Finding conversion from usb midi to 5pin midi

[Keni]

What a pain.

Yes, usb midi is a handy way to quick connect a gadget to a pc, but it’s near impossible to connect a usb midi device to a standard midi device without a pc involved.

 

Has anyone found a solution for this?

[RobertWS]

Have you tried an adapter like this one? 

  https://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-UNO/dp/B00007JRBM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=M-Audio+Midisport+Uno&qid=1586618561&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-1

 

Note: I also had a cheap one but it didn't handle pitch bends at all so it went into the trash. 

[msmcleod]

23 minutes ago, RobertWS said:

....

Note: I also had a cheap one but it didn't handle pitch bends at all so it went into the trash. 

Those USB to MIDI "cables" are all based around an IC with a ridiculously small internal buffer size, and whats more the driver accepts MIDI data at full USB speed rather than blocking it to how fast it can send it out. So yeah, pitch bend is dodgy... sysex is a no-go.

Personally I'd stay away from any MIDI interface that uses the generic Windows MIDI drivers - just in case they're using the same internal IC.

The ones I know work with everything are:

• M-Audio MidiSport series
• Miditech MIDIface 8x8
• Any MIDI interface that is part of an audio interface that doesn't use generic drivers (e.g. Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, 18i20 etc)

[Keni]

1 hour ago, RobertWS said:

Have you tried an adapter like this one? 

  https://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-UNO/dp/B00007JRBM/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=M-Audio+Midisport+Uno&qid=1586618561&s=musical-instruments&sr=1-1

 

Note: I also had a cheap one but it didn't handle pitch bends at all so it went into the trash. 

Thanks Robert.

 

I was just looking at the Roland um1 prior to posting which appears the same. I wold also need a usb a female to usb b male adapter. Which is where I got concerned as typically, the type b goes out of a gadget, but the type a is only on a pc. I don’t know enough of how usb midi is actually handled.

 

These cables were originally created as a cheap way to connect an external standard midi device to a pc. Yes?

[Keni]

39 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Those USB to MIDI "cables" are all based around an IC with a ridiculously small internal buffer size, and whats more the driver accepts MIDI data at full USB speed rather than blocking it to how fast it can send it out. So yeah, pitch bend is dodgy... sysex is a no-go.

Personally I'd stay away from any MIDI interface that uses the generic Windows MIDI drivers - just in case they're using the same internal IC.

The ones I know work with everything are:

• M-Audio MidiSport series
• Miditech MIDIface 8x8
• Any MIDI interface that is part of an audio interface that doesn't use generic drivers (e.g. Focusrite Scarlett 6i6, 18i20 etc)

Thanks Mark...

 

My problem specifically relates to connecting 2 midi devices without a pc.

 

I'm trying to connect a usb midi output from one keyboard into an older keyboard with standard midi 5 pin din

 

Any thoughts?

[Gswitz]

No. I can think of a way to do this without power. Midi supplies a tiny power drip.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIDIExpand--keith-mcmillen-instruments-midi-expander?mrkgadid=3301332467&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=studio&recording=&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700046938536191&lid=92700046938536191&ds_s_kwgid=58700005285190824&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&dsproductgroupid=467439732702&product_id=MIDIExpand&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid={product_store_id}&device=m&network=g&matchtype=&locationid={loc_phyiscal_ms}&creative=280136033989&targetid=aud-297527862610%3Apla-467439732702&campaignid=1465808290&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjw1cX0BRBmEiwAy9tKHlX_AD_9BylvLFetZ3twJM-nXGdvpGcS0asuWlONQYxrLfokt1FP7xoCcNIQAvD_BwE

Idk if this is any good.

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Gswitz

[craigb]

1 hour ago, Gswitz said:

No. I can think of a way to do this without power. Midi supplies a tiny power drip.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MIDIExpand--keith-mcmillen-instruments-midi-expander?mrkgadid=3301332467&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=studio&recording=&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700046938536191&lid=92700046938536191&ds_s_kwgid=58700005285190824&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&dsproductgroupid=467439732702&product_id=MIDIExpand&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid={product_store_id}&device=m&network=g&matchtype=&locationid={loc_phyiscal_ms}&creative=280136033989&targetid=aud-297527862610%3Apla-467439732702&campaignid=1465808290&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=CjwKCAjw1cX0BRBmEiwAy9tKHlX_AD_9BylvLFetZ3twJM-nXGdvpGcS0asuWlONQYxrLfokt1FP7xoCcNIQAvD_BwE

Idk if this is any good.

 

That's definitely a contender for Longest Link Included In A Post though! ?

[msmcleod]

1 hour ago, Keni said:

Thanks Mark...

 

My problem specifically relates to connecting 2 midi devices without a pc.

 

I'm trying to connect a usb midi output from one keyboard into an older keyboard with standard midi 5 pin din

 

Any thoughts?

