Using an external Pedal as effect in cakewalk?

[Marcello]

Hi there!

I have just purchased a really cool delay pedal from BOSS for my guitar.

Since I really love the sounds,  I'm wondering how can I use it with recording in cakewalk.

It has a MIDI output, but I have never used it I have no idea.

I also have some doubts, I'm basically recording my guitar tracks with some amp simulator plugin which has also digital effects included, despite this I would love to use my external pedal as effect, in this case I suppose it will be placed at the beginning of the effect chain (while usually the delay is at the end of the chain, even after the amp) since the signal will go to the pedal first, then external audio device then PC with amp sim and other effects, will this be bad in terms of 'sound quality'?

Anyone knows how do I record with an external pedal? SHould I actually use MIDI output of the pedal or simply go to the external audio device with the simple jack from the pedal?

 

[msmcleod]

You can use external effects using an External Insert...



...however, you may find that it increases latency too much as its having to make two round trips.

What I normally do is record 2 tracks for my guitar: one mono track with the dry guitar signal, and a stereo track coming out of my guitar effects.

You could do a similar thing using an ABY pedal or DI box: So your guitar goes into the Y input, output A goes directly to your audio interface; output B goes to your effects pedals and then on to your audio interface.

If you like what you've recorded, then you're good to go.

If you need to change things, unplug your effects from output B of your ABY and connect it to one of your audio outputs, insert an External Insert effect on the dry track,  tweak the effects and then either re-record on to another track... or just leave it as an external insert on your original dry track.

[Marcello]

10 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

You can use external effects using an External Insert...



...however, you may find that it increases latency too much as its having to make two round trips.

What I normally do is record 2 tracks for my guitar: one mono track with the dry guitar signal, and a stereo track coming out of my guitar effects.

You could do a similar thing using an ABY pedal or DI box: So your guitar goes into the Y input, output A goes directly to your audio interface; output B goes to your effects pedals and then on to your audio interface.

If you like what you've recorded, then you're good to go.

If you need to change things, unplug your effects from output B of your ABY and connect it to one of your audio outputs, insert an External Insert effect on the dry track,  tweak the effects and then either re-record on to another track... or just leave it as an external insert on your original dry track.

Thanks for the advice!

but I don't have neither one of these tools (ABY or DI box).

Without using one of these, what's the right solution?  I'm not sure how should I connect the Pedal, from the pedal MIDI output to the MIDI input of the audio device? or just with guitar cable from the pedal normal output to the audio device input?

I mean should I use MIDI or not?

[msmcleod]

37 minutes ago, Marcello said:

Thanks for the advice!

but I don't have neither one of these tools (ABY or DI box).

Without using one of these, what's the right solution?  I'm not sure how should I connect the Pedal, from the pedal MIDI output to the MIDI input of the audio device? or just with guitar cable from the pedal normal output to the audio device input?

I mean should I use MIDI or not?

Using MIDI won't help you at all.  All the MIDI is used for is to remotely control the pedal (or perhaps for matching delay to tempo) - it carries no audio signal at all.

If you just want to use the pedal as an effect, record your guitar dry as normal (i.e. plug the guitar directly into a Hi-Z input on your audio interface), then use a spare output on your audio interface to connect to the input of your pedal. The output of your pedal should go to a spare input on your audio interface.

Then use the "External Insert" plugin on your recorded guitar track to send the audio out to the pedal.

[msmcleod]

@Marcello - one thing I forgot to mention...

If your delay pedal is designed for a guitar's input, it may be expecting a Hi-Z level impedance input rather than the line level impedance your audio interface will be sending out.

Your pedal might accept a line level, in which case you're fine - check your pedal's user guide.

If it doesn't accept a line level, you might get away with turning the send level down, but really you need to match the impedance otherwise you'll get sub-standard quality. This can be done with a re-amp pedal (they're pretty easy to build if you want to save money):
 

 

 

[Marcello]

9 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@Marcello - one thing I forgot to mention...

If your delay pedal is designed for a guitar's input, it may be expecting a Hi-Z level impedance input rather than the line level impedance your audio interface will be sending out.

Your pedal might accept a line level, in which case you're fine - check your pedal's user guide.

If it doesn't accept a line level, you might get away with turning the send level down, but really you need to match the impedance otherwise you'll get sub-standard quality. This can be done with a re-amp pedal (they're pretty easy to build if you want to save money):
 

 

 

Great thanks!

I checked some of these on amazon and some of them are actually quite cheap, likt these ones, not sure about the quality though but should be fine I suppose

 

https://www.amazon.it/Stagg-canale-passive-interruttore-Stereo/dp/B0039OVVC0/ref=sr_1_14?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=di+box&qid=1619441393&sr=8-14

 

https://www.amazon.it/Monacor-24-1140-Direct-Box-DIB-100/dp/B000WWHOLO/ref=sr_1_7?__mk_it_IT=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&dchild=1&keywords=di+box&qid=1619441393&sr=8-7

[Marcello]

15 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@Marcello - one thing I forgot to mention...

