MIDI issue: Patch change does not send MSB

[MainMix]

Hi, I discovered an issue with the patch selection feature of a midi channel.

My instrument (Kawai MP7SE) awaits MSB 0, LSB 0/1/2/3 and a patch no. (1..128) for changing patches/setups.
If MSB is not sent, the instrument will not switch setups (LSB  2 and 3).

When I select the bank and patch on the track settings (I created an instrument definition), Cakewalk only sends the LSB and patch no. but not the MSB although the "bank selected method" of my instrument definition is set to "normal".

When I insert a "Bank/Patch Change" into the track (using the same instrument definition), it works (if the insert position is later than 00:00:00:00) - MSB 0 is sent correctly.

This behaviour can easily be confirmed by using a virtual MIDI port (e.g. loopMIDI) and MIDI-OX for monitoring the events.

Is it a bug? If so, I hope it will be fixed soon since new updates are coming out frequently for Cakewalk by BandLab which I like very much ?

Edited November 21, 2020 by hanswurst
typo

[John]

I don't think its a bug. It is possibly an incorrect instrument definition file. I would go through it line by line and be sure it is correct. I use MIDI and hardware synths too. 

[MainMix]

No, the ins file is correct.
As I wrote - it works when I insert a "Bank/Patch Change" into the track using the same instrument definition.

I did the test with MIDI-OX and can see the difference between the inserted event and the event of the "bank/patch change in track settings".

[msmcleod]

54 minutes ago, hanswurst said:

No, the ins file is correct.
As I wrote - it works when I insert a "Bank/Patch Change" into the track using the same instrument definition.

I did the test with MIDI-OX and can see the difference between the inserted event and the event of the "bank/patch change in track settings".

can you post a copy of your ins file?

I had a similar issue with the Yamaha XG ins file, and a small edit to the ins file sorted it.

[MainMix]

11 hours ago, msmcleod said:

can you post a copy of your ins file?

I had a similar issue with the Yamaha XG ins file, and a small edit to the ins file sorted it.

Sure, I attached the ins file.
As you can see, the patches of banks 1 and 2 are named. Bank 3 and 4 (these are the setups) are not named yet, but that doesn't matter in this case.

If the ins file would be wrong, it should not work with the inserted "Bank/Patch Change event", but it does.
The ins file works fine with MIDI-OX because MIDI-OX always sends the MSB 0 correctly.

Kawai MP7SE.ins

[msmcleod]

29 minutes ago, hanswurst said:

Sure, I attached the ins file.
As you can see, the patches of banks 1 and 2 are named. Bank 3 and 4 (these are the setups) are not named yet, but that doesn't matter in this case.

If the ins file would be wrong, it should not work with the inserted "Bank/Patch Change event", but it does.
The ins file works fine with MIDI-OX because MIDI-OX always sends the MSB 0 correctly.

Kawai MP7SE.ins 4.67 kB · 1 download

I'm not seeing this issue, either with setting the bank/program in the inspector, or by using the patch browser.

In both cases, both MSB & LSB, plus the program change are being sent:



I take it you have definitely set the MIDI Output channel in the inspector?

As the instrument file mapping is per output device/channel, you need to set the channel output - leaving it as none will mean nothing gets sent out:

 

 

[user 905133]

I tried your *.ins file with another manufacturer's gear that uses the same bank switching method used in your *.ins file.  Changing the [ B ] ank and [ P ] atch values in the track control widgets successfully changed the Bank [MSB/LSB] and Patch on my sound module. Hope this helps you sort out the issue.

Edited November 21, 2020 by User 905133
Didn't know [B] changes the forum font to bold

[MainMix]

Thanks for the advices. Unfortunately the problem cannot be solved so easily.
I try to describe in more detail and with screenshots how to reproduce the issue:

First, I create a virtual MIDI port (using loopMIDI) that I can use for MIDI input monitoring via MIDI-OX.

In Cakewalk, I connect the "loopMIDI Port 1" with my instrument file "Kawai MP7SE".

In MIDI-OX, I only select the MIDI Input "loopMIDI Port" to make sure nothing else interferes...

... and open the "Input monitor".

In Cakewalk, I select a bank and patch on the "track settings panel".

The MIDI-OX Input monitor monitors an LSB and a Patch-Change event, but no MSB:

Now back in Cakewalk, I insert a "Bank/Patch Change" event somewhere into the track (not position 00:00:00:00)...

... and let the song play until it reaches the event.

MIDI-OX monitors the following:

As you can see - this time, Cakewalk sent the MSB and the LSB before the Patch Change - this is correct!

 

Unfortunately, my instrument "Kawai MP7SE" does not change into "setup mode" if it does not receive the MSB event, that's why I can change patches but I cannot change to setups via the "track settings panel".

I hope that you now understand my problem and why I think it could be a bug in the software.

[msmcleod]

11 hours ago, hanswurst said:

....Unfortunately, my instrument "Kawai MP7SE" does not change into "setup mode" if it does not receive the MSB event, that's why I can change patches but I cannot change to setups via the "track settings panel".

I hope that you now understand my problem and why I think it could be a bug in the software.

I understand the problem, but if I perform exactly the same steps as you have, MIDIOX always shows both MSB & LSB being sent when the Bank Select method is set to "Normal".

You could try forcing the method to always use normal by adding the following to your .ins file:

 

[MainMix]

11 hours ago, msmcleod said:

I understand the problem, but if I perform exactly the same steps as you have, MIDIOX always shows both MSB & LSB being sent when the Bank Select method is set to "Normal".

You could try forcing the method to always use normal by adding the following to your .ins file:

 

Thank you very much - that worked!

The "Bank Select Method" was shown as "Normal" before already but after inserting the line "BankSelMethod=0" into the ins file and re-importing it, the issue is gone ?.

So I learned that it is always a good idea to specify the "BankSelMethod" in the ins file, even if it is the default one (0).