Recording Violin

[Victoria Johnson]

I have a piezo pickup on my violin; it sounds great live. The problem is when I try to record it. I'm not making a CD or anything close but recording originals, band tunes etc. My violin sounds .. well, terrible. Is there a way to tweak that in Cakewalk so it is so ugly sounding - nasally, shrill at times, very "electric". I was surprised since it sounds so natural live (yes, I know it isn't quite natural .. but close). I'm not by any means a recording aficionado so have limited skills. I can use prochannel tweeks on the other instruments (guitar, cello, irish drum.. from BIAB) and they sound amazing.

[Colin Nicholls]

When you want acoustic instruments to sound "acoustic", nothing beats a microphone in an acoustic space. The difference between using my piezo equiped nylon string guitar wired vs recorded via a mic was so different, I stopped trying, and used mics.

Of course, if you want that piezo sound (it is useful for some use-cases) then you're good.

[lapasoa]

Good mic and, very important, a good audio interface.

Try recording both ways. One track for acoustic and one track for electric and put tracks in stereo. One on left and one on right

[rsinger]

The brittle sound of piezos is an issue. You should be able to EQ it. There have been a few threads on people using IRs of acoustic guitars; you might find some IRs for violins.

[Victoria Johnson]

Thanks all . The reason I was recording with the pickup and not the mic I have is ambient noise;computer, furnace, lawn mowers, dogs... noisy neighborhood.  Even my hammered dulcimer uses a piezo pickup which actually sounds very natural. I'll search around for some EQ suggestions.

[Chaps]

1 hour ago, Victoria Johnson said:

Thanks all . The reason I was recording with the pickup and not the mic I have is ambient noise;computer, furnace, lawn mowers, dogs... noisy neighborhood.  Even my hammered dulcimer uses a piezo pickup which actually sounds very natural. I'll search around for some EQ suggestions.

Consider this. When you hear your piezo pickup live, are you hearing it amplified through a PA or amplifier? If so, that is what you are hearing and not the direct output from the pickup. You can try using a clean amp setting from TH3, or other amp modeler, to see if that gives you more of the sound you are looking for. You can tweak the heck out of those, and combined with adjusting the EQ you might find something you can live with.

[Alan Tubbs]

I’ve gotten gorgeous sound out of an octava pencil mic from above the shoulder.  An ok room, although I do use an RND portico II channel.  If miking  isn’t possible, yea, use a guitar amp sim (clean) and irs to give it body.

[mark skinner]

Victoria , are you using headphones while recording ? They will give you a better idea of what your pickup sounds like without hearing all the sound directly from the instrument , It's hard with a violin because your ears are only inches from it. Any acoustic instrument will also act like a giant microphone picking up the signal from your speakers and mudding everything up. I have a pickup in my cello and can make it sound pretty good with eq , but a mic is the way to go. I just have to choose the right time to record .     mark

[jerrydf]

I agree with the preference to go truly acoustic.  However if you keep on the piezzo track, you may find some impulse responses (IRs) which may help.  I don't know of any for violins, but I used some with guitars.  The IRs are designed to be used wth a piezzo pick up and give quite a good natural acoustic feel.  I've done the same with mandolins (in fact a mandolin IR may actually work for a violin).

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by jerrydf

[Victoria Johnson]

Chappel .. that TH3 worked great .. thanks. If I ever record for real I will do that in a studio. I don't have a choice as to when I practice/record.... have to do it when husband is working!

[Chaps]

13 minutes ago, Victoria Johnson said:

Chappel .. that TH3 worked great .. thanks. If I ever record for real I will do that in a studio. I don't have a choice as to when I practice/record.... have to do it when husband is working!

I thought it might. Glad to hear it worked out. Guitar amp sims can be very useful for more than just guitars. Keep experimenting. Who knows, your go-to amp might be a bass amp.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Chappel

[Bridget Murphy]

On 4/2/2020 at 12:25 AM, Victoria Johnson said:

I have a piezo pickup on my violin; it sounds great live. The problem is when I try to record it. I'm not making a CD or anything close but recording originals, band tunes etc. My violin sounds .. well, terrible. Is there a way to tweak that in Cakewalk so it is so ugly sounding - nasally, shrill at times, very "electric". I was surprised since it sounds so natural live (yes, I know it isn't quite natural .. but close). I'm not by any means a recording aficionado so have limited skills. I can use prochannel tweeks on the other instruments (guitar, cello, irish drum.. from BIAB) and they sound amazing.

Good luck on your project.

[AB9]

If you do go the microphone route - consider a good ribbon mic like a Samar VL37 or AEA 84 or 44.

