Cakewalk needs new young users::.

[MarianoGF]

It's obvious, but the future of any software is determined for the amount of new users it attracts. I love CbB, but I see it's something like a gift by BandLab for the +40 users (like me), who used it for decades. But unlike me, lots of veteran users hate every new feature or change for the good of the software. They are stuck in the concept of "all the past time was better", and there's no other ambit in the universe where that concept is wrong, but in technology.

Cakewalk is constantly improving, even more frequently than ever in the past, but along with technical improvement, it needs a daily dynamic community activity, in order to get new users who assure the existence of CbB in the future. This forum is awesome for those who already belong to the community, but it's not an entrance door for new users. A more active official Facebook page, as well as an Instagram, not to mention a more dynamic and complete website, are essential things to get new blood. Once they know about Cakewalk and start using it, they can join this forum and give fresh ideas to build the future of Cakewalk.

Just my point of view.
Thanks::.

[Pragi]

Hello Mariano,

I don't think that the "veterans"hate new

features,but agreed, the most user of the DAW Cakewalk and the members of this forum are or are etting old (me too).

If you visit the forum /community of other DAW's you will find them in a compareable situation,the days of the classic DAW's seem to slowly pass away.

That's why Bandlab is on a good way to try to embed the Bandlab samples ,community-features aso into Cakewalk to encourage younger people to use Cakewalk.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by Pragi

[Pragi]

Hello Mariano,

are you hating veterans ??

[MarianoGF]

6 hours ago, Pragi said:

Hello Mariano,

are you hating veterans ??

Haha, not at all. I'm one of them. But I'm a bit tired to read people who say they don't update Windows because "every new Windows update destroys the PC", or people who uses CbB in an offline PC, for "safety reasons". The crazyest thing I've read is the post in this link. The guy argues will stop using CbB because he suspects "BandLab is spying his músic composition through its frequent activation".

Edited May 26, 2021 by MarianoGF

[John Vere]

The forum is full of old farts like us because forums are part of our era of the internet. My son laughs at my involvement on forums. His generation only uses forums as a tool or source of possible solutions to any issues they are having. Be it with a car or the refrigerator.  They find the odd forum buy entering a Google search for an issue they have and mostly just looking. Google brings up a lot of hits that are forums.

To actually join a forum you would need to be desperate for an answer. And many require a sign up process that you have to wait for a mod to approve. This forum I think your automatically signed into via the Assistant.

We are told we have 1  million users now. Probably most of those are well under 40 years of age. Out of that we only have a few people who answer questions on the Q&A forum.  The old farts. 

 

 

[MarianoGF]

Or maybe the current strategy is that the young BandLab DAW users who want to go deeper in pro audio, have Cakewalk at one click distance. Then the marketing tool that Cakewalk has to attract new users is actually the BandLab social network. So perhaps I was wrong and Cakewalk is the best future-facing pro DAW, due its aquisition by BandLab. I hope so::.

[chris.r]

Personally I don't think Cakewalk is the best choice right on start for most of the new young users there. The way I take it is that Cakewalk would be best suited for those who got on the online Bandlab app and found it lacking at some point... and are on Windows by a chance. And while I might be not yet considered an old fart by some more prominent members here  but I'm getting there, still I was one of the first to say thanks right after the new tempo track had been announced, so no hate at the new features at all, especially the ones that lift Cakewalk up to today's standards. Granted I'm still based on some old workflows, for example the reason I may still use MIDI control change events instead of envelopes is because they still seem too buggy for me or I completely misunderstand their concept. I might handle a single tempo track with it's some of the few bugs and odds just well but no way I would want to deal with 20 or 40 tracks full of track AND clip envelopes in their current shape.

