studio's.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Tezza

[Cardinal Sin]

If memory serves me correct, if you do a search for posts here by user Grem, he made a post in a thread in which he mentioned that there was a user by the name of James (Real name), but he couldn't remember what handle he used, he was in fact talking about Sharke, I think the mention was to do with this issue, if you find that I believe it will give you one instance of what you are looking for(I may be wrong), but there are others.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Cardinal Sin

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, Tezza said:

I am not asking you to prove anything, it's not about belief. I am genuinely interested as to whether support for these claims exists, if it does, then what has been said by those who experienced the problem will be of value and it will be worthy of staff to investigate. We need to hear from the people who are CURRENTLY experiencing this problem first hand in Cakewalk by Bandlab and with what plugins. That would be a good start. At the moment we have one complaint from Chernobyl Studio's.

Here's a current thread with some people experiencing it.

The problem is, that no-one can reproduce the issue reliably. I use the same plugins as some of the ones mentioned in the thread and can't reproduce the problem either. Even the people who are experiencing the issue say it only happens sometimes.

[Cardinal Sin]

The one I was talking about which refers to James, aka Sharke from the old forums, and shows others have had the issue. It's been happening for a long time and never fixed. It may not affect everyone, or even most, but it affects enough to be a 'real' issue and not just make believe.

But like I said, there is more if you care to look.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Cardinal Sin

[Tezza]

Thanks Mark, looking at that thread, it's still not clear to me what is going on, it sounds as though TVR Productions was opening old Sonar projects in current Cakewalk and was getting unexpected problems. Is this the problem? People opening old Sonar projects in Cakewalk?

Cardinal Sin, that is a repost of what this post is about so it's not really a different post. Grem says it happened to him once or twice but that is the only additional information.

It reminds me a bit of when I was using Studio One v2 and then upgraded to Studio One v3. Opening a v2 project in v3 was supposed to be compatible but weird things happened like after an hour of editing or there abouts, suddenly the the now time marker would lose synch with the project. Many reported this and it was looked into, sometimes happening, sometimes not, but in the end the solution recommended was to finish v2 projects in v2 and to start new ones in v3.

I know that Cakewalk is supposed to be compatible with past versions of Sonar, in terms of opening and running old projects but is this really the case?

I guess, to eliminate this possibility, it would be good to hear from someone who has started a new project from scratch in Cakewalk and is experiencing this problem.

Alternatively, to those in that thread who were experiencing the problem, were these old Sonar projects being opened in new Cakewalk? It could be some sort of project version incompatibility.

 

Max Arwood seems to think it's a VST 2/3 confusion, he had a workaround to correct the situation in his case and was advised to send a post to Noel, did that happen?

Max's workaround:

 

I’m pretty sure this is a VST2/VST3 issue  They should not be mixed together in the same project   But if you insist on it you could try this  

Don’t know why is works - but now I don’t have to worry about what kind of plugins I use VST2,VST3 32bit/64bit and I can again focus on the mix. 

Here is what I do -

Uncheck boxes in vst settings
Replace if possible
Recycle plugin windows

Then when you save the file name it
Auto-save copy of song name.cwp
(Replace song name - your song name)

ALWAYS use save as and never
Use save or CTRL-S

Don’t know why but I have not lost any setting in since early March. 

I have been loosing settings over and over. It has been a nightmare resetting the plugins over and over. I think 2 years give or take. 

I seems a little weird but after 2 months and way over 100 saves and reopens with all plugins remembering their settings I know it works for me. 

Good luck

Thanks,
Max Arwood

[Cardinal Sin]

1 hour ago, Tezza said:

Cardinal Sin, that is a repost of what this post is about so it's not really a different post. Grem says it happened to him once or twice but that is the only additional information. 

Yes I realize that, there are more references to the issue other than those 2, it's just that Grem's reference to James(Sharke's) issues gave me a reference to search, otherwise finding the other references to the issue would be more difficult, and I just couldn't be bothered. The 'only additional information' was to show that there are indeed others with the issue, as you seem to be saying that the only person with the issue was the dude that done the video, which is simply not true, and seeing as you yourself had the issue . . . well, although you found a way around it with a workaround, in true Cakewalk fashion, the issue still remains.

I don't understand your reticence to search out references on the old forums, because remember they were still functioning as THE forum almost 1 year after Bandlab took over, this forum has only been up for what 4 months or so?, so it's not like the old forum is 100% SONAR, but as John Lennon said 'Whatever gets you through the night, it's alright, it's alright" I had the issue myself way back mainly with OVERLOUD's TH2 and DDMF's IIEQPro, they would continually loose themselves. One thing you will note if you checked out some of the references from the old forums, is that it only happened in Cakewalk/SONAR, it would never happen in any other DAW the people used, I also found that myself, only in SONAR.

