Best Hardware for a PC Upgrade? - Help pls

[musikman1]

On 3/4/2021 at 11:15 PM, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

we only recently started to get SKUs that are stable enough to reach 4GHz without requiring excessive amounts of energy or cooling.

Was just looking at the Ryzen 8 core/16 thread, up around $4-500, the 6 core/12 thread around $3-350.  I'd like to go 8 if I can get it and still keep the total upgrade budget manageable .

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by musikman1

[musikman1]

I'm not big on computer terminology, but I've noticed that some people will call a 6 core - 12 thread processor just "12 core", and an 8 core - 16 thread processor just "16 core".  Am I to assume that for example a 6 core - 12 thread is really a 12 core?

[MediaGary]

3 hours ago, musikman1 said:

I'm not big on computer terminology, but I've noticed that some people will call a 6 core - 12 thread processor just "12 core", and an 8 core - 16 thread processor just "16 core".  Am I to assume that for example a 6 core - 12 thread is really a 12 core?

Watch out for people who get lazy with terminology in the world of computers! It's deadly.

The Intel Hyperthreading and AMD Symmetrical Multithreading are both technologies that provide two threads per physical computer core;  hence the 6/12 or 8/16, etc. terminology.

[musikman1]

2 hours ago, MediaGary said:

Watch out for people who get lazy with terminology in the world of computers! It's deadly.

The Intel Hyperthreading and AMD Symmetrical Multithreading are both technologies that provide two threads per physical computer core;  hence the 6/12 or 8/16, etc. terminology.

I see, well when it comes to certain computer parts, nothing is crystal clear to me anyway. I do have a reliable computer tech who does my upgrades, so I trust him. 

There are two choices I'm looking at, and I'm wondering if there would really be much difference between these two processors.  I'm just running Cakewalk, but I do use some CPU heavy plugins, and mostly audio tracks as opposed to MIDI tracks. Sometimes I use Sony Vegas to do some small video projects as well. 

5600x...  https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=asc_df_B08166SLDF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475750632217&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18174886754171346090&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002211&hvtargid=pla-1038719530487&psc=1

5800x... https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5800X-16-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815XFSGK/ref=pd_rhf_cr_s_pd_crcd_5?pd_rd_w=BkGaU&pf_rd_p=8019ba47-0a12-4976-b76b-5c932d60db6f&pf_rd_r=SSP9GZEH6HN6629QG198&pd_rd_r=4d79c963-35eb-4b1f-b459-4a770dcbfb13&pd_rd_wg=HHYQS&pd_rd_i=B0815XFSGK&psc=1

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong,..... so I'm guessing that pairing the less expensive 5600x 6core/12thread with 32GB RAM and a fast SSD drive would be sufficient for what I'm doing in CW?  Or is it gonna be that much difference in performance/speed to go with the more expensive 5800x 8core/16thread? 

See, right now I have a 3core/6thread (which I originally thought was just a "6 core" (there's that terminology again!), and CWbB performance meter is showing 6 separate core measurements for it, so I assume the CWbB meter will show 12 for the 5600x and 16 for the 5800x.  I could actually keep the processor I have but I'm upgrading everything else, so I may as well follow suit with the processor as well, rather than doing it separately later on.

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by musikman1

[mike2mars]

On 3/13/2021 at 4:49 PM, musikman1 said:

I see, well when it comes to certain computer parts, nothing is crystal clear to me anyway. I do have a reliable computer tech who does my upgrades, so I trust him. 

There are two choices I'm looking at, and I'm wondering if there would really be much difference between these two processors.  I'm just running Cakewalk, but I do use some CPU heavy plugins, and mostly audio tracks as opposed to MIDI tracks. Sometimes I use Sony Vegas to do some small video projects as well. 

5600x...  https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5600X-12-Thread-Processor/dp/B08166SLDF/ref=asc_df_B08166SLDF/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=475750632217&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18174886754171346090&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002211&hvtargid=pla-1038719530487&psc=1

5800x... https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-5800X-16-Thread-Processor/dp/B0815XFSGK/ref=pd_rhf_cr_s_pd_crcd_5?pd_rd_w=BkGaU&pf_rd_p=8019ba47-0a12-4976-b76b-5c932d60db6f&pf_rd_r=SSP9GZEH6HN6629QG198&pd_rd_r=4d79c963-35eb-4b1f-b459-4a770dcbfb13&pd_rd_wg=HHYQS&pd_rd_i=B0815XFSGK&psc=1

Ok, correct me if I'm wrong,..... so I'm guessing that pairing the less expensive 5600x 6core/12thread with 32GB RAM and a fast SSD drive would be sufficient for what I'm doing in CW?  Or is it gonna be that much difference in performance/speed to go with the more expensive 5800x 8core/16thread? 

See, right now I have a 3core/6thread (which I originally thought was just a "6 core" (there's that terminology again!), and CWbB performance meter is showing 6 separate core measurements for it, so I assume the CWbB meter will show 12 for the 5600x and 16 for the 5800x.  I could actually keep the processor I have but I'm upgrading everything else, so I may as well follow suit with the processor as well, rather than doing it separately later on.

