VST Instrument crashes, is it just me ?

[NealClark]

I have been experiencing quite a number of crashes when inserting Instrument tracks. A quick example is I open Cakewalk, from the start screen I create a new empty project, add an instrument track, in this case Dimension Pro (x64), with my Cakewalk by Roland A-500 Pro as the midi input, then select the first instrument in the guitars section, as soon as start to play I get the first few notes and then it crashes with this error message.

 

This has happened with a number of plugins now. BBC SO Discovery VST3,  Kontakt and Dim Pro are just a few that I have had this issue with.

It's only recently that I have experienced this so I am wondering if it part of the latest release that has caused the problem. I have also get the exact same error within Sonar Platinum which was working fine with these instruments until recently.

If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate any feedback.

 

[Promidi]

I am not experiencing this with the latest Cakewalk 2020.5 Build 039 with Windows 10 1909 loading various VSTis (BBC SO Discovery VST3 being one of them)

What have you tried so far.

We are going to need more information about your system

Looks to be a local issue with your PC

What is your OS version. Is your Windows fully patched and your Vdist runtimes up to date (Remember, Windows update does not update Vdist runtimes)

The latest 2019 runtimes is 14.27.29016 - available here:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/help/2977003/the-latest-supported-visual-c-downloads

What audio interface? Do you have the latest drivers for all hardware (Check with manufacturer's website, not Windows update)

What sample rate and bit depth?  What is your Sample buffer size.  What driver mode (ASIO being preferred) are you using?

Have you checked your event logs for any disk errors (like bad blocks)?

[NealClark]

Thanks for the reply.

I have opened a case with Cakewalk support. After examining the dmp file they tell me that the issue when using BBC SO Discovery is caused by the plugin and I should therefore contact Spitfire regarding this.

I then realised I also had the issues with Dimension Pro that I explained in my original post. I have again supplied the Dmp file to support and am yet to hear back from them

Seems slightly confusing to me that the answer from Cakewalk is that it is a plugin issue. I could understand that if it was just one plugin, but it's not it's several of them.

My system is based around an i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, GTX-1060 6GB GPU, SSD Drives. I have a brand new Focusrite Saffire 18i8. I am running Windows 10 Version 2004 all fully patched and up to the latest release as are all the drivers. 

Using 24bit / 48Khz. Buffer size = 256, ASIO.

I am an experienced Cakewalk user. From version 8, 8.5, X1, X2, X3 and SPlat. I wasn't having the issue I described with Dim Pro until recently. The BBC SO was only a recent addition to the system so I don't have any history with that. Dim Pro however has always worked just fine for me, for years and years, so it's odd to suddenly start getting errors with it. It's also not a consistent error. Adding it into an existing project as a new instrument track may or may not cause the error, it's very random in its behaviour. By doing exactly as I described in my original post it happens 100% of the time, the same with the BBC SO VST3. It's odd to say the least and getting in the way of me getting on with some video scoring projects I am working on.

Incidentally I tried it on my old Windows 7, on the same PC, where I also have a SONAR X3e Producer x64 installed. Everything seems to be working fine. I aslo have CbB on that install, and I know CbB isn't supported on Win 7 any more, but it exhibits the same crashes as the Windows 10 install. So it would seem that it is not directly OS related.

Hopefully I can find a solution or work around soon.

I appreciate your help. 

Thanks,

 

[Nigel Mackay]

If there is an issue between plugins and your Windows, then as far as Cakewalk is concerned, the issue is the plugins. Cakewalk can't know that the plugins are struggling with Windows. Cakewalk just knows that the plugins aren't behaving, not why they are not behaving.. If you go back to support, just maybe they can shed a bit of light on what the plugins are doing wrong. Just might help you find out what is wrong with your Windows.

Trouble is, you can only use the plugins inside Cakewalk, so you can't get a plugin-Windows crash dump for more info.

Good luck.

