Bad latency, but worse with ASIO than with MME32

[Matt R]

I actually have Sonar but that forum has been closed so I'm posting here instead.

I have my buffers set to 64 samples (but it won't go lower than 4 buffers without glitches so really that is the same as one buffer of 256 samples), I use 24-bit sound at 96 KHz.

This gives me my best latency of 35 ms (it had been 60 ms before I went online and followed all the advice I could find).

All over the internet I see people saying that a buffer of 1024(!) samples should give me latency of 23 ms at 44.1 KHz. That's frustrating to say the least. I'm using a buffer 4 times smaller and more than double the sample rate. My maths skills tell me that should work out as a very low latency.

I get the same latency when recording MIDI (yes, even if I'm using my keyboard as the sound source and the PC is only acting as a sequencer).

Switching to ASIO drivers increases the latency by around 10-20 ms.

None of this matches up with the advice I read online so I am at a loss as to how to go about improving this.

 

The flaws in my setup up are:

1) I'm using a laptop (first and last time I'm wasting money on one of those)

2) It's only an i5 (I thought battery life was a valid concern but I only ever use it plugged into the wall so oops)

3) The sound card (Realtek) is just a chip on the motherboard (i.e. a toy)

[I'm aware I should not really expect <14 ms because I don't possess the hardware to achieve that but 30 ms is huge]

 

I currently find the PC unusable so record using my Tascam multitrack but it would be convenient to be able to use the PC as a sketchpad for times when I'm not at home and I get ideas.

 

I have tried asking Acer for advice but they took 3 months to tell me that they have no idea and would I like to book it in for one of their technicians to check whether there are any hardware faults (not free). I'm noticing a pattern that not many people seem to understand why latency matters. It used to affect frames per second in games so there used to be motivation to reduce latency but now it seems to be more about how many gimmicky features it offers rather than performance. I see people discussing things like slightly delayed footstep sounds and other unimportant things like that.

 

Can anyone help?

[msmcleod]

If you're using the on-board device, try WASAPI.

In order of best performance, the driver choice should be:

1. ASIO
2. WASAPI
3. WDM/KS
4. MME32

[rsinger]

I'm not aware of ASIO drivers for Realtek HW. The ASIO4ALL isn't really ASIO. You want ASIO drivers written for your HW, not something generic. If you're concerned with latency you'll want to get an external device. My DAW is a tower, but I also use a laptop with a Roland Quad-Capture. IIRC it has a latency around 10 - 12 ms and the clock speed is nothing special - 2 to 2.9 ghz.

[CJ Jacobson]

Quote

3) The sound card (Realtek) is just a chip on the motherboard (i.e. a toy)

If you care about latency, then do not use the on-board sound chip. Get a dedicated audio interface with drivers written for audio production

 

[Larry Jones]

The sad truth is that a dedicated audio interface with ASIO drivers is the first step toward reducing latency. The good news is that such interfaces can be had for less than $100. Meantime WASAPI is the best driver for you. Also, make sure you have not inserted processor-intensive plugins (such as phase linear compressors) anywhere in your project. In fact, turn them all off to see if that helps, than maybe you can find the culprit(s).

[Noel Borthwick]

Try using Cakewalk by BandLab which is an enhanced version of SONAR Platinum. The WASAPI support is much better and you should get at least 10 msec with onboard audio like the realtek if you are using WASAPI shared mode. With WASAPI exclusive you should be able to go a little lower.

[Starship Krupa]

7 hours ago, Matt R said:

The flaws in my setup up are:

1) I'm using a laptop (first and last time I'm wasting money on one of those)

2) It's only an i5 (I thought battery life was a valid concern but I only ever use it plugged into the wall so oops)

3) The sound card (Realtek) is just a chip on the motherboard (i.e. a toy)

4) You're using obsolete, unsupported software

Seriously, just go get Cakewalk. It's better in every way, and you can still use all of the premium stuff that came with your Platinum suite.

Then go to www.piriform.com  and download Speccy. Run it so that you can tell us how much RAM you have, whether your disk is an SSD, a 5700, 7200, what speed and generation that i5 is, etc.

