Noob Question About Changing a Project Name

[razor7music]

Hello Folks--

I probably should know this answer already, but here it goes...

I started a CW project with a working title. Now that the track is taking shape, I want to change the project name. Once I do, how do I safely remove all of the duplicate files that exist under the working title?

As always, thanks!

[scook]

Use Save As with  "Copy all audio with project" to create a new project in a different folder

Verify the new project is what is expected

Delete the old project folder

[Kurre]

If i want to rename a project but don't want to change anything else. Is it "save as" and delete folder that's the given action?

[John Vere]

Just to add, you should always have backups stored to a different drive as well. Never delete ANYTHING that does not have a back up.  

[scook]

38 minutes ago, Kurre said:

If i want to rename a project but don't want to change anything else. Is it "save as" and delete folder that's the given action?

No, "Save As" to a different name in the existing project folder effectively renames the project (although the original project file  will still be in the folder). Alternately, the project folder/file may be renamed at the OS level.

[razor7music]

BTW - thanks for the replies. I was on my mobile and gave Likes, but wanted to also post a thank you. ?

[musikman1]

On 4/14/2019 at 12:18 PM, scook said:

Alternately, the project folder/file may be renamed at the OS level.

Did a "rename/save project" search and saw this thread.  I have a simple question along similar lines........

I frequently double backup my projects I am currently working on to 2  external HDD.  For the longest time I would just copy the project folder (with all its contents and audio) to the External HDD, and select the Windows "overwrite existing file?" option for the backup project folder of the same name on the External.  Then I noticed I began getting some audio errors if I needed to reload the one off the external to my main PC drive.    Hard to describe, but let's just say I believe that maybe some of the audio either got corrupted, or the old audio didn't all get deleted when I did the overwrite with the currently updated version.  I thought maybe if I had Archived tracks in that project it would cause the issue, but not really sure.   So when I want to back up now, I began to first delete the existing backup project folder on the external HDD, then just copy the currently updated one to the HDD, thus eliminating any overwrite issues. 

Aside from being a little risky deleting the older backup first, is this a good way to backup my project to a HDD?   What method do you use?   Thanks!

[scook]

I have never used an OS level copy of a working project for a backup. Working copies of projects tend to have extra files that are no longer necessary.

I also have never under any circumstances used copy /w overwrite when copying a project. This can result in a project folder that is not representative of a project at any stage, practically guaranteeing folders contain irrelevant data.

 

Instead, I use "Save As" to create a new copy of the project with its associated audio. Usually made to an internal drive. Once saved and verified by playing through the project, move it to an external drive.

Aside from space considerations, there is no reason to use one location for a project on any drive. Projects that use per-project audio folders are completely portable so it is very easy to have several complete copies on the same drive.

 

 

[John Vere]

Storage is cheap. My work isn’t. 
I never delete anything period. 
I just make back ups and put a new date on the container folder. I have files that go way back. And guess what. Every once in a while I find what I need in those old files. 
 

[musikman1]

4 hours ago, scook said:

I have never used an OS level copy of a working project for a backup. Working copies of projects tend to have extra files that are no longer necessary.

I see, interesting, all I want to do as I save any newly added tracks on a given day and make an extra backup of those changes somewhere else safe besides my main C drive, like an external HDD.  

Let me make sure I'm understanding this right......So hypothetically if your project name is "My Song",  that means if you are using Save As option every time you save new changes as your project grows and new tracks are added, then you must be needing to name it a different name so as not to overwrite the one of the same name that you previously saved, so it would mean naming the current one "My Song 2" or something like that, correct?  Then you delete the older one(s) as new revisions get saved, is that right?

4 hours ago, scook said:

I also have never under any circumstances used copy /w overwrite when copying a project. This can result in a project folder that is not representative of a project at any stage, practically guaranteeing folders contain irrelevant data.

Ok, so that is why I was getting issues, I did stop using that method once I ran into an issue. It wasn't with every project, but it happened, so I stopped doing it that way.

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by musikman1

[musikman1]

4 minutes ago, John Vere said:

Storage is cheap. My work isn’t. 
I never delete anything period. 
I just make back ups and put a new date on the container folder. I have files that go way back. And guess what. Every once in a while I find what I need in those old files. 