Something like this should do it:

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Miditech-USB-MIDI-HOST/art-SYN0006178-000?campaign=GShopping/UK&ProgramUUID=HADAqJarPzAAAAFlea9yjI.G&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt46bjPzg6AIVgevtCh2z4Q2wEAQYAyABEgI9LfD_BwE

 

[Keni]

34 minutes ago, craigb said:

That's definitely a contender for Longest Link Included In A Post though! ?

Ha!

 

That's what I thought too. I ordered one and had it delivered to my friend, but ran into issues. After a lot of searching I finally found a note on the McMillen website that said the box will not allow midi through from xpender to 5pin.

 

My friend is totally non-tech. It appears this box uses usb power, but comes with a power supply that can be used for free standing. Between my friend’s lack of understanding, no internet. No texting, I couldn’t manage to tell him what to do to try it anyway. Do you know that it will work for my needs regardless of these issues? If so I will return to attempting blind instructions.... happily!

 

 Thanks...

[Keni]

40 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Something like this should do it:

https://www.dv247.com/en_GB/GBP/Miditech-USB-MIDI-HOST/art-SYN0006178-000?campaign=GShopping/UK&ProgramUUID=HADAqJarPzAAAAFlea9yjI.G&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt46bjPzg6AIVgevtCh2z4Q2wEAQYAyABEgI9LfD_BwE

 

Thanks Mark!

 

That's perfect. A blind man should be able to connect it.

 

Unless I find the McMillen midi expander can do it, I will most definitely order this!

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Keni

[Keni]

1 minute ago, Keni said:

Thanks Mark!

 

That's perfect. A blind  man should be able to connect it.

 

Unless I find the McMillen midi expander can do it, I will  definitely order this!

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by Keni
Accidental

[Gswitz]

 

No?

[Keni]

37 minutes ago, Gswitz said:

 

No?

Thanks Gswitz...

 

That’s the gadget and setup for what they designed. Now substitute an ordinary midi keyboard usb midi out into the expander connection and an older midi synth connected via 5pin. Will that work?

 

I'm going to be trying again tonight remotely. I'm in California and he's in Florida with no internet or texting...

 

[Gswitz]

I would expect it to work. How can the device tell the difference? It takes in the midi and relays it. Idk though. No proof like trying.

[Keni]

58 minutes ago, Gswitz said:

I would expect it to work. How can the device tell the difference? It takes in the midi and relays it. Idk though. No proof like trying.

Exactly my thought and why I bought it. My problem was that I was frustrated trying to set it up blind with the person on site as un-tech as can be and no internet or texting for visual options.

 

I finally found the manufacturer's web page for it. A bit tedious itself in the way they list it (don’t).

When I did I found one remark that seemed wrench-like where they state the midi expander can not act as a midi thru... so I began thinking it not somehow.

 

I will by attempting this again tonight and I'll post the results.

 

 Thanks everyone.

[Keni]

Last update.

 Last update.

OK it didn’t work.  Midi transmit/receive settings matched. Usbmidi out to expander. midi expander 5 pin din out to slave keyboard midi in.

 

Nothing... Looking for a different solution. My friend is unable to cope with this tech.

 

 Thanks everyone...

 

[Gswitz]

I'm sorry Keni. BTW, if you got it at Sweetwater you might try their tech support.

[Keni]

5 hours ago, Gswitz said:

I'm sorry Keni. BTW, if you got it at Sweetwater you might try their tech support.

Thanks again Gswitz...

 

Yes, I got it from sweetwater. Sadly I am having no luck connecting with anyone there. Unusual for them but cv19 has changed things everywhere.

My regular salesman is not answering e/voicemail and the "anyone" connection ends with a message box full warning. I’m guessing this will get resolved eventually.

 

[Toddskins]

I'm surprised that in that Expander video tutorial, the finale was omitted.  I mean... the viewer wants to see the demonstrator play some keys on the tiny keyboard and then hear the sounds from that Arturia MiniBrute.

And then, to hear some crazy cool riffs and then fade out. 

[Keni]

27 minutes ago, Toddskins said:

I'm surprised that in that Expander video tutorial, the finale was omitted.  I mean... the viewer wants to see the demonstrator play some keys on the tiny keyboard and then hear the sounds from that Arturia MiniBrute.

And then, to hear some crazy cool riffs and then fade out. 

I’m frustrated by all of this...

Though I love my friend (brother by another mother), he's incredibly non-tech. So this may work, but I was unable to make it happen cross-country remote.

 

This has been an attempt to adjust to recent instrument failure. His cp33's keyboard just died for it's second time. Another repair ridiculous so he bought a different keyboard far inferior, but he loves the feel... There are already so many complications and issues due to this. So this will have to follow a different course.

 

It's very sad how this modern midi method has so badly created these interconnectivity issues where none existed before.