 

[NealClark]

1 minute ago, Nigel Mackay said:

If there is an issue between plugins and your Windows, then as far as Cakewalk is concerned, the issue is the plugins. Cakewalk can't know that the plugins are struggling with Windows. Cakewalk just knows that the plugins aren't behaving, not why they are not behaving.. If you go back to support, just maybe they can shed a bit of light on what the plugins are doing wrong. Just might help you find out what is wrong with your Windows.

Trouble is, you can only use the plugins inside Cakewalk, so you can't get a plugin-Windows crash dump for more info.

Good luck.

 

I do understand that. However Dimension Pro is a Cakewalk product so they should be fully aware of what the plugin is doing. It's all a tad confusing as I said, it was working, but now on the latest CbB release it's a bit like I feel I am taking a chance inserting certain plugins. Crashes aren't consistent with any particular scenario other than the one I mentioned in my original post.

As a further test I have tried the plugins in an alternate DAW on the same PC and they do not crash.

 

[Nigel Mackay]

Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling Cakewalk?

[NealClark]

6 minutes ago, Nigel Mackay said:

Have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling Cakewalk?

I haven't as yet.  As I have SPlat on the same OS install and I know that there are a number of shared components between the versions I don't want to potentially risk breaking that Install. As I said everything was working fine so It could of course be that MS, in their normal way, have changed things and introduced a bug that is now causing issues with my system. Updating to the Windows 10 2004 release seems to have been okay with most other software I use though. That said MS do keep making "improvements" that relate to Audio and Video handing that may be slightly questionable.

For now I guess I will just have to wait and see what support recommend, if anything, and make a mental note to always save projects regularly before adding  any additional Instruments tracks.

Just to give you an idea of how inconsistent these crashes can be ... Yesterday I created a  new Template including Kontakt as the first plugin with 16 Instruments loaded, then added 66 instances of the BBC SO VST3, all with different instruments and articulations. Fifteen Spitfire LABS Instruments. Addictive Drums, Three Addictive keys instances ...... plus various busses with reverb, compressors and FX plugins. Audio tracks with instances of Guitar Rig all ready to use. I managed to get that all done, saved, working, tested and today being used. Without one crash.  Today I try creating a similar thing and it's crashed numerous times.

I originally asked the question just to see if it was my setup .... which it may be, although I have no idea why. Having used Cakewalk products for such a long time I can normally find out where and why things go wrong. I also have years of working with PC's as an IT Technical Consultant. So I pretty much know my way around the technology, OS and related hardware. Just seems way too random in these instances though and has me baffled. I've checked through all the windows logs, ran USB monitors to check it wasn't MIDI over USB related. I have learned over the years how to get the most from Cakewalk and always keep my systems and setup as simple as can be. whilst still have a completely usable and capable setup that meets my requirements.

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions though. I'll struggle on with the random crashes and see how it unfolds.

 

[Nigel Mackay]

Nothing worse than random.

[Promidi]

5 hours ago, NealClark said:

Incidentally I tried it on my old Windows 7, on the same PC, where I also have a SONAR X3e Producer x64 installed. Everything seems to be working fine. I aslo have CbB on that install, and I know CbB isn't supported on Win 7 any more, but it exhibits the same crashes as the Windows 10 install. So it would seem that it is not directly OS related.

 

I think you have to consider a random intermittent hardware fault at this stage (or at least rule it out ).  CbB is likely using your hardware in a way that makes the fault manifest in a way that SONAR X3e Producer x64 does not.

If it really was a Cakewalk issue, then there would be many, many more posts on here reporting the same issue.

As I have said, my PC with CbB (see signature for specs) does not experience the crashes you describe.  I even use the same bit depth/samplerate/buffer size as you do.

Check your Windows event logs for any disk errors (or any hardware errors).  What does CrystalDisk info (or equivalent) say as to the health of your disks. 

It could even be a memory issue.  Maybe reseat your Ram and/or perform a memory test.

Just confirming that you are not overclocking your PC. Also check your are your system temperatures. 

From what you're describing, my instincts are telling me random hardware fault at this stage.