I'm just trying to establish a backup system without things getting too confusing, especially if I'm going to keep any older versions of a song/project.  As I mentioned above, at the end of my recording session, I just want to save the project as it currently stands because changes have been made, I just want to double backup in case the one in the Cakewalk Projects folder on my main HDD gets corrupted or something.  What do you mean John by "container folder"? ....I assume you mean your CW Projects main folder?

Edited March 2, 2021 by musikman1

[musikman1]

4 hours ago, scook said:

Projects that use per-project audio folders are completely portable so it is very easy to have several complete copies on the same drive.

Once saved, I do still drag project folders from one HDD to another for safe keeping. They are self contained with all audio inside too, so they should transfer just fine. I've never had an issue with moving them around, it's when I used the overwrite when saving from CW. 

[scook]

If I only had a C drive and a couple of externals...

I would have a folder on C called something like "To External" 

When it comes time to make a "backup" of a project I would:

• use the "Save As" dialog to navigate to the "To External" folder and save the project using the same name as the original project. Make sure "Copy all audio with project" is enabled.
• then immediately play the project and make sure everything is OK.
• If OK, exit CbB,
• move the project folder out of "To External" to the appropriate external hard drive. Maybe under a Year-Month-Day folder. If I needed two backups of the same project on the same day, create new folders under Y-M-D by time as needed.

Prune backups from the external as needed. 

You may want separate backup directory trees for completed projects and snapshots works in progress.

 

[John Vere]

11 hours ago, musikman1 said:

Once saved, I do still drag project folders from one HDD to another for safe keeping. They are self contained with all audio inside too, so they should transfer just fine. I've never had an issue with moving them around, it's when I used the overwrite when saving from CW. 

That's the easy way. And yes by containment folder that can be either the Project folder or in my case I use Album folders. But once I copy them to a back up location I always date them. 

Save as with copy all audio checked as Scook is recommending is how I make back ups as I work. Like Steve I have a folder I call " Album name back up" This is on my quick links. It's on a SSD drive in a portable enclosure that's always plugged in.

At any given time I might have 20 back ups of my original material kicking around. Some songs are from 1990's originating from an Atari. My backing tracks also progress over time and I have dozens of back ups of those ( 300 songs) I also have a lot of back ups of client projects ( albums) but once finished there out of my main machine and sitting on a shelf. I only keep the 2 track masters on my local hard drives. I have a shoebox full of hard drives and right now I think I have 7 external drives. In my 4 computers there's another 10.  Storage is cheap. 

[musikman1]

On 3/1/2021 at 10:54 PM, scook said:

• use the "Save As" dialog to navigate to the "To External" folder and save the project using the same name as the original project. Make sure "Copy all audio with project" is enabled.
• then immediately play the project and make sure everything is OK.
• If OK, exit CbB,
• move the project folder out of "To External" to the appropriate external hard drive. Maybe under a Year-Month-Day folder. If I needed two backups of the same project on the same day, create new folders under Y-M-D by time as needed.

Prune backups from the external as needed. 

Thanks scook, this is good stuff.....I like the idea for the "To External" folder, using Save As to directly save an "update of the day so to speak."  I know I  don't need to worry about  the project name being the same if I'm saving the daily update to a different folder than the original's location.  Looking ahead to when you would move them from the To External folder to the external HDD, how are multiple copies of that same project being named?  If you try to save in the same folder you get prompted to overwrite existing,  they can't share the same file name.  So the first thought for me is I would need to add a revision date to the end of the file name while in the Save As dialog box,  is that basically the method you use to avoid duplicating a file name?

I'm looking at my project files in Windows Explorer, and all my CWbB projects are in the C:\Cakewalk Projects folder as usual.  Each project has a main or outside folder, and inside that are the audio folder, and the .cwp file.  When I move them to an external HDD for backup, I just move/copy that entire folder as one item.    I would be interested in seeing a screenshot of what a typical heirarchy tree and folder names would look like for the multiple backups of the same project on the External HDD .

On 3/2/2021 at 10:34 AM, John Vere said:

Save as with copy all audio checked as Scook is recommending is how I make back ups as I work. Like Steve I have a folder I call " Album name back up" This is on my quick links. It's on a SSD drive in a portable enclosure that's always plugged in.

Whoa you have a lot of music! So when you're saving projects to your Album backup you are likely dating the file name so as not to duplicate the name if there are a few other copies in that folder.  This is all good, I appreciate the discussion. I am really trying to become more efficient with how I store backups, and want to just keep it simple at the same time. 

For my Mixes, I have always used a simple folder setup with subfolders separated by project name.   

