Export By Track Folder

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

In addition to my request for Nested Folders can I also ask that we have the ability to Export By Folder

In the world of making music for TV & Film Libraries more and more of them are wanting stems.  The easiest way to organise stems is by Folder ( not busses ) so the ability to Export them would be a huge time saver   

Edited May 28, 2019 by CosmicDolphin

[Jim Fogle]

@CosmicDolphin

Forgive my ignorance in advance please.  My projects are small so I don't have experience using busses or track folders.

My question:  Why is it easier to organize stems by folders instead of busses?

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 5/21/2019 at 1:02 AM, fogle622 said:

@CosmicDolphin

Forgive my ignorance in advance please.  My projects are small so I don't have experience using busses or track folders.

My question:  Why is it easier to organize stems by folders instead of busses?

Hi Fogle622

Posted below are the delivery instructions from a music library I write for:-

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Your sessions need to be 48/24 and all files delivered need to be at this sample/bit rate. Once the cue is approved we will ask you to upload the full quality files to us in the following format:

a. CUE-TITLE__FULL-MIX (master file)

b. CUE-TITLE_NO-MELODY (minus mix)

c. CUE-TITLE_NO-DRUMS (minus mix)

d. CUE-TITLE_NO-ORCH (minus mix)

e. CUE-TITLE_NO-GUITARS (minus mix)

f. CUE-TITLE_NO-VOCALS / NO-CHOIR

g. CUE-TITLE_DRUMS-BASS (yes, we would like one stem with these combined and as follows, separated).

h. CUE-TITLE_DRUMS (stem)

i. CUE-TITLE_BASS

j. CUE-TITLE_GUITARS (should be split into rhythm, lead, acoustic, electric etc)

k. CUE-TITLE_SYNTHS (Synths need to be separated into different types. If you have pads it should be labeled SYNTH-PADS, if you have pulsing it should be labeled SYNTH-PULSES, if you have an arpeggiated part SYNTH-ARP etc)

l. CUE-TITLE_STRINGS

m. CUE-TITLE_BRASS

n. CUE-TITLE_CHOIR

o. CUE-TITLE_MELODY

p. CUE-TITLE_FX

q. CUE-TITLE_PIANO

The point here is that we would like FULL-MIX, Minus Mixes, and Stems that are labeled with appropriate elements per the style of track you are working in. Very Important comment about STEMS. All files need to be exactly the same length. No exceptions. If your Full Mix is 1.49 then all other files need to be exactly the same length even if the part doesn’t come in until the middle of the cue. Also, please always make sure the file ending does not cut off ring out. 

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So if you organise by busses , and those busses have processing on them you are assuming that every track routed to it will sit nicely in it's 'home' buss ..if this were true then yes it would be fine..but often times at some point during the mix there are some tracks which end up sounding better routed elsewhere than  bussed with similar instruments  and their subsequent processing. 

Take guitars as an example there might be 4 rhythm and 2 lead parts, all going to a buss labelled " Guitars " that has a little compression, some low end filtered out and a a send to a Delay buss. This might sound great on 5 of those guitars...but then there's one lead part that doesn't quite sound right ..what do you do..well you might re-route it straight to the Master Buss and add all your FX at track level therefore bypassing the settings on the rest of the guitars on the Guitar Buss.  Now the mix sounds better but the Guitar Buss no longer includes all guitars.

Far easier then to route every track to where it sounds best and then group them into folders..now you can solo all the guitars and bounce a stem regardless of where the tracks are routed.  

And if you could have sub-folders, as you can see from the above list it makes life easier  

[Jim Fogle]

CosmicDolphin,

I appreciate you taking time to educate me.  Obviously your production needs vary greatly from mine.  Thank you for taking time to give me a glimpse of your world.

[chuckebaby]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 1:38 PM, CosmicDolphin said:

And if you could have sub-folders, as you can see from the above list it makes life easier

Im not sure how you are exporting your stems but I typically do most of my stems all at one time/All in one folder. Using the export options.

Is there another software that has "Export stems to different folders" that you could show us as an example ? Im guessing not.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

23 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

I'm not sure how you are exporting your stems but I typically do most of my stems all at one time/All in one folder. Using the export options.

I don't quite understand what you mean as there is no Export Stems option in CBB ?

Just to be clear I am talking about a Stem being  Submix of a particular group of tracks  and a Folder being a Track Folder within CBB

So the Drum Stem would typically consist of the following tracks :  Kick - Snare - HH - Toms - Ride - Crashes - Overheads - Room  

I make 5 or 6  Track Folders and drop the relevant tracks into them. Typlically:  Drums - Bass - Percussion- Keys - Guitars - FX 

Each Stem must to include any and all processing used in the Full Mix so for example the Drums may have Parallel Compression, FX sends such as snare reverb étc.

Exporting the required Stems & Minus Mixes is just a case of muting and un-muting various combos of the 5 or 6  Track Folders and bouncing it as an " Entire Mix " with the correct sample rate etc. for the Library. Often 48/24 but not always.

Having sub folders would allow easier management of this process. So all the Guitars cold go into a folder but nested within that folder could be Lead & Rhymthm Guitars for example as those need to be exported together and separately ( see above list ) 

This is all fairly standard requirements when submitting to certain Film & TV Libraries 

[Starship Krupa]

I don't want to be "that guy" suggesting a workaround where you made a feature request, but my DAW chops were honed in Mixcraft, where folders and submixes are the same thing. And glory be, you can nest those puppies as deep as you want, which is fantastic, and I wish CbB worked that way.

