How to make lots of linked MIDI clip copies?

[JohnK]

How do I make multiple copies of MIDI linked clips?

To put it into a practical example, lets say I am building a new project, and start with a single bar kick pattern. If I want 120 bars of the same kick pattern as a linked clip, currently I click and drag the first bar to the second bar holding the ctrl-key down, and then select the two bars and click and drag while holding the ctrl-key to up it to four bars and so on until I either get to 120 bars, or more likely the number of bars being dragged gets unmanageable.

There must be a better way! is there?

[scook]

paste special

 

[JohnK]

Thanks, that looks exactly like what I was looking for. Just being a little picky, in the image above, I select "Link to Original Clip(s)" AND "Linked Repetitions".

The confusing thing, when trying/testing it, if I do not click "Linked Repetitions" but only "Link to Original Clips", from what I am seeing, it creates the first repetition as a linked clip and then all the rest as independent clips. Am I understanding the behavior correctly? It just seems like a strange behavior which I cannot think of a time I would of sought for it. Of course, everyone has a different use.

[scook]

10 minutes ago, JohnK said:

if I do not click "Linked Repetitions" but only "Link to Original Clips", from what I am seeing, it creates the first repetition as a linked clip and then all the rest as independent clips. Am I understanding the behavior correctly?

this seems to agree with the documentation linked above

[Nigel Mackay]

It asks how many repetitions. If the value is 1, it does one paste. It always does at least one paste.

If the value is 3, it does 1 paste, with 2 repetitions. The problem is trying not to label the selections "This is only for the first paste." "This one is for the pastes over and above the first paste." "This one refers to all the pastes." ?

Or, isntead of the label "Repetitions" it could say "How many repetitions over and above the first paste?" With the default value 0, not 1.

[JohnK]

1 hour ago, Nigel Mackay said:

It asks how many repetitions. If the value is 1, it does one paste. It always does at least one paste.

If the value is 3, it does 1 paste, with 2 repetitions. The problem is trying not to label the selections "This is only for the first paste." "This one is for the pastes over and above the first paste." "This one refers to all the pastes." ?

Or, isntead of the label "Repetitions" it could say "How many repetitions over and above the first paste?" With the default value 0, not 1.

 

2 hours ago, scook said:

this seems to agree with the documentation linked above

The documentation and the interface is not clear, and could be read to mean either way. The fact we can see what it does, and then reading the documentation, we read it as the way it has happened.

Regarding the form, if I type in 2 in the repetitions text box, and check the "Link to original clip(s)", I would assume that check-box applies to ALL my repetitions, as it resides on the same form.

Regarding the documentation, it says "Link to Original Clip(s)" check-box creates A linked clip; "A" is singular I would grant you that. It is really not logical software GUI wise to me, to have parts of the form not apply to all (i.e. all repetitions), unless it is explicitly stated such as "Link first to Original Clip(s)." i.e. the first assumption is that whatever is set on the form, applies to the whole process, unless explicitly stated. This label clarification would also avert the need to read the manual (carefully) to understand what is about to happen.

Interesting: I just tried un-checking the "Link to Original Clip(s)" but did check the "Linked Repetitions", and the first pasted WAS linked. So now the first paste IS a repetition and not controlled by the "Link to Original Clip(s)". Another way to look at it, the "Link to Original Clip(s)" is ignored/useless (and thus confusing) once you check the "Linked Repetitions" box. Checking it makes no difference; at least that I saw.

Out of interest, what is the logical reason to have 1 linked clip followed by a number of un-linked clips?

[Nigel Mackay]

5 minutes ago, JohnK said:

Out of interest, what is the logical reason to have 1 linked clip followed by a number of un-linked clips?

You want one to follow the original, and you want the others there so you can play with variations, harmonies?

8 minutes ago, JohnK said:

Interesting: I just tried un-checking the "Link to Original Clip(s)" but did check the "Linked Repetitions", and the first pasted WAS linked. So now the first paste IS a repetition and not controlled by the "Link to Original Clip(s)". Another way to look at it, the "Link to Original Clip(s)" is ignored/useless (and thus confusing) once you check the "Linked Repetitions" box. Checking it makes no difference; at least that I saw.

Not immediately obvious from wording of the dialog. But makes sense. I would get very mixed up using it if the first copy wasn't linked, but the rest were.

[JohnK]

11 hours ago, Nigel Mackay said:

You want one to follow the original, and you want the others there so you can play with variations, harmonies?

Not immediately obvious from wording of the dialog. But makes sense. I would get very mixed up using it if the first copy wasn't linked, but the rest were.

For the first point, I note you made the statement as a question, not as a clear statement of fact. i.e. its not cut-n-dry to you either. Just to be clear my question was trying to understand what the practical reason for wanting such would be, not a re-statement of "that's what happens, if you want that to happen". i.e. why? and you answered with a question.

So, that's what happens, but the more common case, at least that I can think of, is kind-of the opposite. For a simplified example, say I make a 1 bar drum pattern for my chorus start, which I plan to be 16 bars. I would wish to copy that first bar and paste another 15 bars (to make up a 16 bar chorus in total), with the first 14 bars linked to the first bar and the last bar to be a variation (un-linked), as a lead in back into the next verse; so the last bar would not be linked. I think it sounds more common and logical with music, instead of having the first two bars linked and the other 14 bars as variations/un-linked.

As for the second point, saying it would be even worse if done the opposite is not a reason for having it at all; i.e. the lesser of two evils is not a reason for any evil in the first place. I think at the very least, when the "Linked Repetitions" is checked, the "Link to original Clip(s)" should be disabled and checked automatically. As that's what actually happens, and leaving it enabled and unchecked is simply wrong. NB: I haven't looked/thought into/about the logic of what happens when you have more than a single clip being pasted and repeated. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by JohnK
clarification of my question

[Nigel Mackay]

4 hours ago, JohnK said:

 I think at the very least, when the "Linked Repetitions" is checked, the "Link to original Clip(s)" should be disabled and checked automatically. As that's what actually happens, and leaving it enabled and unchecked is simply wrong.

Agree 100% there.

[Nigel Mackay]

Just created 3 linked clips. Unlinked the middle one. Created a new linked group of 1st and 3rd clip. Copied and pasted as linked repetitions.

It maintains the integrity of the links. New middle clips are linked to the original middle clip. "Outer" clips linked to original "outer" clips.