Cakewalk Sound Center doesn't respond to RPN + Wheel

[Dave G]

I wish to create bend/portamento on adjacent notes in Cakewalk Sound Center.

I set an RPN event (seems # doesn't matter) in the beginning of the track. Then I draw a pitch bend wheel at the end of the first note going from 0 down to the pitch of the second note. Just then, when I play the track...I lose audio. What the...?

When I change the Sound Center instrument, it plays fine on the CSC synth window keyboard. But when I play the track again, no audio. How nutty, this is frustrating.

Cakewalk Sound Center is a signficant part of my instrument library. I'd love to be able to get pitch bend to work there. Any suggestions to the above issue?

Thanks in advance.

[scook]

26 minutes ago, Dave G said:

I set an RPN event (seems # doesn't matter) in the beginning of the track. Then I draw a pitch bend wheel at the end of the first note going from 0 down to the pitch of the second note. Just then, when I play the track...I lose audio. What the...?

Not supported by any Cakewalk sfz engine synth including the CSC. These events shut down the synth engine requiring a restart of the project.

Try using wheel events either as MIDI automation in the Track view or CC data in the PRV. Set the wheel type in either method using the MIDI envelop dialog.

[Dave G]

17 hours ago, scook said:

Not supported by any Cakewalk sfz engine synth including the CSC. These events shut down the synth engine requiring a restart of the project.

Try using wheel events either as MIDI automation in the Track view or CC data in the PRV. Set the wheel type in either method using the MIDI envelop dialog.

Thank you for the response.

Would you please elaborate on the second paragraph for me? Wheel events are not available nor documented for the track view, only Volume and Pan. This is also indicated by the numeric meter there which seems to just go from 0 upwards. (I just searched YouTube for literally an hour not finding an instruction for this.)

Also, what you suggested about inserting wheel events via "CC data in the Piano Roll View". Piano Roll View, there's a Controller Pane beneath that, where I normally draw wheel events. How would a CC event create that, and where?

Thanks again. ?

[scook]

16 minutes ago, Dave G said:

This is also indicated by the numeric meter there which seems to just go from 0 upwards. (I just searched YouTube for literally an hour not finding an instruction for this.)

Notice in the animation, MIDI automation for wheel events shows a 0 in the middle for the automation lane. MIDI automation works just like any other automation in the Track view. MIDI automation is only available on MIDI tracks so, if using an instrument track, it must (temporarily) be split into its constituent audio and MIDI tracks to gain access to the MIDI envelop dialog.

 

16 minutes ago, Dave G said:

Also, what you suggested about inserting wheel events via "CC data in the Piano Roll View". Piano Roll View, there's a Controller Pane beneath that, where I normally draw wheel events. How would a CC event create that, and where?

It does not create CC for Wheel. It is the area where the Wheel data along with CC data are displayed in the PRV. I could have written that a little better.

[Dave G]

In reference to drawing in the PRV, I noticed I had to hide the Controller Pane first. This gave me access to the Controller drop-down just above the vertical keyboard.  (To me, however, the Controllers in the PRV method work better as a visual than as an editor.)

I split the Instrument track as you instructed. Then I attempted to draw the pitch bend on the new MIDI track. After I'd done that, I lost audio on playback again. This time, however, was because I decided to delete the instrument track, leaving the MIDI+Automation tracks on their own. (There was no audio left to play?)

I created a new Instrument track again (Cakewalk Sound Center -> Les Paul Guitar Solo), split it, drew the wheel bend on the MIDI track's Automation lane. It played just fine, however, node editing in that small space feels extremely tight and cumbersome.

See screenshot below, as I believe this represents the "proper" method.

I do believe I've learned a few things here. I guess I'm just frustrated that I'm finding this so difficult. I would assume that once this is done, I'm to leave the original Instrument tracks there? Is there any way to create this controller without having to split all tracks I do this on?

(Also, when I tried creating an Automation Lane for RPN, I couldn't figure out how to enter a custom value. And it doesn't appear in the Event list.)

Edited May 2, 2020 by Dave G

[scook]

Here is how I add Wheel to the Controller Pane in the PRV

For now Instrument tracks do not provide access to MIDI automation so there is no point in using instrument tracks if you know you want to draw MIDI automation in the track view.

When Cakewalk sfz synths go silent is it often due to try to play unsupported data. This may be cleaned up in the Event List view or by enabling "Do not intercept NRPNs" in Plug-in Properties from the plug-in header. When running 32bit plug-ins in CbB using BitBridge the track header is in a separate window. To gain access to the window hold the ALT key when adding the synth to a project or opening its UI. The header usually opens behind the plug-in.

[Dave G]

I wish to pick up on this thread from last year, if I may. I haven't experimented with this technique as of late, nor have I resolved it.

Thank you, Scook, for the valuable automation techniques above. I know how to create RPN + wheel/pitch bend data in the Controller Pane of a TTS-1 track. But this very same technique crashes my Cakewalk Sound Center track.

I created a working automation lane for the Wheel. But the lane created for the RPN failed to work. On varied attempts to add an RPN automation lane, it behaved in different ways: 1) as a velocity event, 2) both nodes in the envelope were at different heights even with same values, 3) crashed the audio engine like before. It baffled me that this RPN automation lane would produce different results on various tries.

How does one utilize RPN to widen the pitch bend range in Sound Center? Or can it just not be done?

In the attached image, I'm attempting to bend the pitch of the first note an entire octave (to match the key of the second note, which comes in later) to confirm this to work. But that RPN simply isn't cooperating.

I'm hoping that surely there is a way to create large pitch bends for a Sound Center instrument. Any clarity is appreciated. Thank you!

