Latest release of CbB choking system

[X-53mph]

I upgraded to the Current Release: 2021.04 yesterday and started getting problems with audio stuttering, dropping out and choking of the system.

I've been running previous versions of CbB seamlessly on my i5 laptop but the latest update is overloading the system.

I've found it doesn't play well with the Spitfire libraries, in particular Firewood piano and OPW.  Firewood can be a bit system heavy, but OPW has never caused me problems in the past. With the current build I am unable to run three Spitfire libraries on the same session, the whole system chokes up, stutters and stalls. If I add izotope or Raum, the system buckles completely.

I've rolled back to the previous build and, so far, it seems to have resolved the issue. I thought I'd report this here so the dev team can consider it.

Thanks

 

[Promidi]

What are your PC specifications (Including the iteration if the i5 CPU)?

I have a system as per my signature and I was able to load 6 Spitfire Originals instruments and it did not miss a beat.

See: my reply on

 

[X-53mph]

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

What are your PC specifications (Including the iteration if the i5 CPU)?

I have a system as per my signature and I was able to load 6 Spitfire Originals instruments and it did not miss a beat.

See: my reply on

I have an HP Pavilion laptop with Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU       M 430  @ 2.27GHz   2.27 GHz       RAM 8,00 GB (Maximum)   500GB SSD (Crucial)

 

 

[Promidi]

14 minutes ago, Philip G Hunt said:

I have an HP Pavilion laptop with Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU       M 430  @ 2.27GHz   2.27 GHz       RAM 8,00 GB (Maximum)   500GB SSD (Crucial)

That CPU is below minimum spec  (Clock speed is too low)

See:

https://help.cakewalk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021857753-What-are-the-minimum-requirements-for-using-Cakewalk-by-BandLab-

[X-53mph]

10 minutes ago, Promidi said:

That CPU is below minimum spec  (Clock speed is too low)

See:

https://help.cakewalk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360021857753-What-are-the-minimum-requirements-for-using-Cakewalk-by-BandLab-

It has been working absolutely fine for years with all previous incarnations of CbB (and all old versions of Sonar), as well as power/resource hungry tools such as Trillian/EastWest/Izotope etc.. I've only ever had problems with Iris 2 before.  So, telling me that my CPU is below minimum spec is not very helpful, I'm afraid.

A better question would be: What has changed in CbB from the previous version to the present to make it so much more resource hungry, or to make virtual instruments take up more resources where they didn't previously?

Surely the mark of a good DAW is one that can work efficiently without hogging resources needed by these other programs.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Philip G Hunt

[Promidi]

Cakewalk Support will probably tell you the same thing.....

[Michael Richards]

I am having the exact problem Philip is having. It just started with the 2021.04 update.

I have an old computer with only 12 gb of ram. Never had this issue.  Now I can only use 2 Spitfire instruments, and I use many of them in each project.

Please look into this. This may only happen on lesser gifted computers, but it never happened before.

‘Thank you, Michael

[X-53mph]

1 hour ago, Michael Richards said:

I am having the exact problem Philip is having. It just started with the 2021.04 update.

I have an old computer with only 12 gb of ram. Never had this issue.  Now I can only use 2 Spitfire instruments, and I use many of them in each project.

Please look into this. This may only happen on lesser gifted computers, but it never happened before.

‘Thank you, Michael

The worst thing about this is that even after rolling back, I'm still having issues with drop outs on Spitfire's OPW. It's never caused me problems before, and now all of a sudden it's killing my projects.

[X-53mph]

On 5/4/2021 at 4:07 PM, Michael Richards said:

I am having the exact problem Philip is having. It just started with the 2021.04 update.

I have an old computer with only 12 gb of ram. Never had this issue.  Now I can only use 2 Spitfire instruments, and I use many of them in each project.

Please look into this. This may only happen on lesser gifted computers, but it never happened before.

‘Thank you, Michael

Michael,

Did you roll back to the previous build? 

If yes, did it resolve the problem for you, or are you still having issues?

I've been happily running 20-30 track sessions with VSTs and effects for years with no issue, but since the last update, I'm getting serious choking even after rolling back. My most recent 3 track session with only spitfire instruments cannot play without audio drop outs and the audio engine stopping.

Is this the same for you?

[David Baay]

14 minutes ago, Philip G Hunt said:

I'm getting serious choking even after rolling back.

Check your system DPC Latency:

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

New hardware/firmware/driver updates can drive DPC latency up. Low is good - preferably no more that 200-300us (microseconds) - but stable without spikes is even more important.

Bluetooth and WiFi drivers are common offenders, especially BT.  They can be disabled in BIOS if/when not needed.

[Base 57]

I copied the following from the 2021.04 release notes. Maybe this could be the problem.

"Optimizations

High resolution plug-in automation improvements

Plug-in automation envelopes were previously being decimated at a uniform 50 msec interval. The automation rendering process has been redesigned to render at a much higher resolution of (default = 5 msec) and also make automation sample accurate (for VST3). For VST2 (or VST3 plug-ins that do not support sample accurate automation) the rendering will be buffer accurate. These improvements allows for much tighter sync when automating plug-in parameters synced to rhythm even at higher latencies. The higher resolution rendering also makes automating filter sweeps audibly smoother and without aliasing artifacts. The decimation interval can be changed via the audio configuration property AutomationDecimationMsec (2-30) in preferences."