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by musikman1

[scook]

1 hour ago, musikman1 said:

to the external HDD, how are multiple copies of that same project being named?

By placing them under a different folders on the external drive.

One possible layout is a folder at the root called "Projects"

Under projects two folders, Complete and WIP.

Complete would only contain completed projects so their names should be unique

Under WIP, create folders using the backup date.

 

If a made a backup of "My Song" (a work in progress) today the "My Song" backup folder would be placed under "Projects\WIP\2021-03-02"

Tomorrow if I made another backup it would go under "Projects\WIP\2021-03-03"

If I made two backups today, one at 10am and one at 230pm , the first  "My Song" folder would go under "Projects\WIP\2021-03-02\1000" and the second under Projects\WIP\2021-03-02\1430. Of course, since the first "My Song" folder is probably already in "Projects\WIP\2021-03-02" I could choose to leave it there and just create a 1430 folder for the second backup. But, I would most likely go ahead and create the 1000 folder and move the earlier if only to satisfy the "multiple backups of the same project on the same day go in time folders" rule.

 

OR

 

Instead of keeping all the days backups under one date folder, keep all the project's backups under a project folder like this...

under WIP create a "My Song" folder. Then under the "My Song" folders create Date and time folders as described above.

Using the previous example, the backup folder for "My Song" made today would go under "\WIP\MySong\2021-03-02" in a "My Song" folder.

Tomorrows backup would go under "\WIP\MySong\2021-03-03"

The 10am backup today would go under "\WIP\MySong\2021-03-02\1000"

And the 2:30pm backup would go under "\WIP\MySong\2021-03-02\1430"

 

Either way allows multiple copies of the same project on the external drive. One is primarily organized by date, the other by project. 

[John Vere]

To answer your question about songs within the album folder. I only will ever have one version of each song   In that folder. In the beginning there might have been more but I quickly delete them as I carry on. On the rare chance I would need that version it will be found easily on the dated backup files. 
it’s way to easy to take a month off from recording and return and start working on a song only to realize it’s the wrong version.  So only the very latest versions are in that album folder on my working drive. 
When in doubt I look at the date stamp. 
 

Edited March 3, 2021 by John Vere

[lapasoa]

It's much better to have your projects in "Cakewalk Projects Folder" on your C drive and then copy exactly the same folder on an external drive.

[musikman1]

23 hours ago, scook said:

One possible layout is a folder at the root called "Projects"

Under projects two folders, Complete and WIP.

Complete would only contain completed projects so their names should be unique

Under WIP, create folders using the backup date.

This could work, I see what you mean. I noticed though that the outside main folder of a project and the cwp folder inside both share identical names. So both would need renaming, but if I rename it at the SaveAs point while in CWbB, then I think both get renamed automatically.

8 hours ago, lapasoa said:

It's much better to have your projects in "Cakewalk Projects Folder" on your C drive and then copy exactly the same folder on an external drive.

Yes it's the way I've always done it, it's just that I had not created a system for backup files, I just had been dragging them to an external HDD in another folder like Cakewalk Projects, only it would be Cakewalk Projects Bkup, or something like that. I just ran into where I had daily revisions I wanted to backup as well, and I'd have to keep replacing the previously saved backup.  I am looking to keep a few daily backups for awhile until I know I can get rid of some of them.  So what scook and  John said about adding dates to the backups to keep them in some organized way sounds like a good method.  It may likely be even more secure than drag drop to the external,  I've accidentally copied a project or two to the wrong folder, one took me awhile to find! lol 

 

21 hours ago, John Vere said:

To answer your question about songs within the album folder. I only will ever have one version of each song   In that folder. In the beginning there might have been more but I quickly delete them as I carry on. On the rare chance I would need that version it will be found easily on the dated backup files. 
it’s way to easy to take a month off from recording and return and start working on a song only to realize it’s the wrong version.  So only the very latest versions are in that album folder on my working drive. 
When in doubt I look at the date stamp. 

Ok I see John, makes perfect sense.  So you would always have at least one dated backup of any given project in the album folder.  

 

23 hours ago, scook said:

Instead of keeping all the days backups under one date folder, keep all the project's backups under a project folder like this...

under WIP create a "My Song" folder. Then under the "My Song" folders create Date and time folders as described above.

I'm glad there is a second option, this is good!  I do like the "by project" setup a little more,  it is more familiar to they way I set mine up now.

Edited March 3, 2021 by musikman1