The delusional world of Linux.

[kitekrazy]

 There's always someone requesting a Linux version of some DAW. Scott from Image-Line made a truthful reply that they wont devote time to an extremely small amount of users. Unfortunately delusional Linux users don't get that. Sure there is Bitwig, Tracktion, Mixbus. I have those and don't care to use them. I could build a DAW from scratch and have it up and running before attempting to use Linux.

  Some things that are often annoying about Linux users is they don't know how small or difficult their world is.   Some people think they are really cool because they can use it.  Others feel like they are giving the middle finger to MS.   They like to argue with Windows users more than Mac users.  Apple had a marketing ploy one time as how simple a Mac is.   While I'm a fan of open source software a developers webpage makes it obvious they use Linux.  There average person just wants to find the download with less tech speak.   Opening Mixbus has audio/midi setup.  Like I'm going to change that often? Aesthetically it's not really appealing.

 I've tried the Linux train before.  Once I forked out $80 for a modem just to use it.  One time I couldn't understand their geek speak and erased Windows.  Another time when I used USB wifi adapters there was this "easy peezy" way to get one running was to type characters in a command line (had no clue what they meant) only to have run but had to do this every time I booted it up.   Hardware support is lacking but don't tell the delusional Linux user that.  

 Linux is a failure in the retail market,  Wal-Mart had the Licorice PC, a Linux system by Dell was offered at Best Buy.  No buyers.  

 A large amount of computer users are still ignorant of how things work on a computer.    If someone like my mom could install and run Linux then it has reached prime time.   The Linux is easy crowd claim to fame is using a browser and email.   As for the world of multi media is like a male not having a prom date at a school where the female ratio is 10-1.   Let me know when Avid starts making the industry standard available for Linux.  The options for Linux are lame. Let me know when that famous producer starts using it.

  Then again I use a form of Linux everyday with a phone.  There is no real advantage over Apple.  There's an app for everything thing and it doesn't take much for you to run out of space. Some developers haven't figured out use that flash drive you added.  So if you run an Apple or Linux device there's on guarantee that developers will make your phone obsolete. I've bitched a Fry's Food for their inept developers making their app obsolete while competitors like Basha's and Alberton/Safeway still run and update on my phone.  So my purchases are now 70/30 in favor of Safeway. Never give your developers that much leeway.  The Fry's technology dept. is a great example of clueless developers out of touch with consumers. 

  I've heard all of the pro Linux arguments ,YAWN! I could copy and paste them all day.  They have the whole planet to convince it's the best but it aint happenin'.  It's like Charlie Brown wating for the Great Pumpkin to arrive after the bloody violent war between MS and Apple and they will be the survivors and rise above the ashes.  Even with the headaches of the evolving Windows 10 and Apple's pricing it's not going to happen.  

[abacab]

47 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Linux is a failure in the retail market

That is most likely because of it's reputation for being a too "techy" and difficult to use OS, and lacking commercial replacement applications for the Windows consumer.

But I think that with something like the latest Linux Mint, any granny could install it and be up and running in 15 mins without ever opening a command line interface. Perfect for those folks that just use a web browser all day. Very stable and secure, with decent native replacements for standard office suites and email apps.

That said, Windows power users and content creators will never be happy with the limited app ecosystem in Linux as it is today. As there are currently not enough desktop Linux users to attract quality developers and software companies to the Linux market. "Chicken or egg" thing.

By comparison, Linux servers are powering the majority of the internet and cloud computing servers, and has been a huge success. I believe that the majority of the Linux community are programmers or system admins. So, "techy" by trade. And the reason for much of the "buzzword bingo" on the Linux forums.

An interesting trend that I have noticed this year is the number of folks still running Windows 7, and flatly refusing to ever upgrade to Windows 10. They realize that Win7 support expires next year, so they are beginning to test various Linux distros as dual boot configs alongside their current Windows installations, to see if they are comfortable with using that as their main OS after Win7 end of life. Many of those same folks are also not interested in running straight towards the Apple camp. 

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by abacab

[kitekrazy]

BTW can Mint be run on an external device?

I guess that would depend on what you want to use.  Anyone I know that uses W7 for multimedia just keep it offline.    I don't know how much support one needs for W7.  I have one machine with W7 for Virtual XP.  I can still run my Canon Scanner that only have 32 bit drivers in virutal XP.  It's an older system that can't be upgraded. Any other virtual OS doesn't work for my scanner. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by kitekrazy

[abacab]

16 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

BTW can Mint be run on an external device?

Yes, you can run Mint from a USB flash drive in live Linux mode.

YUMI is a handy tool for creating a bootable USB flash drive from a downloaded Linux ISO image. https://www.pendrivelinux.com/yumi-multiboot-usb-creator/

It will allow you to create an optional "persistent" storage file on the USB drive so that you can store changes from session to session.

