Cakewalk needs new young users::.

[Michael Vogel]

Perhaps the reality is that in such a relatively small market such as DAWs (compared to the whole of the entertainment media market) there are just too many players today.
BTW there have been enough big names to use Sonar that if that was really what would bring in a flood of new users it would have already happened.
I think that ProTools locked the early digital adopters into hardware and software simultaneously. Provided a turnkey system when there wasn’t one. After a studio made such a big investment the game was already over. Big studios, our music starting point decades ago, wouldn’t change what worked back then nor are they going to change what continues to work today.  
No matter that I’ve worked with ProTools on a PC  with non PT hardware and prefer several DAWs over it especially Cakewalk. I don’t own a multi million dollar studio and while I can own multiple DAWs and pretty good hardware it’s not a turnkey system which is what Pro Tools can offer. When you’re in the big name space that’s your solution not a cobbled together system.  
Sure a big expensive studio takes maintenance and down time too despite all the expensive toys, that’s the cost of doing business in the big space. 
Despite the fact that I can also manipulate audio in a way that took million of dollars of gear a few decades ago, I’m never going to attract a big name artist. I’m just not in that space and never have been.  Anyway don’t want to start a war.  

Just one persons observation and opinion of course. 

[Will.]

On 6/6/2021 at 6:16 AM, Craig Anderton said:

 

If Cakewalk changed its workflow to accommodate a different demographic, it would fail miserably. 

I don't think It will. There's a question I've start asking these youngsters lately and it boggles my mind. 

So just out of curiosity i've been asking the millennials why they prefer Logic over PT. Craziest answer all the time - Logic looks better than ProTools. Apparently DAW appearanceis a thing too with them. Luckily only 1 told me Cakewalk looks dumb - sjoe! 

For real the answer with that question is always that PT looks out dated. 

Maybe you should ask your students about this between the appearance of your favourite DAWS which would they prefer using. 

 

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 6/8/2021 at 5:24 AM, Noel Borthwick said:

Did you know that Billie Eilish is the neice of an old ex-cakewalk employee - Jamie O’Connell?

Maybe he could get Finneas in to consult ?

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

13 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

So just out of curiosity i've been asking the millennials why they prefer Logic over PT. Craziest answer all the time - Logic looks better than ProTools. Apparently DAW appearanceis a thing too with them. 

If they use Logic they you're talking to people that paid 50-200% more for their hardware because of how shiny it looks.

[Starship Krupa]

I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that the appearance of the tools one uses to create music (or anything else) is important. If it weren't, all solidbody electric guitars would look just like Telecasters.

The appearance of my music-making tools should be as stimulating as possible, for my definition of "stimulating." That's why I've put so many hours into custom Cakewalk themes. I spend more time looking at Cakewalk than anything else on a screen, so looks are a consideration.

[Gswitz]

@Noel Borthwick have you met her?

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

8 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

The appearance of my music-making tools should be as stimulating as possible, for my definition of "stimulating." That's why I've put so many hours into custom Cakewalk themes. I spend more time looking at Cakewalk than anything else on a screen, so looks are a consideration.

I can be on it for 6-8 hrs a day so the default theme is easier on the eyes, I don't want my eyeballs stimulated, it needs to be clear and functional.

FWIW I though the old 8.5 style interface was clearer but I am used to it now.  

[Light Grenade]

Apple's marketing department have been successful in their quest to solidify MacBooks as the ultimate portable computer, even though they are gravely overpriced and underpowered. This is why you have students using MacBooks for nothing more than word processing. You go into a coffee shop, how many folks are using Dell, Lenovo or HP laptops? Not many. Apple have created an environment where anything android or windows is seen as being cheap, not as good or not as cool, and sadly this matters to a lot people.  

Cakewalk's biggest hurdle is trying to compete in an industry, and wider creative landscape which is so apple focused. In my experience of recording studios and general music production, 95% of people are using Apple products, sometimes to their own detriment. For example, students shelling out 1.5k on a MacBook, only to find out it's has a Quad i5 CPU with 4gb of RAM which doesn't actually get them very far.  Thankfully, there seems to have been a bit of a realisation recently due to even more obscene Apple prices. This has resulted in a lot of people I know going hackintosh, so hopefully this combined with stability of W10 will see a slow transition away from Apple over time, which will no doubt benefit programs like Cakewalk. 

This is only my opinion of course!
 