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

The 8 cores will give you more headroom (more plugins)vs the 6 cores but wont make things go actually faster  (mixing down audio), you still can only go as fast as each core is limited to, thats why checking single threaded score is still relevant but probably the most important in judging a cpu, and in that case the 5600x and 5800x are about even in single threaded score, so no performance advantage in everday use but more headroom to do things,  and why you should consider the 11700 which is the same as the 5800x but cheaper..   Personally id go intel just because ive read too many issues that involved AMD and stability which i dont want to deal with but im sure isnt the norm,.  Ithink AMD handles memory differently so I would be curiouse to see how plugin latency which in part relys on memory speed to lower buffers performs on AMD.  But without testing we'll never know and why with intel you know nothing funky is going to happen and with the prices become a better choice imo.  With that said your 3core cpu is most likely light years behind in single threaded perfromancethat any upgrade in the cpu to a modern one would be a nice upgrade.  The x5600 being a good choice because its up there on the single threaded side, x3700 being a worse choice since its low on the scale, a 11700 being a better overall choice i believe.

Edited May 14, 2021 by mike2mars

[Jim Roseberry]

On 3/4/2021 at 11:15 PM, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

Only thing Intel CPUs are still king is single core performance, which is becoming less and less important nowadays

Single core performance is still extremely important... especially if you're pushing the limits of ultra low latency performance.

ie: Let's say you have a Thunderbolt audio interface that yields 1ms total round-trip latency at 96k using a 32-sample ASIO buffer size.

With those settings, you can play/monitor thru plugins like Helix Native with 1ms round-trip latency (equal to or better than the Hardware).

At those settings (96k/32-sample ASIO buffer), the machine has ~half a millisecond to process the next ASIO buffer and get it in cue for playback.

This is not something that lends itself to being heavily multi-threaded (spread across multiple cores).

If anything interrupts this process, you'll hear glitches.

 

If you try doing to above with the Threadripper 3970x (~$2000), you'll hear glitches.

The 10900k (~$500) can do the above with zero glitches.

 

The new 11900k shows performance improvement in many benchmarks (vs the 10900k), but there were some changes in architecture that make it more latent.

If you're pushing the limits at ultra low latency (32-sample ASIO buffer size or smaller), the 11900k is a step backward.

 

The newer Ryzen Vermeer series (5xxx series) has greatly improved low latency performance.

The 5950x (~$800) can run the above example glitch-free.

Unlike Threadripper (280w TDP), the 5950x is a much more manageable (quiet) 105w TDP.

 

 

[craigb]

On 2/14/2021 at 4:12 AM, Bruno de Souza Lino said:

The interesting thing about the AMD FX CPUs is that they aged well, unlike their Intel counterparts. You can still get somewhat of a decent performance with a FX8370 or 8350 with sufficiently fast RAM and a ssd.

Definitely!  I'm FINALLY replacing mine after many years of use and, mostly, because a dying power supply damaged many of the components.

It was an AMD FX-6300 Six-Core Processor at 3.5 GHz with 16 GB of RAM.

Jim's building me (right now!) a new box with an i9-10900k CPU (ten cores / 20 processing threads) at 5.3GHz.  I'm starting with 64 GB of RAM, but with only two sticks so I can easily go to 128 GB if ever wanted (I need the machine for a database number-crunching project I'm currently programming and that WILL use the RAM!).  Down the road, I expect this box to become my new DAW and I'll probably get AMD for a gaming computer (once I have the time to actually game again - lol).

[musikman1]

Thanks for the computer lessons guys, much appreciated! I did end up going with the x5600 - 6core-12thread, but I don't have the computer back yet, so I can't say anything about how it performs until then.  I did talk to my tech who is doing the job, and he said he also has a x5600 in one of his PCs and he describes it as "a beast", he obviously likes the performance.  I know that performance when it comes to music production is different in many ways compared to just regular computer tasking, so we'll see how it goes when I get it back. I'm sure that the SSD drives I had him install will make a huge difference too, they're rated at 3400mbps I believe, and that's probably 5 times or more faster transfer rate than my old spinning WD HDD.   Plus a bump in RAM from 8GB to 32GB should be an improvement as well.

[Jesse Screed]

congrats, I am jealous. 

true, there was some good advice in this thread

my computer is going on 7 years old, but keeps pace for what I DO

You probably know this. but I learned the hard way, a good filing system is very condusive to efficient workflow

let us know how it rolls

[rfssongs]

Consider more RAM on what you have. Freeze your tracks keep your overhead down.

Sounds like your system is newer than mine.

[musikman1]

Hi, well I just got my upgraded PC back and in the process of checking everything and getting set up again. I have an annoying problem in that Cakewalk is not seeing my midi controller keyboard.  I checked in Windows Device Mgr and it is showing up there and showing that it is working properly, but CW still doesn't see it.  It just is not listed in CW Preferences/MIDI/Devices.  The only difference I can think of is when I upgraded my PC, I now have all 3.0 and 3.1 USB ports, I no longer have any 2.0 USB ports, however, all the 3.0 and 3.1s are backwards compatible, and the ports must be ok because Windows is recognizing it, but CW is not. I've gone through a few old threads here, but nothing seems to be helping.  It is an old M-Audio MK-361C, but it had always worked fine before I upgraded my PC. 