Get Linux Mint

[abacab]

25 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 Anyone I know that uses W7 for multimedia just keep it offline.    I don't know how much support one needs for W7.

For this scenario to keep Windows offline, you could install Mint with a dual boot setup. The Mint installer will resize your Windows partition to make room for the new Linux partition on the same hard drive, or allow you to put the Mint partition on a secondary internal drive. You will get a new boot menu whenever you start your machine, allowing you to choose which system to boot.

Need your multimedia? Just boot Windows and stay offline. Need to go online to kill time on forums or do web  searches? Just boot Mint and off you go!

[msmcleod]

I've always been more than comfortable with Ubuntu both for server & desktop systems.

In the past 15 years, I've gone from about 95% Windows development in my day job to 95% Linux development. Linux has pretty much won the server war.

At home I can pretty much do everything on an Ubuntu desktop for free (an most of the apps do actually come pre-installed with the distribution). You don't need to be a techie to use Ubuntu either - up until she got her new laptop, my wife was quite happy using Ubuntu for 3-4 years without any need of assistance (well, apart from installing the printer drivers). 

The only thing I can't do well is audio production.

The biggest problem with Linux is its lack of native audio drivers for pro audio interfaces. So whilst there's some good DAW's out there, like Rose Garden, Reaper, MixBus/Ardour,  N-track etc., you're limited with the hardware that you can use with them.

RME seems to a be a notable exception here, but I guess if you can afford RME gear, you're probably not that fussed about paying for an OS

The other issue is compatibility of plugins. Actually, most will work under WINE (this is after all what MUSE Receptor does), but they will run slower than on a native OS, and proprietary anti-piracy protection can be a real issue here.

It's a bit of a catch-22: people won't use Linux for audio because of lack of support, and hardware/plugin manufacturers won't support Linux because people aren't using it.

[kitekrazy]

I can do all of that on Windows and W10 didn't cost me anything.  It would suck to have that limited choice of DAWs.  Reaper isn't technically supported. 

I use to check the ALSA site to see if they ever had drivers for my Yamaha SW1000XG and then have a Linux box. No chance. 

 

[msmcleod]

7 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I can do all of that on Windows and W10 didn't cost me anything.  It would suck to have that limited choice of DAWs.  Reaper isn't technically supported. 

I use to check the ALSA site to see if they ever had drivers for my Yamaha SW1000XG and then have a Linux box. No chance. 

 

Yeah, the SW1000XG uses the same audio recording drivers as my DS2416 cards. I used to check the ALSA site too, but I've given up hope. 

It would need input from Yamaha, and they will no doubt refuse to make the needed technical details available. I'm part of an 01X group on Facebook, and a similar thing happened there when trying to get info on re-writing the 01X drivers. Luckily one of the group members managed to hack the existing drivers to work with Win 10.

[antler]

Linux has its advantages, but usability isn't one of them. Yes, there are 'easy' distributions like ubuntu but they become more difficult once you try to do anything system related. I was using ubuntu 16 LTS at work previously, and it was ok until I needed to update some apps or configure system permissions: yes the app is in the software store, but it was often an old version; you had to add the app creator's repository to your list of repositories, update them all, check them for updates, and install all through the command line. Web sites would often show you which commands to use so I could copy/paste, but the whole process just felt difficult for what it was (or at least to me).

[kitekrazy]

6 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Yeah, the SW1000XG uses the same audio recording drivers as my DS2416 cards. I used to check the ALSA site too, but I've given up hope. 

It would need input from Yamaha, and they will no doubt refuse to make the needed technical details available. I'm part of an 01X group on Facebook, and a similar thing happened there when trying to get info on re-writing the 01X drivers. Luckily one of the group members managed to hack the existing drivers to work with Win 10.

 Yamaha is the king of doorstops.  For what I paid I could have bought a RME Hammerfall that would still be running,

[kitekrazy]

5 hours ago, antler said:

Linux has its advantages, but usability isn't one of them. Yes, there are 'easy' distributions like ubuntu but they become more difficult once you try to do anything system related. I was using ubuntu 16 LTS at work previously, and it was ok until I needed to update some apps or configure system permissions: yes the app is in the software store, but it was often an old version; you had to add the app creator's repository to your list of repositories, update them all, check them for updates, and install all through the command line. Web sites would often show you which commands to use so I could copy/paste, but the whole process just felt difficult for what it was (or at least to me).

That pretty much how I sum it up. The delusional Linux user would disagree,

[Grem]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

 Yamaha is the king of doorstops.  For what I paid I could have bought a RME Hammerfall that would still be running,

 

I am really surprised at how much Yamaha and Roland start a product that is by no means cheap, and just one day, drop support for it. At one time I really had a lot of respect for these two companies. Not so much anymore.