So since it was so easy, I got in the habit of whenever I ran into something like your stray lead guitar, boom, that's another submix/folder, and you can do what you're talking about and export a stem right from that submix/folder. Unfortunately CbB doesn't work this way, but I still do.

How I'd emulate this in CbB is that I'd just slap another  bus in there called Stem Guitars (which is routed straight to the Master Bus for mixing purposes), and send the Guitars bus  and the stray lead guitar to the new  bus and it's pretty similar, although maybe not as tidy. Then I can export a "guitars" stem right off that bus. The routing can be accomplished quickly with astute use of the control key to Quick Group your Lead Guitar track and Guitars bus then hold down Ctrl when you route one of them to your new Stem Guitars bus. Both of them  should wind up being sent to the new Stem Guitars bus. If you leave ProChannel turned off on the Stem Guitars bus, you should have just what you need.

You can even make a new folder and plop all your guitars in there if you like.

I dunno, maybe this is how you're already doing it, but that would be my recipe.

I'd probably wind up making a template with 17 folders and buses with those stem names on them ready to route everything to if I had to make deliverables that fit that description on a regular basis. They would all be routed to the Master bus.

Then all my  usual buses for Strings and Drums and Guitars and whatnots would be routed to them as appropriate. When it came time to deliver stems, I'd be able to pull them from those buses, either directly or by muting the other buses.

Am I trippin'? Would this work for someone who regularly has to deliver their work in stems? We're doing what you suggest, but using buses instead of folders.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Starship Krupa

[msmcleod]

25 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

I don't want to be "that guy" suggesting a workaround where you made a feature request, but my DAW chops were honed in Mixcraft, where folders and submixes are the same thing. And glory be, you can nest those puppies as deep as you want, which is fantastic, and I wish CbB worked that way.

So since it was so easy, I got in the habit of whenever I ran into something like your stray lead guitar, boom, that's another submix/folder, and you can do what you're talking about and export a stem right from that submix/folder. Unfortunately CbB doesn't work this way, but I still do.

How I'd emulate this in CbB is that I'd just slap another  bus in there called Stem Guitars (which is routed straight to the Master Bus for mixing purposes), and send the Guitars bus  and the stray lead guitar to the new  bus and it's pretty similar, although maybe not as tidy. Then I can export a "guitars" stem right off that bus. The routing can be accomplished quickly with astute use of the control key to Quick Group your Lead Guitar track and Guitars bus then hold down Ctrl when you route one of them to your new Stem Guitars bus. Both of them  should wind up being sent to the new Stem Guitars bus. If you leave ProChannel turned off on the Stem Guitars bus, you should have just what you need.

You can even make a new folder and plop all your guitars in there if you like.

I dunno, maybe this is how you're already doing it, but that would be my recipe.

I'd probably wind up making a template with 17 folders and buses with those stem names on them ready to route everything to if I had to make deliverables that fit that description on a regular basis. They would all be routed to the Master bus.

Then all my  usual buses for Strings and Drums and Guitars and whatnots would be routed to them as appropriate. When it came time to deliver stems, I'd be able to pull them from those buses, either directly or by muting the other buses.

Am I trippin'? Would this work for someone who regularly has to deliver their work in stems? We're doing what you suggest, but using buses instead of folders.

I was about to suggest exactly this.

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 6/9/2019 at 11:45 AM, Starship Krupa said:

Am I trippin'? Would this work for someone who regularly has to deliver their work in stems? We're doing what you suggest, but using buses instead of folders.

Could be a workaround for some folks I guess, unfortunately it wouldn't really work for me that well. There are times that stray guitar or whatever actually sounds better when it's sent to another instrument's buss..like yesterday I rerouted and piano in a section of a pop track to the buss that was actually meant for the brass.

Many times I get near the end of a mix in an EDM track and if my kick needs to pop  more I'll just route it direct to the hardware out and it sounds perfect.

The folder method is just the job if only they can add sub-folders like many other DAWs 

[Starship Krupa]

12 hours ago, CosmicDolphin said:

There are times that stray guitar or whatever actually sounds better when it's sent to another instrument's buss..like yesterday I rerouted and piano in a section of a pop track to the buss that was actually meant for the brass.

Many times I get near the end of a mix in an  EDM track and if my kick needs to pop  more I'll just route it direct to the hardware out and it sounds perfect.

Indeed, I agree that nested folders and submixes would make your task much simpler.

There must be some way to adapt what I was suggesting, though, until such time as Cakewalk gets that feature. Perhaps by using Aux tracks? I would have to think about it more.

How do you deal with this situation now when you are faced with it? Do you fork the project and set up all the routing manually as requested by the client? Do you do it in another DAW?

[Mark Morgon-Shaw]

On 6/13/2019 at 7:55 AM, Starship Krupa said:

How do you deal with this situation now when you are faced with it? Do you fork the project and set up all the routing manually as requested by the client? Do you do it in another DAW?

Organise my main folders but deal with what would be sub folders manually.

[Starship Krupa]

I love the way Mixcraft implemented it. Every folder is a submix, with full FX rack, automation, everything, and you can nest them infinitely and take stems from any of them you wish. Drag and drop a submix into another submix and it's nested. You can expand and collapse them to save screen real estate as you wish.

The program also has buses that function just as buses do in Cakewalk.

Mixcraft was obviously strongly influenced by Sonar, and it would be nice to see the influence come back around to Cakewalk.