I suck at driver installation, but I did try anyway to uninstall the driver and re-install, but when I went to uninstall I got a message that I would need to close the USB MIDI Series Audio Device Mgr before I can uninstall it. Not sure what that is, so I just canceled the uninstall.  Is there something I can do other than uninstalling and re-installing the driver?

[abacab]

If Windows sees a device, then Cakewalk should as well.

[musikman1]

Yes that's what I thought too, it is listed in device mgr in windows, but when I open CW it's not showing as a midi device option.  One thing I thought of is I have yet to authorize my new windows since the pc upgrade, I have to get the new reg code from my tech, maybe that's what's causing the issue. Maybe after that it will work, I'll give it a try, then if not I'll try re-installing the driver, could be corrupted driver. 

[abacab]

1 hour ago, musikman1 said:

Yes that's what I thought too, it is listed in device mgr in windows, but when I open CW it's not showing as a midi device option.  One thing I thought of is I have yet to authorize my new windows since the pc upgrade, I have to get the new reg code from my tech, maybe that's what's causing the issue. Maybe after that it will work, I'll give it a try, then if not I'll try re-installing the driver, could be corrupted driver. 

Even if the drivers are installed, If a USB controller device was unplugged or powered off when Cakewalk was started, it will not be recognized by Cakewalk. Make sure that it's plugged in and powered on before starting Cakewalk.

And a reboot with the device connected and powered on never hurts!

[musikman1]

It was plugged in and turned on when I powered up just now, but I'll give a reboot with it connected to see if that will work, thanks!

Ok, nope, that didn't work. I have a call in to my pc tech, he should be able to figure it out.  This midi keyboard is very old, plus it is M-Audio, and typically their drivers can be a pain.  I like the feel of this keyboard, which is the ONLY reason I keep using it, but I think it's time to retire it and get something else, once I have the funds to get a new one. This should be a simple issue to fix. 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by musikman1

[kitekrazy1]

58 minutes ago, musikman1 said:

It was plugged in and turned on when I powered up just now, but I'll give a reboot with it connected to see if that will work, thanks!

Ok, nope, that didn't work. I have a call in to my pc tech, he should be able to figure it out.  This midi keyboard is very old, plus it is M-Audio, and typically their drivers can be a pain.  I like the feel of this keyboard, which is the ONLY reason I keep using it, but I think it's time to retire it and get something else, once I have the funds to get a new one. This should be a simple issue to fix. 

 

I had the same issue with the original Oxygen 8.  Some DAWs would see it and some not.  I don't get it either. 

[abacab]

If you really like the keyboard, you could always use the old school 5-pin DIN-MIDI out connector from the M-Audio MK-361C, instead of USB.

Many audio interfaces (and some keyboards) also offer a DIN-MIDI connection input, as well as there are some dedicated USB MIDI interfaces that could do the job of getting the keyboard MIDI into your PC. Cakewalk should see those alternative MIDI ports as available MIDI inputs.

In Cakewalk for example, my Arturia Keylab Mk II shows both MIDI in and out ports from the physical MIDI ports on the rear of that USB connected keyboard. So I could piggy-back a legacy MIDI device from the Arturia if I needed to.

[Michael Fogarty]

have you tried uninstalling, installing drivers? Do you have a stand alone VST you can try the keyboard with?

[musikman1]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.  The very strange thing about this, is that Windows has it listed in Device Mgr as working properly.  To top it off, today while Cakewalk was open, I shut the power switch to the keyboard and Cakewalk threw a message up that the device has been disconnected and do I want CW to reroute, I chose No. Then when I turned the power back on, Cakewalk asked me if I wanted to Add the device, so I hit the Yes button to add it, but as you can see in the 3rd image, its still not showing up in Preferences/MIDI/Devices.  I also tried closing CW after than and re-opening, but didn't work. Same result

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by musikman1

[musikman1]

Also, I read an old thread posted by Scook directing to another forum that was regarding multiple instances in Device Mgr, which I had. You can see a few grayed out listed along with the solid colored one. I did delete those last night to try to see if that would work, but so far no luck.  Here's the thread....

https://www.harmonycentral.com/articles/modules-and-midi/solving-the-windows-midi-port-problem-r309/

It also mentions windows only allowing 10 entries. This is way above my pc knowledge, so I only deleted the duplicates for my keyboard that were grayed out and left the one solid color entry.  I'm not sure what all the others are, possibly equip that my pc tech had connected when he did the upgrade, so with not being able to distinguish what the others are until I can speak to him, I just left them alone, which makes more than 10 entries.  Still doesn't explain why CW doesn't list it.....also I have a stand alone B3 organ that is also no longer recognizing the keyboard, so it appears it's not just CW.