Anyway, it's no skin off my nose if the issue never gets sorted, I jumped ship 4+ years ago, just here for the deals and the giggles.

[Tezza]

1 hour ago, Cardinal Sin said:

you seem to be saying that the only person with the issue was the dude that done the video, which is simply not true, and seeing as you yourself had the issue . . . well, although you found a way around it with a workaround, in true Cakewalk fashion, the issue still remains.

I don't understand your reticence to search out references on the old forums.

One thing you will note if you checked out some of the references from the old forums, is that it only happened in Cakewalk/SONAR, it would never happen in any other DAW the people used, I also found that myself, only in SONAR.

Anyway, it's no skin off my nose if the issue never gets sorted, I jumped ship 4+ years ago, just here for the deals and the giggles.

I am just trying to clarify the issues in the video and actively searching for others who may have the issue. I openly asked others to report the issue. I don't know how you can interpret this to mean that I am saying the only person with the issue is the one in the video, that is not correct. There are 2 threads with this issue and it seems Max Arwood may be on to something.

I never had the issue myself, if you read my post again you will see I am quoting Max's workaround in the above post.

I don't want to reference the previous forums because you can never tell whether they are talking about Sonar or Cakewalk. It's also filled with people grumpy about the collapse of Sonar and going on about really old Sonar bugs. In addition, every topic seems to be seeded with irrelevant posts, you have to wade through them all to find the gems. Why drag all that into this forum? I also like to be clear that we are talking about the current program, not one 15 years ago. Even if there are still old bugs present, looking at them with fresh eyes should be better than with old, jaded, cynical eyes.

Saying things like it never happened in any other DAW only Sonar/Cakewalk assumes that you have tried every other DAW all the time. It has also happened in Studio One for example but that was due to the changes in native plugin features between v2 and v3. I think you are exaggerating your claims.

If you jumped ship 4+ years ago then how could you have ever even used Cakewalk? Your the second person I've encountered who does not use the program, just comes here to get deals from the deals section and drops disparaging remarks about Cakewalk while here. You do not think that is disrespectful? You take the benefits this forum provides but then criticize the program for which this forum was built, a program you don't even use.

If you have something useful to add from your first hand experience with the problem that might help solve the issue then fine. But since you don't even use the program I cannot see how that can be. How are you contributing to help fix the issue?

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Tezza

[ChernobylStudios]

12 hours ago, Tezza said:

The only thing in this video worthy of getting drunk and swapping DAW's would be the third party plugin issue if it is indeed an issue for others who don't drink while driving their DAW.

I didn't get drunk, you moron. Care to misrepresent me again? Go on.

[abacab]

IBTL...

[Tezza]

11 hours ago, ChernobylStudios said:

I didn't get drunk, you moron. Care to misrepresent me again? Go on.

Wow! no sense of humor!

You said you were drinking beer while making the video and you could be seen drinking the beer while making your video. Your voice was slurred and your gait wandered, you looked drunk to me.  I didn't misrepresent you at all, you were drinking beer, you looked drunk and you were drunk.

That doesn't seem very professional to me. Why would any DAW maker want to be affiliated with someone who drinks alcohol and gets visibly drunk while making  training videos? and then attacks DAW users online with threats? What about kids who might be learning the DAW, that's a bad example to set, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Seems to me you need to make a choice if you want to be taken seriously as an online video trainer, leave the alcohol behind, it will only cause you trouble in your business as it is now. Alcohol and business don't mix.

Instead of insulting me, you should be paying me for giving you valuable professional business advice.

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Tezza

[Tezza]

Looking back over this thread, I still cannot see any evidence that duplicates this bug. There just isn't anyone giving a first hand current account that specifically relates to software VST effects losing their settings when Cakewalk is closed down/restarted. The only evidence is to the contrary, namely, that other users currently using the same plugins are not experiencing the issue. There are second and third hand account stories about this bug but no current complaints and attempts to duplicate have failed.

The issue being dealt with on another thread referred to here (TVR Productions), relates more to hardware VST patches not being saved, I am not sure this is the same thing.

The offer has been made for Chernobyl Studios to contact support regarding this and they have chosen not to do that, so I do not know what else can be done.

The wider issue of online video content producers being paid by DAW manufacturers is really between them and the DAW manufacturer. I've seen these arguments play out all over different DAW forums.