[NealClark]

3 hours ago, Promidi said:

I think you have to consider a random intermittent hardware fault at this stage (or at least rule it out ).  CbB is likely using your hardware in a way that makes the fault manifest in a way that SONAR X3e Producer x64 does not.

If it really was a Cakewalk issue, then there would be many, many more posts on here reporting the same issue.

As I have said, my PC with CbB (see signature for specs) does not experience the crashes you describe.  I even use the same bit depth/samplerate/buffer size as you do.

Check your Windows event logs for any disk errors (or any hardware errors).  What does CrystalDisk info (or equivalent) say as to the health of your disks. 

It could even be a memory issue.  Maybe reseat your Ram and/or perform a memory test.

Just confirming that you are not overclocking your PC. Also check your are your system temperatures. 

From what you're describing, my instincts are telling me random hardware fault at this stage.

I have already explored most of the things you've suggested. If it was in anyway hardware related then I would expect to see similar issues with other DAW Host Software. Ableton, even though I hate it, works as expected and without encountering any of the problems. I also use Davinci Resolve ( by Blackmagic Design) for video editing, colour grading and VFX on the same PC and that is really hardware intensive, so if anything I would expect that to show up any hardware problems. The Fairlight module in Resolve is a very basic DAW for mixing and processing audio for video, it can also host VST FX and Instruments and the same plugins work just fine there,

It has me baffled. I guess it's something I will have to live with and work around.

Once again thanks for your input and suggestions.

 

 

[Robert Bone]

Howdy - a common cause of one or more plugins failing in a VST Host, such as Cakewalk, is that one or more of the Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Redistributable libraries are missing.  If this is the issue, it is fortunately pretty easy to confirm, and to correct.

I built a post, a while back, with the direct links, in order, of each of those runtime libraries, and you can compare the list in that post, against which ones show up as installed on your system.  To see which ones are installed on your system, open up Control Panel, and click on the link that says Uninstall a Program.  That will bring up the list of installed programs on your computer, and just scroll down until you start seeing a bunch of those runtime libraries in that list.  Then, compare those against the list in the post I will post the link to, below.  Install any of those runtime libraries that are missing, and when you are done, see if that corrects your issues with plugins causing crashes.

Here is the link to the post I built (Please note: you need to install the x86 and x64 runtimes):

Post with links for all available Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Redistributables

Bob Bone

Edited July 10, 2020 by Robert Bone
Added clarity

[NealClark]

15 hours ago, Robert Bone said:

Howdy - a common cause of one or more plugins failing in a VST Host, such as Cakewalk, is that one or more of the Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Redistributable libraries are missing.  If this is the issue, it is fortunately pretty easy to confirm, and to correct.

I built a post, a while back, with the direct links, in order, of each of those runtime libraries, and you can compare the list in that post, against which ones show up as installed on your system.  To see which ones are installed on your system, open up Control Panel, and click on the link that says Uninstall a Program.  That will bring up the list of installed programs on your computer, and just scroll down until you start seeing a bunch of those runtime libraries in that list.  Then, compare those against the list in the post I will post the link to, below.  Install any of those runtime libraries that are missing, and when you are done, see if that corrects your issues with plugins causing crashes.

Here is the link to the post I built (Please note: you need to install the x86 and x64 runtimes):

Post with links for all available Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Redistributables

Bob Bone

Thanks for the Info, much appreciate the help, I will check those out.

 

[Robert Bone]

4 hours ago, NealClark said:

Thanks for the Info, much appreciate the help, I will check those out.

 

Sure - those runtime libraries are needed, because applications that are written in Visual C++ call routines that are release-specific for the runtime libraries those applications were calling, when they were compiled.  Then, when they run, they require that same version of runtime library to be present, and crash, with an Address Exception, if that specific runtime library is not installed on the computer. 

That is why there are so many of those - they can all be installed right alongside each other, and in that post I put the link to in my earlier reply, I list the runtime library links in oldest to newest order, so you can just march down the list to install any that aren't already installed on your PC.

Please post back, after you install any missing ones, and try loading and using those synths that were failing before. 