[scook]

11 minutes ago, Dave G said:

How does one utilize RPN to widen the pitch bend range in Sound Center?

You don't

Cakewalk Sound Center is a Dimension Pro and Rapture program player.

Both of these synths have pitch bend adjustment as part of their synth engines and the setting is made in their UIs.

CSC plays the programs as is with limited adjustment capability provided in the UI.

[Dave G]

14 minutes ago, scook said:

You don't

Cakewalk Sound Center is a Dimension Pro and Rapture program player.

Both of these synths have pitch bend adjustment as part of their synth engines and the setting is made in their UIs.

Darn...that's news to me. All this time, I thought Cakewalk Sound Center was an instrument library synth in itself. ?

So, to clarify, when you say "both of these synths", you mean Dimension Pro and Rapture?

I do remember Rapture Sessions being one of Sonar's add-ons in the Command Center. If I'm understanding correctly, I could use the Rapture Sessions synth and do it from there, built into the synth rather than have to program it myself?

 

EDIT: 

I've been researching the relation between Cakewalk Sound Center and  Rapture Sessions.

I'm going to go ahead and install Rapture Sessions and see where I can go from there in terms of pitch bends and other effects.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Dave G

[scook]

17 minutes ago, Dave G said:

So, to clarify, when you say "both of these synths", you mean Dimension Pro and Rapture?

yes

 

Rapture Session is the 64bit replacement for Cakewalk Sound Center.

It plays Cakewalk Sound Center, Dimension Pro, Rapture and Rapture Pro programs.

It includes a selection of Rapture Pro programs.

Rapture Pro replaced Dimension Pro and Rapture.

I have Rapture Pro installed.

Not sure what Rapture Session has in the way of a UI.

The big advantage over Cakewalk Sound Center is Rapture Session is 64bit.

 

Keep in mind all of these are sfz engine synths and they all handle MIDI data the same way.

The differences are the features built around the sfz player.

 

[Dave G]

16 minutes ago, scook said:

yes

 

Rapture Session is the 64bit replacement for Cakewalk Sound Center.

It plays Cakewalk Sound Center, Dimension Pro, Rapture and Rapture Pro programs.

It includes a selection of Rapture Pro programs.

Rapture Pro replaced Dimension Pro and Rapture.

 

Again, I had no idea and was completely unaware of this structure all this time. I should've used Session instead of CSC all this time.

I think I understand better now. I've installed Sessions and digging around through it now. Thanks for the clarification!

[scook]

For future reference, should anyone else be reading this thread.

Install Rapture Pro/Session after installing Cakewalk Sound Center, Dimension Pro and Rapture.

Rapture Pro/Session look for the other synths and if they are installed, their programs are copied into the Rapture Pro/Session program folder.

[Dave G]

1 hour ago, scook said:

For future reference, should anyone else be reading this thread.

Install Rapture Pro/Session after installing Cakewalk Sound Center, Dimension Pro and Rapture.

Rapture Pro/Session look for the other synths and if they are installed, their programs are copied into the Rapture Pro/Session program folder.

Thanks for the suggestion!

That being said...

What if you install Rapture Sessions/Pro without Sound Center already installed? Will it work independently, and could I still install my Digital Sound Factory expansion packs/add-ons into the Rapture folder? 

[scook]

Rapture Pro/Session may be installed without any of the legacy synths installed but making legacy content available to Rapture Pro/Session is not that straight forward (although it is possible).

 

I don't know if the DSF CSC expansion packs will install without CSC being present.

Some 3rd party installers were updated after Rapture Pro/Session to look for the new synths.

 

After looking at the registry it appears only Dimension Pro and Rapture programs get copied when Rapture Pro/Session are installed

If CSC is installed rather than copy its programs two registry entries are made in

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Rapture Pro\2.0

• CSC Multisamples Path - the default value is "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Vstplugins\Cakewalk Sound Center"
• CSC Programs Path - the default value is "C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Sound Center\Programs"

Again I don't have Rapture Session installed but I am pretty sure they share the same registry entries.

If the DSF installers are not Rapture Pro/Session aware and install without CSC being present, I believe these two registry entries will need to be added for Rapture Pro/Session to find the samples and programs.

[Dave G]

23 minutes ago, scook said:

Rapture Pro/Session may be installed without any of the legacy synths installed but making legacy content available to Rapture Pro/Session is not that straight forward (although it is possible).

I don't know if the CSC DSF expansion packs will install without CSC being installed.

After looking at the registry it appears only Dimension Pro and Rapture programs get copied with Rapture Pro/Session are installed

If CSC is installed rather than copy its programs two registry entries are made in

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software\Rapture Pro\2.0

• CSC Multisamples Path - the default value is "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\Vstplugins\Cakewalk Sound Center"
• CSC Programs Path - the default value is "C:\ProgramData\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Sound Center\Programs"

If the DSF installers are not Rapture Pro/Session aware and install without CSC being present, these two registry entries will need to be added for Rapture Pro/Session to find the samples and programs.

Good to know.

After evaluating the Rapture Pro demo, I'm quite pleased.

Also, I was able to create a two-octave pitch bend with a Pro instrument. I simply changed the bend range in the bottom of the Pro Elements window(s) and it worked. Better than dumping a bunch of RPN CC's all over the Controller pane.

I do notice that Rapture crashed a few times via fatal error c0000005, and I'm already running as Administrator. I'll have to look for that to happen again.

Besides that, I've been enjoying Cakewalk Sound Center all this time, but I sure wish I'd purchased Rapture Pro long ago.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Dave G

[scook]

Yeah, I have seen a few here regret not purchasing Rapture Pro.

At least Rapture Session is 64bit so at least you have a way to run CSC programs without BitBridge.