[X-53mph]

38 minutes ago, David Baay said:

Check your system DPC Latency:

https://www.resplendence.com/latencymon

New hardware/firmware/driver updates can drive DPC latency up. Low is good - preferably no more that 200-300us (microseconds) - but stable without spikes is even more important.

Bluetooth and WiFi drivers are common offenders, especially BT.  They can be disabled in BIOS if/when not needed.

It's not hardware. It's not firmware. It's not drivers.

The only change was: before updating to the new CbB build everything worked seamlessly. After updating...shit show. 

[David Baay]

I long ago lost count of the number of reports of issues caused by updates that were eventually traced to some other root cause.

Rollback pretty much eliminates the updated code as a cause of the issue. I suppose it's possible some other system issue was precipitated by the download or installation process, but you should still check DPC Latency whether you believe anything else has changed or not.

Also, have you checked that interface driver mode and buffer size are unchanged...?

Edited May 5, 2021 by David Baay

[X-53mph]

31 minutes ago, David Baay said:

I long ago lost count of the number of reports of issues caused by updates that were eventually traced to some other root cause.

Rollback pretty much eliminates the updated code as a cause of the issue. I suppose it's possible some other system issue was precipitated by the download or installation process, but you should still check DPC Latency whether you believe anything else has changed or not.

Also, have you checked that interface driver mode and buffer size are unchanged...?

Honestly, the change in performance was so extreme that it can only be a problem with the update. And I am not the only one.

I usually have a very low buffer size for performance, and that has never caused problems like this before.

Rolling back fixed most performance problems. Increasing the decimation number improves  performance. Repeating the update brought the problems back. It's as simple as that. 

I have repeated it several times. I even uninstalled CbB completely and reinstalled the new version. Immediate problems. Roll back. Fixed-ish.

The fact that most people haven't experienced this does not negate the fact that it is happening.

I would stick my neck out and say...it has something to do with multiple instances of same brand VSTs.

If I've got raw audio only (or frozen tracks) there is no issue.

When I have 3 instances of Spitfire  instruments (and no other tracks) the session buckles.

I've gone from 20-30 track sessions running with effects and plugins to being unable to run 3 VSTs simultaneously.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Philip G Hunt

[Kevin Bias]

10 minutes ago, Philip G Hunt said:

Honestly, the change in performance was so extreme that it can only be a problem with the update. And I am not there only one.

I usually have a very low buffer size for performance, and that has never caused problems like this before.

Rolling back fixed most performance problems.R Increasing the decimation number improves  performance. Repeating the update brought the problems back. It's as simple as that. 

I have repeated it several times. I even uninstalled CbB completely and reinstalled the new version. Immediate problems. Roll back. Fixed-ish.

The fact that most people haven't experienced this does not negate the fact that it is happening.

I would stick my neck out and say...it has something to do with multiple instances of same brand VSTs.

If I've got raw audio only (or frozen tracks) there is no issue.

When I have 3 instances of Spitfire  instruments (and no other tracks) the session buckles.

I've gone from 20-30 track sessions running with effects and plugins to being unable to run 3 VSTs simultaneously.

Dude, I updated last night and am experiencing the same issue. Massive drop in performance. More than 3 or 4 Spitfire instances causes a fatal error, every time. I'm experiencing the same (so far) with Arturia Analog Lab.  On top of that, i'm all of a sudden experiencing issues with the cursor lining up to the grid. That i could deal with until they fix it, but for pete's sake the performance has dropped dramatically for me after this update. I just want to roll back, because I have important projects i need to work on. I imagine the same will happen with other VSTs I haven't used yet since the update. 

Edited May 5, 2021 by Kevin Bias
addendum to thought

[X-53mph]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Bias said:

Dude, I updated last night and am experiencing the same issue. Massive drop in performance. More than 3 or 4 Spitfire instances causes a fatal error, every time. I'm experiencing the same (so far) with Arturia Analog Lab.  On top of that, i'm all of a sudden experiencing issues with the cursor lining up to the grid. That i could deal with until they fix it, but for pete's sake the performance has dropped dramatically for me after this update. I just want to roll back, because I have important projects i need to work on. 

I know how you feel, and I'm glad you confirmed I'm not that only one. 

I really regret updating this time.  

Edited May 5, 2021 by Philip G Hunt

[Kevin Bias]

How do you roll back to the previous version? I haven't done that yet with Bandlab. I'm fairly new to it, previously used SONAR. Mind you, I'm running a Ryzen 2600 system with 32g of Ram. That's plenty of firepower and the thing ran like a dream before this update.

Edited May 5, 2021 by Kevin Bias

[X-53mph]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Bias said:

How do you roll back to the previous version? I haven't done that yet with Bandlab. I'm fairly new to it, previously used SONAR. Mind you, I'm running a Ryzen 2600 system with 32g of Ram. That's plenty of firepower and the thing ran like a dream before this update.

You'll find it here. There's a link on the first page.

 

 

[Kevin Bias]

Thank you sir. I'll give it a try and hopefully I don't end up in the same situation as you, although as Han Solo would say, i have a bad feeling about this

[Kevin Bias]

Bad news, it's still crashing and having issues despite the rollback, just like you. Ugh.