What I think would be best for newcomers is the online Bandlab app with it's simplicity of use and the modern vocabulary like 'stems' or 'regions' - it sounds sooo contemporary but for me it could really mean many things . Or Ableton Live lite with it's plain user interface and very consistent workflow where it's difficult to get unwanted user errors. I can easily see newcomers having trouble for months trying to understand why is snap to grid "not working" in Cakewalk ? and the like, or even having trouble getting started with the drivers.

Edited May 26, 2021 by chris.r

[John]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

The forum is full of old farts like us because forums are part of our era of the internet. My son laughs at my involvement on forums. His generation only uses forums as a tool or source of possible solutions to any issues they are having. Be it with a car or the refrigerator.  They find the odd forum buy entering a Google search for an issue they have and mostly just looking. Google brings up a lot of hits that are forums.

To actually join a forum you would need to be desperate for an answer. And many require a sign up process that you have to wait for a mod to approve. This forum I think your automatically signed into via the Assistant.

We are told we have 1  million users now. Probably most of those are well under 40 years of age. Out of that we only have a few people who answer questions on the Q&A forum.  The old farts. 

 

 

I totally agree with John. Without the "old farts" I think any answers would be few and far between.  Further I have been working with Sonar/Cakewalk forums from the very beginning of the Sonar forums. That has been a long time but I was never "young" while doing so. I felt a need to help members get the most out of their DAW of choice. One big reason was because I actually read the manual. LOL

[Colin Nicholls]

Reddit and YouTube are full of young new users. I try to direct them here when appropriate, in order that they might take advantage of the knowledge base here.

[Steev]

I'm pretty active on Bandlab.com and involved in several collaborations and always try to get users to come here and join the forum.

 The biggest troubles I have convincing them is Bandlab's Mix Editor which is actually a 16 track cloud based DAW is all they feel they need and is getting better & better almost by the day with more functions and adding new FX plugins to an already sizable bundle of very cool modern & vintage FX.

 Can anyone guess what the BL-1176 can do? Well it can't do all what a NI 1176 or a Waves 1176 plugins can do, but it's close enough for a veteran to recognize as an 1176 signature, and the newbies may not actually know or care what an 1176 is, they know enough about it know it makes their tracks jump out and sound GOOD.

And it's now so shockingly GOOD & POWERFUL some don't feel the need to learn a new DAW and others can't install Cakewalk on their Android, iOS devices, or Mac computers, so they don't even bother. 

That, and many, many young users don't like to hang out in forums with us geezers that remind them of their "Parents" ??

Yeah, try to put yourself in their shoes before offering them advice.  To a place where, to them, "Old School" is Taylor Swift or Beyoncé... ?

[InstrEd]

My teenage daughters say the same thing to me about forums. Dad they are so old fashioned. What can I say I'm not a spring chicken.  I started way back in the day with dail-up modems and CompuServe BBS.  These young whipper snappers don't know how good they have it  

[John]

Yeah, try to put yourself in their shoes before offering them advice.  To a place where, to them, "Old School" is Taylor Swift or Beyoncé... ?

That is a funny and insightful point. ?

The knowledge and wisdom of this forum is precious and free to those willing to access it. 

[Steev]

55 minutes ago, InstrEd said:

My teenage daughters say the same thing to me about forums. Dad they are so old fashioned. What can I say I'm not a spring chicken.  I started way back in the day with dail-up modems and CompuServe BBS.  These young whipper snappers don't know how good they have it  

Yeah, now my grand kids say the same about me! ? I go back to the days of recording to tape. I was the first kid on my block to get my hands on on old 8 track Skully the size of a washing machine I had to keep in it's own air conditioned room (so it wouldn't overheat) next to my recording room space.

  I spent more time in maintaining it to keep it going then I did recording music. It ate "2 tape to the tune of about $2 (us) per minute or more of recorded music. Typically more, because all editing had to be done with a grease pen and razor blade so needless to say the more beer we drank the more tape ended up in the trash can. ??? Did you ever try to cut & splice together 2" magnetic tape with Scotch tape whilst drunk?