Bob Bone

[NealClark]

18 minutes ago, Robert Bone said:

Sure - those runtime libraries are needed, because applications that are written in Visual C++ call routines that are release-specific for the runtime libraries those applications were calling, when they were compiled.  Then, when they run, they require that same version of runtime library to be present, and crash, with an Address Exception, if that specific runtime library is not installed on the computer. 

That is why there are so many of those - they can all be installed right alongside each other, and in that post I put the link to in my earlier reply, I list the runtime library links in oldest to newest order, so you can just march down the list to install any that aren't already installed on your PC.

Please post back, after you install any missing ones, and try loading and using those synths that were failing before. 

Bob Bone

I understand all about the C++ run time libraries as I worked as a software developer for more years than I care to remember. I will take a look though just to make sure everything is as it should be. The odd thing is that if the libraries weren't correct then these errors would happen all the time. But they don't. As I mentioned previosly it's all a bit random at times.

[Robert Bone]

1 hour ago, NealClark said:

I understand all about the C++ run time libraries as I worked as a software developer for more years than I care to remember. I will take a look though just to make sure everything is as it should be. The odd thing is that if the libraries weren't correct then these errors would happen all the time. But they don't. As I mentioned previosly it's all a bit random at times.

Kudos for your development work - I put in 38 years in IT, in multiple roles.

Anyways, for an error related to a missing runtime library to manifest, a specific call to a routine from that missing library would have to be made, and that could depend on particular logic paths being processed.  These runtime libraries may not be invoved with what is going on, with your crashes, but they are a common reason for crashes in plugins that are not widely reported as crashing.

The nice thing is that by comparing the libraries installed, with the list in the post I provided earlier, installing any missing ones, and testing out the loading and use of the plugins that had been failing, you can pretty easily find out if that fixed the issues, or not, but in any case, it is good to have those runtime libraries installed.  And, it is not a difficult thing to go through the steps to make sure all the runtime libraries are installed.

Bob Bone

[Jerm]

Hi there. 

Was this issue ever solved? I just transferred all of my projects over to CbB but I'm getting the same error as OP using dimension pro during playback. It seems to happen relatively randomly at some point during the playback but sometimes the playback will get all the way through with no crash. 

I use dimpro presets for a ton of tracks, so I should also mention that I'm getting a message saying that some of the dimension pro plugin tracks can't be located when I boot up a file, so those tracks play nothing. I can then go into dimpro and manually set it to the presets I had them on before so I'm not sure why it isn't locating some of the presets I was using while locating the others just fine. 

I looked at all those redistributables and it seems like I already have all of them. 

Inspiron 15 7000 laptop 

i5-7300HQ cpu @ 2.5GHz 

16GB RAM 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Jerm
More info

[NealClark]

On 3/14/2021 at 1:59 AM, Jerm said:

Hi there. 

Was this issue ever solved? I just transferred all of my projects over to CbB but I'm getting the same error as OP using dimension pro during playback. It seems to happen relatively randomly at some point during the playback but sometimes the playback will get all the way through with no crash. 

I use dimpro presets for a ton of tracks, so I should also mention that I'm getting a message saying that some of the dimension pro plugin tracks can't be located when I boot up a file, so those tracks play nothing. I can then go into dimpro and manually set it to the presets I had them on before so I'm not sure why it isn't locating some of the presets I was using while locating the others just fine. 

I looked at all those redistributables and it seems like I already have all of them. 

Inspiron 15 7000 laptop 

i5-7300HQ cpu @ 2.5GHz 

16GB RAM 

Sadly not. I still get random crashes with a number of VST's. BBC SO Discover VST3 fails regularly, occasional Dimenson Pro crashes ...... etc etc.

It's very odd that sometimes I can open a project and get the crash immediately. I then re-open the same project and it works fine. Not sure why it happens or how to get around it. I just make sure I do regular saves to ensure I work around the problems.

[scook]

DP has a few programs that are known to crash.

Without the program names, it is hard to say if they are involved here.

WRT to CbB crashes in general see