Generally though, DAW manufacturers don't do this. It is difficult for DAW manufacturers to establish relationships with third party on-line content providers in this way, because the video creator that might be operating around the other side of the world is then tied to the organization, any bad videos/mistakes they make or any bad on-line behavior they may engage in, can then come back to haunt the organization. There are also many of them, who do you choose? The others will be upset!

It is generally expected that third party on-line video content creators will tap into other markets such as UDEMY, Lynda.com, Groove videos etc and for them to establish their own video selling marketplace perhaps leveraging off Youtube.

One perspective from DAW manufacturers I have seen is that these on-line video creators are actually profiting from the DAW manufacturers work. By making videos of them and selling them.

I am not saying any of these observations apply between Chernobyl Studios and Bandlab, just that I have seen the same argument play out again and again in different settings.

I can certainly very much relate to those who pour their heart and soul into a project, create massive bodies of work, only to find there is no financial payoff for it. Maybe notoriety, recognition and respect by others but no money in the bank. This can very often be the agonizing pain before the transformation though.

What I have learned is to re-purpose the content and find different markets for it, adapt it to suit different markets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Tezza

[Meng]

Guys, I just noticed the thread is being locked, but stepping in here to give my two cents and hopefully a final word on this thread.

Though in the history of the internet (or humanity!) there has never been a situation in which the words "Calm down" ever succeeded in calming things down ?, I just want to make an honest plea that we try and keep the forum friendly, because it could overshadow the importance of why threads like this are posted in the first place.

---

The original comment from @Davydh was that this video was sad to see, and I 100% agree. Any time a user is disappointed by, or has experienced disappointment whilst using one of our products/platforms/services, no matter what the reason or cause, our fault or not - it's disappointing and I am personally sad to have been part of that in some way - even more so if we are personally responsible.

I'm happy for people to disagree with my opinion, but hopefully being someone who is directly affected by it means it has some weight - I think it's worth going on record to say my thoughts are that there wasn't any negative intent from Scott at @ChernobylStudios - his video was one of passion, frustration and disappointment, but that's very different to actively trying to disparage the company out of ill intent.

I want to go on record too to stress that in all the communication I have seen from Scott with us (as BandLab), he has consistently been passionate, respectful, detailed and always wanting to make things better with suggestions that would benefit all users, not just himself.

Since our relaunch, as he correctly pointed out, we have not had yet a policy in which we could compensate creators like himself - he spoke in his livestream of truly loving Cakewalk, caring about it and wanting it to succeed, and I think the proof is in the pudding in the videos he had personally spent the time creating (uncompensated) over the last 12 months since we took over. I sincerely doubt he would actively spend hours of his own personal time creating content that helps people all around the world with a sinister motive down the road.

For what he has contributed positively to the CbB community around the world, I don't think it is controversial at all to say that I am grateful and appreciative.

Do I wish the cancellation video & subsequent livestream wasn't public? Of course! As someone within the company, the only thing I'd love to see out there is flowers and rainbows (and I am thankful for all of you who have been part of this, spreading the word positively across the internet), but I'm equally a firm believer that every user should be entitled to voice his/her opinion and thoughts in the same way we can do anywhere else on the internet - praise always makes one happier, but criticism is more often than not what makes us better.

---

To be clear, the facts of the matter are that he seems to have had a serious issue with VST settings not saving and resetting whilst using CbB and this is a real dealbreaker for us.

This is incredibly concerning, and unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at your glass) we, and our extended testing team, have not been able to reproduce this on any of our devices/tests/attempts to do so. From what he described in his video, it sounds like it is not to do with VST2->VST3 persistence,  so if it is really the case that something within our code is causing VST settings not to save, this is a big deal and I want to stress to everyone here that this isn't something we take lightly. We are doing everything we can to figure this out and address it as we do with every serious bug report.

As per @Morten Saether's post above, this post is also an active call for anyone who has experienced this before and can replicate it to get in touch so that we can try and figure out what is causing it and ensure it doesn't happen again to any other user.

---

Finally, it's also important for me to emphasise that just because CbB is free does not mean we take things less seriously or that you should expect any less from us. The way the team lives, breathes and is set up is as if it were a $1000 product that people paid for. My point of view is that anybody who uses a professional product is investing their own personal time, and frankly for a product like a DAW, the time they spend on it is ultimately worth far more than how would have paid for it outright if it was a $400 boxed product - this is a responsibility we take seriously and we are always trying to figure out ways we can support the CbB users better now it has grown so much larger than it was before.

Thank you again to everybody for your support and for caring enough about CbB to speak up and to continue to be part of this community. We continue to do everything we can to make the product better - feedback from you guys is why this forum (and CbB itself) exists in the first place. How I wish we could get things done faster.

If only there were more than 24 hours in the day!

Yours,

Meng