Edited June 10, 2021 by Light Grenade

[Starship Krupa]

5 hours ago, Mark Morgon-Shaw said:

I can be on it for 6-8 hrs a day so the default theme is easier on the eyes, I don't want my eyeballs stimulated, it needs to be clear and functional.

Ah, that's what Racing Green is for. Check it out if you want to try a dark theme. It's designed to be easy on the eyes and let me focus on the clips and notes. As flat as I could make it, and it's all soothing green buttons.

The other one is for when I want to tickle my visual centers.

Other themers have created light ones that try to emphasize "clear and functional." I think there's even one that emulates the 8.5 colors.

[MarianoGF]

On 6/10/2021 at 12:45 PM, Light Grenade said:

Apple's marketing department have been successful in their quest to solidify MacBooks as the ultimate portable computer, even though they are gravely overpriced and underpowered. This is why you have students using MacBooks for nothing more than word processing. You go into a coffee shop, how many folks are using Dell, Lenovo or HP laptops? Not many. Apple have created an environment where anything android or windows is seen as being cheap, not as good or not as cool, and sadly this matters to a lot people.  

Cakewalk's biggest hurdle is trying to compete in an industry, and wider creative landscape which is so apple focused. In my experience of recording studios and general music production, 95% of people are using Apple products, a lot of the time to their out detriment. For example, students shelling out 1.5k on a MacBook, only to find out it's has a Quad i5 CPU with 4gb of RAM, and this doesn't actually get very far.  There seems to have been a bit of a realisation recently due to even more obscene Apple prices. This has resulted in a lot of people I know going hackintosh, so hopefully this combined with stability of W10 will see transition away from Apple over time, which will no doubt benefit Cakewalk. 

This is only my opinion of course!
 

I agree with your opinion.
If I'm not wrong, you were the first one in this thread in talking about "recording studios". You know, when I created this thread about claiming for younger people to come to Cakewalk, I was thinking about the future recording studios, but I didn't say it clearly. Then lots of people fortunately started to give their opinions, almost every one of them talking about "teenagers making music with phones". What I wanted to mean is that, beyond how teenagers make music with phones, recording studios will keep existing in the future, even evolutioning and changing. So what mattered to me in my original post was how Cakewalk, now being free and acquired by BandLab, can attract young musicians and future engineers to be better established in the future recording studios. So your post was the best to me to clarify what I wanted to say originally. Thanks::.

Edited June 13, 2021 by MarianoGF

[Light Grenade]

53 minutes ago, MarianoGF said:

What I wanted to mean is that, beyond how teenagers make music with phones, recording studios will keep existing in the future, even evolutioning and changing. So what mattered to me in my original post was how Cakewalk, now being free and acquired by BandLab, can attract young musicians and future engineers to be better establish in the future recording studios. 

Over the last few years, I've noticed some dry hire studios offering Reaper as an option on their systems. One studio owner specifically told me 'A lot of the youngsters have been asking if we have Reaper'.

Reaper is arguably uglier, and more confusing than Cakewalk, so I don't think the Cakewalk GUI puts youngsters off. It is however, available on both Windows and Mac OS which makes collaboration easier, amongst other things. 

The reason I use Reaper as a comparison is because it's very sensibly priced, or 'free' if you never come out of evaluation mode. 

Until studios start using Windows en masse, or Cakewalk is properly developed for Apple, I can't see Cakewalk becoming a recording studio staple. 

However, people starting out could do a lot worse than learn Cakewalk inside out. It's always been my #1, but I have also learned Reaper and Pro Tools (yuck) for the basis of recording in other places. I then mix in Cake, and this setup is fine.

Edited June 10, 2021 by Light Grenade

[fitzj]

I know Bandlab are doing a great job in keeping  this DAW updated etc but I feel this forum  is missing something. As a cakewalk user since the 90's I feel the Gibson issue destroyed  us all  in some little  way. Many  people just left. Not the buzz we had had years ago. I wonder what can do done to bring that back? No media from the Bandlab team and over  at  Presonus they are churning out great video's daily. So let's hope they hire people,  create  more videos on the  new features and  do some serious marketing.

[MarianoGF]

1 hour ago, fitzj said:

I know Bandlab are doing a great job in keeping  this DAW updated etc but I feel this forum  is missing something. As a cakewalk user since the 90's I feel the Gibson issue destroyed  us all  in some little  way. Many  people just left. Not the buzz we had had years ago. I wonder what can do done to bring that back? No media from the Bandlab team and over  at  Presonus they are churning out great video's daily. So let's hope they hire people,  create  more videos on the  new features and  do some serious marketing.

