Why is Cakewalk not holding the output settings I assigned?

[chris.r]

So I've been working with two class compliant devices connected to Cakewalk for the last couple days, according to this topic:

To make things more easy I created a template where I have the master bus routed to one device, the ART in particular, and then created a send to an additional bus that I routed to the Shure output. Except the issues mentioned in the topic above, everything was working as expected since day one. Well, I have to admit, somedays the WDM driver is making trouble for example is loading with an arbitrary latency as high as 4096 samples where I can do nothing but restart windows to bring it back to around 600 samples where it behaves quite acceptable. Also the recorded tracks are usually with added different latency, depending on day, sometimes it's barely noticeable and sometimes it's clearly hundreds of milliseconds. But that's all manageable later while editing. The problem with output changes arose today.

Until now there was no problems when working with the two devices simultaneously, I was plugging in the USB mic, done the records, switch off pc and unplug the mic to make the edits later with just the ART interface left connected. Today when I opened project that I saved yesterday, Cakewalk told me that Master bus is assigned to a silent hardware output. While checking I discovered that the additional bus I created and routed to Shure is now assigned to ART, and Master bus is going to -none-. Normally Master bus would go to ART as it did until now, and the additional Shure bus would go silent if I unplugged the mic. It seems the two outputs literally swapped in their places. Cakewalk even remembers the friendly names I had given, it just swapped both outputs, nothing else. I also checked and exactly the same happens in every project I created since last week and in the template as well.

Anybody has an idea what is going on here?

[John Vere]

WDM mode is long forgotten and people use WASAPI shared for this, give that a try. But be warned, Cakewalk is a fussy DAW and is only really smooth sailing when using ASIO. 

Also for overdubbing your timing offset will be out a bit.  In this screen shot I'm using a loop back test to demonstrate how WDM mode with a Sound Blaster audio card actually records early on the time line. The Berhringer records late with USB class compliant driver

 

[chris.r]

4 minutes ago, John Vere said:

WDM mode is long forgotten and people use WASAPI shared for this, give that a try. But be warned, Cakewalk is a fussy DAW and is only really smooth sailing when using ASIO. 

Sorry I confused driver names. I am using WASAPI Exclusive because in shared mode I can't select both devices, selecting one disables the other. Somehow I thought that WASAPI are still WDM with the new name in Windows 10.

6 minutes ago, John Vere said:

Also for overdubbing your timing offset will be out a bit.  In this screen shot I'm using a loop back test to demonstrate how WDM mode with a Sound Blaster audio card actually records early on the time line. The Berhringer records late with USB class compliant driver

My takes are late but what's funny every day with different amount. Even though there's driver reported latency in preferences, Cakewalk is not compensating for the latency, or not making it correctly.

[John Vere]

10 minutes ago, chris.r said:

My takes are late but what's funny every day with different amount. Even though there's driver reported latency in preferences, Cakewalk is not compensating for the latency, or not making it correctly.

Exactly- This is why you need to use ASIO mode if any serious overdubbing is to happen. ASIO mode is the only mode that can accurately report the latency to the DAW. It is not the DAW's fault. it can only use what is reported by the driver. 

All other modes need to be adjusted. I did a whole bunch of test along with other group members here a few years ago. I tested all sorts of modes and devices I had on hand. Everyone reported the same findings. Even the cheapest ASIO audio interface was bang on ( or very close) using ASIO mode. All other modes including asio4all did not stay in sync using a loopback test. And some like you say even wander around.

If your serious about music being in time you will need a ASIO audio interface. 

Other modes are fine for making a live recording and editing, mixing a project. But to overdub new tracks it's ASIO or nothing. 

Edited June 22, 2020 by John Vere

[chris.r]

All fine, I agree but, like I said, that's not a problem for me for the time. The other person is manually aligning my tracks later. The problem that frightens me is, why did the two outputs exchange all of a sudden? Yesterday they was assigned correctly to the corresponding busses, today they are literally swapped. Where I had ART outs assigned is Shure now, and Shure is routed to where the ART was.

Edited June 22, 2020 by chris.r

[John Vere]

As I said, Cakewalk is optimized for and expects to see an ASIO driver. If you choose to use any other mode you will have these issues. It's the price you pay for not having a solid system. USB class compliant devices are fine in a pinch but not what you build a smooth running studio set up on. 

[Base 57]

On 6/22/2020 at 10:40 AM, chris.r said:

Until now there was no problems when working with the two devices simultaneously, I was plugging in the USB mic, done the records, switch off pc and unplug the mic to make the edits later with just the ART interface left connected.

This is at least one of your problems.  Any audio or midi devices you use in a project need to be connected and turned on when you start Cakewalk. Be sure to use the same port every time. 

[chris.r]

1 hour ago, Base 57 said:

This is at least one of your problems.  Any audio or midi devices you use in a project need to be connected and turned on when you start Cakewalk. Be sure to use the same port every time. 

Thanks. When I connect the Shure usb mic, both hardware outputs are going back to their original buses like I have set them initially - ART on the master bus and Shure on the extra bus I've created for it. When I'm working with only ART connected to my pc, I'm expecting that ART stays on master bus, and the extra Shure bus will be set to none. In fact, for about a week it was probably so because I got the "One of your buses is routed to a silent hardware output..." pop-up window only after about a week of connecting/disconnecting Shure. And then when I checked it was the Master bus going to -none- and 'Shure' bus suddenly was routed to the ART outputs - so basically vice versa.

Edited June 26, 2020 by chris.r