 

I have been reading about Linux for years. I have never dipped my toe into the Linux waters. But I have always been one of the guys on the side cheering them on! Always hoping for something to start this big movement toward the free open source OS. Hasn't happened. As as time goes on it likely won't happen because

 

7 hours ago, msmcleod said:

It's a bit of a catch-22: people won't use Linux for audio because of lack of support, and hardware/plugin manufacturers won't support Linux because people aren't using it.

 

And not only for audio, for everything else also. Except surfing the web.

 

But you got to give it to Linux for taking the server market. They got that by the a$$. Even with MS might trying to force it's way into the lead, it has fallen short. I don't think they have given up, but certainly even they see the writing on the wall, no? : )

[Grem]

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

bought a RME Hammerfall that would still be running,

 

I thought about buying one of these back in the early days. But damn they wanted way more money than what I thought it was worth. Looking back now, what a fool I was!!  The money I would have spent on that would have saved me so much in frustration and work arounds. Also given me much better results than what I ended up with. Hind sight is everything! 

 

Sorry for going off topic.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Grem
Spelling of course!

[kitekrazy]

34 minutes ago, Grem said:

 

I thought about buying one of these back in the early days. But damn they wanted way more money than what I thought it was worth. Looking back now, what a fool I was!!  The money I would have spent on that would have saved me so much in frustration and work arounds. Also given me much better results than what I ended up with. Hind sight is everything! 

 

Sorry for going off topic.

Yamaha SW1000XG was $500.   Drivers weren't the so much as not being able to run on a nForce 2 chipset or Intel 900 series. The latency on them was 32ms by default Outside of a wind or string instrument I'd never buy anything with the Yamaha name on it.   They are too quick to create legacy products.

[Tezza]

I used Linux when I was building web pages, it's good for that. If I were building web pages again I would use it but that's all it's good for, internet surfing, mail and building web pages, as long as you have a printer with the option of Linux drivers. I wouldn't use it for photography, video editing or audio editing, too much stuffing about with limited options that always seem worse than windows software offerings.

[msmcleod]

4 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

Yamaha SW1000XG was $500.   Drivers weren't the so much as not being able to run on a nForce 2 chipset or Intel 900 series. The latency on them was 32ms by default Outside of a wind or string instrument I'd never buy anything with the Yamaha name on it.   They are too quick to create legacy products.

That's certainly true for some products - and especially computer products - but others seem to keep on going.

The 01v96 came out in 2003. The 01v96i is essentially the same, but with some firmware upgrades and USB audio support, and it's still on the market. 

And you can't knock them for parts... you can still buy parts for the original DX7.

To be honest though, I had a great run with my DS2416 cards. I bought my first one when it came out (1997 I think), and I only retired it 2 years ago. So 20 years of use, which isn't bad in anyone's books.

[Gswitz]

All class compliant interfaces work with Linux.

Regarding rme, totalmix and digicheck do not work on Linux.

Melda productions plugins work with wine.

I use a usb ssd for using laptops that aren't mine to make recordings with my rme. Works great. I do miss digicheck and totalmix.

If you want to try it, check Ubuntu studio... Super cool and tons of fun.

Mixbus is cool but not required. 

I do prefer sonar to mixbus most of the time. 

When exporting from mixbus you get some interesting recording metrics that i find helpful.

I have run sound and made non trivial live recordings booted to Linux.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Gswitz

[Gswitz]

I've often lusted after a yamaha 01V. Early versions were out in 1999. I have shopped them several times but I'm not steady enough live to justify it.

Edited March 31, 2019 by Gswitz

[msmcleod]

2 hours ago, Gswitz said:

I've often lusted after a yamaha 01V. Early versions were out in 1999. I have shipped them several times but I'm not steady enough live to justify it.

You'd be better off with a 02R. They go for around £300 ($400). They were closer to $10K when they came out.

The technology is much the same throughout the range of those products. More or less the same IC's are used in the DS2416, 01V, 01V96, 03D, 02R,  01V, ProMix 01 and 01X. The 02R was "the" pro digital mixer at the time. It's easy to expand too, with MADI, ADAT cards etc.

From what I hear though, practically no-one uses the EQ on these. It's neutral, but pretty uninspiring. On the upside, each of the 4 EQ's have the full range of frequencies.

They're still perfectly usable though.

[craigb]

I used Linux servers to run game servers in the late 90's (Quake, Half-Life and Counter Strike).  I had the second-most popular servers on the West Coast at one time (and was rated in the top-25 for Quake 1 players on a database of over 340,000 players - thank you low ping! ?).  Other than that, I've been pretty much strictly DOS/Windows for decades.

That said, .NET Core is now becoming stronger where the code you create can run on Windows, Apple or Linux so I'm guessing more stuff will be coming out soon.