Like you, I thought BandLab didn't promote Cakewalk, but then I realized something basic: the strategy is not to promote Cakewalk to the general public, but to do it for the ones who already use BandLab online DAW. Into the BandLab social media there is simply a button to download Cakewalk. So I think that's the best way to attract new young users. They first use BandLab DAW. 90% of them then dedicate their lives to completely other proffessions and use BandLab as a hobby. 10% of them want to go deeper and download Cakewalk (those who have Windows).
The majority of people who went away to other DAWs when Gibson abbandoned Cakewalk won't come back, but we are giving the welcome to new young BandLab users. They simply don't use this forum, they share their ideas into the BandLab social media. This forum is the Cakewalk's best compilation of resources provided by us, the old users.

Edited June 11, 2021 by MarianoGF

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

13 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Other themers have created light ones that try to emphasize "clear and functional." I think there's even one that emulates the 8.5 colors.

Yeah none of them are any better then Mercury and I can'tr be doing with incompatbilities if the bakers change stuff 

[Light Grenade]

11 hours ago, fitzj said:

I know Bandlab are doing a great job in keeping  this DAW updated etc but I feel this forum  is missing something. As a cakewalk user since the 90's I feel the Gibson issue destroyed  us all  in some little  way. Many  people just left. Not the buzz we had had years ago. 

Yeah, I get this. I nearly defected to Reaper / Studio One, and I totally get why people did. 

I wasn't aware how buggy Sonar X1/X2/X3/ were at the time, X2 particularly was a nightmare, I corrupted more projects than I finished with X2. However, I didn't actually realise how bad it was until I used Reaper for awhile in the Gibson/Bandlab crossover period. Reaper is solid as a rock. Thankfully, Cakewalk in it's current form is very, very good and stable, the best it's ever been by far. I just don't think people are aware, or believe it.

I get that though, as I had people telling me X2 was stable when it absolutely wasn't. Bugs are being taken way more seriously now, and are being fixed quickly which is great and a testament to the team. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Light Grenade

[timboalogo]

On 6/10/2021 at 12:36 AM, Starship Krupa said:

I have no problem whatsoever with the idea that the appearance of the tools one uses to create music (or anything else) is important. If it weren't, all solidbody electric guitars would look just like Telecasters.

The appearance of my music-making tools should be as stimulating as possible, for my definition of "stimulating." That's why I've put so many hours into custom Cakewalk themes. I spend more time looking at Cakewalk than anything else on a screen, so looks are a consideration.

Exactly. I love going down to my studio with the lights off and seeing all those (mostly blue) lights reflecting off my guitars and gear. But my working DAW theme has to be easy on my eyes.

[Starship Krupa]

On 6/11/2021 at 2:01 AM, Light Grenade said:

Bugs are being taken way more seriously now, and are being fixed quickly which is great and a testament to the team. 

It's a testament to a lot of things. BandLab's stewardship of the product, hiring the cream of the Cakewalk, Inc. developers. Allowing a developer-driven model rather than a marketing-driven model, where bug fixing is given a priority over feature additions (not to say that the new features we've seen aren't appreciated).

The product that Cakewalk, Inc. was selling was licenses. The product that BandLab is selling is user satisfaction and enthusiasm.

I've said it before, I've worked in commercial software development environments and software engineers hate bugs as much as if not more than the users do. Being forced by management to release a program with known bugs is like being forced to release a mix with glaring mistakes. Having freedom to fix all the bugs you want is heaven.

[John]

14 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

It's a testament to a lot of things. BandLab's stewardship of the product, hiring the cream of the Cakewalk, Inc. developers. Allowing a developer-driven model rather than a marketing-driven model, where bug fixing is given a priority over feature additions (not to say that the new features we've seen aren't appreciated).

The product that Cakewalk, Inc. was selling was licenses. The product that BandLab is selling is user satisfaction and enthusiasm.

I've said it before, I've worked in commercial software development environments and software engineers hate bugs as much as if not more than the users do. Being forced by management to release a program with known bugs is like being forced to release a mix with glaring mistakes. Having freedom to fix all the bugs you want is heaven.

I think this is the best critique I have read about Cakewalk by Bandlab. I also have to agree. I doubt it could be said better.