 Anyway recording was rather pricy back in the day. To get an idea of how pricy it was, it cost LESS to purchase a brand new Apple Power Mac & Pro Tools then it did paying for studio time for ONE ALBUM!? And that was before pressing it to vinyl or much more affordable cassette tapes which didn't have near the sound quality of .mp3's ?

 Yeah, I don't miss those days in the least, and any young aspiring musician suggests me giving advice and or helping achieve their romantic dreams of recording to tape and making a vinyl recording gets nothing more then a BIG 'OL BELLY LAUGH out of me.

Any when anyone asks me if I still use my vintage Teletronics LA/2A any more I yell NO at them and tell them that "Vintage" is just a 7 letter word for an "Old & tired Piece of CRAP" that not only needs new capacitors, but near constant cleaning & maintenance. My CA/2A vst plugin needs NONE OF THAT NONSENSE. If it breaks, which it hasn't done yet, all I need to do is reinstall it, and it can do things the original hardware can't do. Like NOT take up valuable studio rack real-estate, run independently on EVERY TRACK and will it run in stereo. 

 

 

[mdiemer]

5 hours ago, MarianoGF said:

Haha, not at all. I'm one of them. But I'm a bit tired to read people who say they don't update Windows because "every new Windows update destroys the PC", or people who uses CbB in an offline PC, for "safety reasons". The crazyest thing I've read is the post in this link. The guy argues will stop using CbB because he suspects "BandLab is spying his músic composition through its frequent activation".

Everyone has a right to express their opinion. That's a what a forum is. If you don't agree with it, fine. Don't read their posts. To say you're getting tired of reading this or that opinion kind of smacks of elitism. Just because you disagree with how they see the world, that doesn't make you right and them wrong. Or vice versa. You can also block people whose posts,  writing style, age, or whatever,  you don't like.  I do.  But honestly, nobody cares if you're getting tired of reading opinions you disagree with.

[chris.r]

6 hours ago, MarianoGF said:

But I'm a bit tired to read people who say they don't update Windows because "every new Windows update destroys the PC"...

Actually that would be my point of view almost exactly as you said, every now and then a Windows update 'destroys' people's working DAW either by breaking compatibility for some plugins, changing rules for permissions or sneaking in some default drivers or settings back where you'd have thought you had things set correctly. You then have to spend some quality time updating broken software or if you'd prefer to keep things the old way you'd be quickly left behind with an outdated version or the DAW. That's exactly my experience since I have upgraded to Windows 10 after decades of using Win7 and earlier XP, where I had things simply set and forget.  

Edited May 26, 2021 by chris.r

[Jeremy Oakes]

19 minutes ago, chris.r said:

Actually that would be my point of view almost exactly as you said, every now and then a Windows update 'destroys' people's working DAW either by breaking compatibility for some plugins, changing rules for permissions or sneaking in some default drivers or settings back where you'd have thought you had things set correctly. You then have to spend some quality time updating broken software or if you'd prefer to keep things the old way you'd be quickly left behind with an outdated version or the DAW. That's exactly my experience since I have upgraded to Windows 10 after decades of using Win7 and earlier XP, where I had things simply set and forget.  

But, its up to the plug in developers to update their offerings. Driver developers also. And often they do, albeit with some delay.

But for those that don’t, how long does it take you to reinstall things on a modern PC ?

Imagine if we were on Mac’s and were told not to update to an OS by vst creators (which is the case with certain ones at the moment).

As a matter of fact and to avoid any possible issues i always re-install my Focusrite drivers every autumn and spring, when the two major W10 updates fall. Its very simple, not an issue as far as i’m concerned. Same for my live rig (laptop) with the Soundcraft drivers.

Whilst its very easy to blame Wondows,  and yes there are certain issues, there are workarounds as above that are simple and easy to apply.