Just to let you know, I have a fairly ancient Dell Inspiron i5 notebook that ran Cakewalk like a champ with 4GB of RAM, since upgraded to 8GB. 7200RPM HD, soon to be upgraded to an SSD just because I can get one for $30.

That Realtek chip is not "just a toy." It's rudimentary, but I've gotten some good work done with it. It's fine for mixing and monitoring, and if I connect a mixer to the input, I get decent captures. I have a Midiman UNO, and the system is a nice little porta-rig. It hasn't choked on anything that I've started on the main i7 system.

Make sure to defrag. Piriform has a nice defragger, too, called Defraggler.

Download the FREE versions of these utilities.

[msmcleod]

3 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

4) You're using obsolete, unsupported software

Seriously, just go get Cakewalk. It's better in every way, and you can still use all of the premium stuff that came with your Platinum suite.

Then go to www.piriform.com  and download Speccy. Run it so that you can tell us how much RAM you have, whether your disk is an SSD, a 5700, 7200, what speed and generation that i5 is, etc.

Just to let you know, I have a fairly ancient Dell Inspiron i5 notebook that ran Cakewalk like a champ with 4GB of RAM, since upgraded to 8GB. 7200RPM HD, soon to be upgraded to an SSD just because I can get one for $30.

That Realtek chip is not "just a toy." It's rudimentary, but I've gotten some good work done with it. It's fine for mixing and monitoring, and if I connect a mixer to the input, I get decent captures. I have a Midiman UNO, and the system is a nice little porta-rig. It hasn't choked on anything that I've started on the main i7 system.

Make sure to defrag. Piriform has a nice defragger, too, called Defraggler.

Download the FREE versions of these utilities.

Defraggler is excellent on a normal HD - just don't run it on an SSD! Hopefully Defraggler is clever enough not to bother trying on an SSD, but just in case... don't, else you'll wear it out prematurely for practically no gain.

[Tezza]

What ASIO drivers are you talking about? I would just try ASIO 4 ALL first to see if that works for you. It most probably will. I wouldn't get hung up on milliseconds and staring at dialog boxes, use your ears. Your problem is the realtek chip is not ordinarily suitable for multitrack recording in a DAW environment. They developed ASIO 4 ALL specifically for this purpose so you can have access to an ASIO driver for your DAW on your laptop to reduce latency. You may need to switch your recording to 16bit as well. Plenty of people use it successfully for their needs in situations just like yours.

The ideal situation would be, as suggested, to get a dedicated audio device that comes with dedicated ASIO drivers. Your i5 and laptop are not the real concern here.

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, msmcleod said:

Defraggler is clever enough not to bother trying on an SSD

When pointed at an SSD, Defraggler has an option called "Optimize." It will warn if you attempt a conventional defrag on an SSD that it won't do much good and will only wear it out faster.

I don't know what "Optimize" does.

[abacab]

I run Sonar Platinum on an old laptop (not my DAW) using the on-board RealTek audio chip for playback of virtual instruments. I am running Windows 10 on it with the free ASIO4ALL, with very little latency.

I'm not set up for recording audio with it, but with a compact keyboard and headphones, it makes an OK traveling companion to play some virtual instruments on.

If I was actually going to use the laptop as a DAW though, I would at least invest in something like a small  Focusrite Scarlett USB audio interface. https://focusrite.com/usb-audio-interface/scarlett/scarlett-2i2

[azslow3]

Modern Realtek chips do have ASIO driver. And the latency can me  quite low with it ( under 7ms, so not worse then most dedicated interfaces). Some notebook manufacturers have branded drivers with "forgotten" ASIO part (or just control panel part of it). I had that issue with Dell XPS.

Older chips can be used with WASAPI or ASIO4ALL. All such chips I have tested had between 10ms and 16ms usable latency. For MIDI tasks that is sufficient.

Note that unlike with native ASIO drivers, latency reported from other drivers (including ASIO4ALL) is wrong in most cases. So do not trust "I have 3ms latency with Realtek!"  posts. But you should be able to get under 20ms even in worse scenario.