If your delay pedal is designed for a guitar's input, it may be expecting a Hi-Z level impedance input rather than the line level impedance your audio interface will be sending out.

Your pedal might accept a line level, in which case you're fine - check your pedal's user guide.

If it doesn't accept a line level, you might get away with turning the send level down, but really you need to match the impedance otherwise you'll get sub-standard quality. This can be done with a re-amp pedal (they're pretty easy to build if you want to save money):
 

 

 

anyway here's my delay pedal  specs, I think should be fine also without the reamp box?

 

Nominal Input Level

INPUT A/MONO, B: -10 dBu

Maximum Input Level

INPUT A/MONO, B: +7 dBu

Input Impedance

INPUT A/MONO, B: 2 M ohm

Nominal Output Level

OUTPUT A/MONO, B: -10 dBu

Maximum Output Level

OUTPUT A/MONO, B: +7 dBu

Output Impedance

OUTPUT A/MONO, B: 1 k ohms

Recommended Load Impedance

OUTPUT A/MONO, B: 10 k ohms or greater

[John Vere]

I use a Zoom multi effects pedal all the time. I just get a sound I like and record it. 
Guitars like to feed an amp or a pedal. You get overall better tone that way. 
The important thing is you will be performing your best when you play with the effects and good tone. 
Playing guitar dry into an interface is uninspiring. 
So just plug your guitar into the pedal and the pedal into your interface 

If the pedal has stereo output then use 2 cables and record 2 tracks or a stereo track  If it also has a dry output then that would be a 3rd track as back up  

 

[Marcello]

5 minutes ago, John Vere said:

I use a Zoom multi effects pedal all the time. I just get a sound I like and record it. 
Guitars like to feed an amp or a pedal. You get overall better tone that way. 
The important thing is you will be performing your best when you play with the effects and good tone. 
Playing guitar dry into an interface is uninspiring. 
So just plug your guitar into the pedal and the pedal into your interface 

If the pedal has stereo output then use 2 cables and record 2 tracks or a stereo track  If it also has a dry output then that would be a 3rd track as back up  

 

The pedal has 2 outputs A(Mono) + B, but my audio interface has just one input for guitar jack ?

That's right usually the delay effects are much better in stereo right? mmm so at this point I'm F****?

Are you sure you cannot go with one jack output from pedal to the audio device and then in the DAW create a stereo track? won't that convert to stereo?

Edited April 26, 2021 by Marcello

[John Vere]

What it your interface? If it has a matched stereo pair you would use that. You don't necessarily have to use the guitar input because your pedal is the correct impedance and it's outputs are most likely designed to go direct into most audio equipment.   

And no-- a mono signal is a mono signal and does not become stereo in the DAW. All you would have is a recorded track with 2 of the exact same signals in both channels. 

Most of these type of effects sound better when recorded to stereo. A lot of folks will still use 2 mono tracks in Cakewalk instead of the stereo track because it gives you more control over panning placement.  

You can most certainly try recording as a mono track and if it sounds good then there you go.  Mostly with delay's they have slight to severe differences in the left and right side to make them sound wider. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by John Vere

[Marcello]

14 hours ago, John Vere said:

What it your interface? If it has a matched stereo pair you would use that. You don't necessarily have to use the guitar input because your pedal is the correct impedance and it's outputs are most likely designed to go direct into most audio equipment.   

And no-- a mono signal is a mono signal and does not become stereo in the DAW. All you would have is a recorded track with 2 of the exact same signals in both channels. 

Most of these type of effects sound better when recorded to stereo. A lot of folks will still use 2 mono tracks in Cakewalk instead of the stereo track because it gives you more control over panning placement.  

You can most certainly try recording as a mono track and if it sounds good then there you go.  Mostly with delay's they have slight to severe differences in the left and right side to make them sound wider. 

This is my sound card

 

[John Vere]

Bummer. That's gotta be the most minimal connectivity and feature set ever.  Doesn't even have balanced outputs.  Just RCA.  

So looks like your stuck with a mono guitar track or purchase an interface with better connectivity. 

Most 2x2 interfaces have a matched pair of multi purpose inputs.

Edited April 27, 2021 by John Vere

[Marcello]

On 4/27/2021 at 5:27 PM, John Vere said:

Bummer. That's gotta be the most minimal connectivity and feature set ever.  Doesn't even have balanced outputs.  Just RCA.  

So looks like your stuck with a mono guitar track or purchase an interface with better connectivity. 

Most 2x2 interfaces have a matched pair of multi purpose inputs.

Yea that's cool, maybe I can find a work around, my THU plugin amp sim in cakewalk takes the guitar in mono and has some options to spit it out in stereo, maybe I can try like that and put a stereo widener only on the delay track