My 2 euro cents

YMMV

J

[Steev]

44 minutes ago, mdiemer said:

Everyone has a right to express their opinion. That's a what a forum is. If you don't agree with it, fine. Don't read their posts. To say you're getting tired of reading this or that opinion kind of smacks of elitism. Just because you disagree with how they see the world, that doesn't make you right and them wrong. Or vice versa. You can also block people whose posts,  writing style, age, or whatever,  you don't like.  I do.  But honestly, nobody cares if you're getting tired of reading opinions you disagree with.

 Your whole "Why Should You Care" pot calling the kettle black post smacks of elitism.

Well THIS forum is about Cakewalk technology, and opinions really don't have much value here or anywhere else for that matter and should be taken with a mere grain of salt.

The fact of the matter is running a DAW off line just for the illusion be safe is not only delusional, because you have to go elsewhere online to get HERE into this forum and update your DAW, so losing about 90% efficiency  of the business of creating and publishing music. Sounds like a WHOLE LOT of extra unnecessary work to me. Creating music that nobody can hear is like a tree falling in the woods that no one witnesses happening.

 And SOME of us DO care enough about helping each other out and debunking myths about technology based on misguided opinions and beliefs.

As far as opinions go.... I have the same opinion of recording music on an antiquated Windows 7 machine as I do about recording music to tape.

 It's one thing if you can't afford a new computer, but it's another and utterly SELF DEFEATING REDICULOUS  thing entirely to REFUSE to. ? And both Cakewalk & Bandlab services and updating/upgrading Win 7 to Win 10 is TOTALLY FREE OF COSTS & demons & goblins out to get you. But not necessary free of BOOGIE MEN & FEMALES searching relentlessly to maybe jam, collaborate, or maybe just DANCE to your music.? 

Well that is if it's good enough or.................. Even exists! ??

[chris.r]

3 hours ago, Jeremy Oakes said:

But, its up to the plug in developers to update their offerings...

Well, yes... unless they're forced to update to stay compliant with the most recent changes in Windows 10 policies.  

The whole point of my previous post was that today there's no right way for those who prefer to install software and do not poke with it later. One and half year after I upgraded to Win10 slowly I'm becoming exhausted having to constantly pay attention whether I should update the plugin or not, because developer says it's an important update. It takes too much effort always having to check forums and articles before doing an update just to make sure that I'm not falling into trap - most recent examples are AIR and AAS updates - not saying they're directly related to Win10 forced updates in this case, but if I didn't hunt for the right info in the first place, I would regret a quick jump on the update. Didn't want to make it sound too dramatic but life was much more easy before Win10 . Or maybe it's just me.

Edited May 27, 2021 by chris.r

[MarianoGF]

3 hours ago, mdiemer said:

Everyone has a right to express their opinion.

I never said or think the opposite.

 

3 hours ago, mdiemer said:

If you don't agree with it, fine. Don't read their posts.

Fine. If that's your point of view, and you don't agree with my post, just don't read it. But, thinking twice, looking the way you "answered", I guess you didn't read it.

 

3 hours ago, mdiemer said:

Just because you disagree with how they see the world, that doesn't make you right and them wrong. Or vice versa.

To think that a server is trying to steal your music composition because it asks for activation frequently is not a way to see the world. It's something concrete which happens or doesn't happen. And in this case, clearly doesn't happen.

 

3 hours ago, mdiemer said:

You can also block people whose posts,  writing style, age, or whatever,  you don't like.

Thanks for the advice, but that talks more about you than about me.

 

3 hours ago, mdiemer said:

But honestly, nobody cares if you're getting tired of reading opinions you disagree with.

Right, nobody seems to care... except you.

Edited May 26, 2021 by MarianoGF

[RBH]

I thought these Forums were new and " fangled ". It's the closest I ever came to  " social networking ". I might be a little older than you old farts though. Who needs young people  -  except maybe those other young people.

 

Oh... almost forgot  - get off my grass.  This is definitely Coffee house fodder.

Edited May 26, 2021 by RBH