Edited January 19, 2024 by Alan Bachman

[John Vere]

This is an old thread but what the OP was possibly experiencing is when she played live she probably used a DI box or a Pre Amp/ DI combo.  Nobody should really plug a passive acoustic electric instrument directly into the Mixing board,  it will; probably sound terrible. Same with an Audio interface. 

A lot of players spend time looking for the perfect combination of pick up system and pre amp if they play acoustic instruments on stage. And this can translate nicely to a studio if you get it right. 

A lot of instruments have everything built right in and some those can sound good without an outboard device.  But generally, if it doesn't need a battery, it needs an outboard Pre Amp. And we are not talking the one in you mixing board or interface, even if it's marked HiZ.  Instrument pre amps are different by design. They have special EQ and the better ones have  compression and saturation. 

It's the same story as with electric guitars. They need that preamp that was built for there voicing. That's why a guitar sim can never sound as good as a real guitar amp and a mike. So plugging an acoustic instrument directly to a interface and hoping to fix it in the mix is wishful thinking. 

There's a million Videos on the topic " How to amplify your acoustic guitar". A lot of what applies to a guitar applies to a violin, banjo, mandolin, bass or dobro. Just the pick up systems will be different designs. 

And I say systems, as there's at least 5 or 6  different systems you can purchase including clip on microphones, under saddle and button piezo transducers, magnetic PU's and combinations of some these. 

But for most a good quality Pre Amp will be a must. I use my TC Voice Live Play Acoustic as a pre amp as example. I also have a Radial Tone Bone and I'm lusting after the LR Baggs Aline Session box. 

Edited January 19, 2024 by John Vere

[Starship Krupa]

4 hours ago, John Vere said:

This is an old thread but what the OP was possibly experiencing is when she played live she probably used a DI box or a Pre Amp/ DI combo.  Nobody should really plug a passive acoustic electric instrument directly into the Mixing board,  it will; probably sound terrible. Same with an Audio interface. 

This.

Back in my pedal building days, aside from my commercial line, I made a few MOSFET boosters for friends. At least one of them went to a studio owner who was having issues with recording a bandmate's stand-up bass via the piezo pickup. The MOSFET booster was the miracle cure.

One of the features of the preamp pedal (I used the Jack Orman MOSFET boost schematic verbatim) is a whopping 10M input impedance. Apparently, with piezo pickups, the more the merrier as far as input impedance.

[John Vere]

Being someone who did a lot of live sound I always had a bunch of DI/ pre amps on hand. Like the Art Tube pre was a good one for those wimpy transducers. A lot of the amateur players were always blown away by the full sound they were all of a sudden hearing. Most had been playing though small guitar amps.  I still see that.  
I was in a music store last summer and tried all the $$$$ acoustic amps they had on hand. They all more or less sucked. Overpriced powered speakers. You’re better off with a good stomp box pre and a small powered speaker. Half the price too.  

[Bridget Murphy]

On 1/20/2024 at 3:05 AM, Alan Bachman said:

If you do go the microphone route - consider a good ribbon mic like a Samar VL37 or AEA 84 or 44.

That sounds like a good idea. Good mic for that price.

[Duncan Stitt]

A cheap alternative to expensive ribbon mics might be the SE V7. It's a $100 dynamic mic for stage vocals, but with a less crispy high end. I use mine on violin all the time.  I also add the Nomad Factory E-Tube Tape Warmer plugin, which reduces any crispy high end that might still be there.

Mic positioning also makes a big difference. Using Direct Sound Isolation headphones helps with positioning. You might find a sweet spot on either side of the body. At the center of the body (the neck and strings) you got lots of raspy string sound but not much fullness.

[Bridget Murphy]

On 1/27/2024 at 6:50 AM, Duncan Stitt said:

A cheap alternative to expensive ribbon mics might be the SE V7. It's a $100 dynamic mic for stage vocals, but with a less crispy high end. I use mine on violin all the time.  I also add the Nomad Factory E-Tube Tape Warmer plugin, which reduces any crispy high end that might still be there.

Mic positioning also makes a big difference. Using Direct Sound Isolation headphones helps with positioning. You might find a sweet spot on either side of the body. At the center of the body (the neck and strings) you got lots of raspy string sound but not much fullness.

Thank you for sharing your methods. They sound simple yet very practical and effective.

[Bridget Murphy]

On 4/1/2020 at 9:25 AM, Victoria Johnson said:

I have a piezo pickup on my violin; it sounds great live. The problem is when I try to record it. I'm not making a CD or anything close but recording originals, band tunes etc. My violin sounds .. well, terrible. Is there a way to tweak that in Cakewalk so it is so ugly sounding - nasally, shrill at times, very "electric". I was surprised since it sounds so natural live (yes, I know it isn't quite natural .. but close). I'm not by any means a recording aficionado so have limited skills. I can use prochannel tweeks on the other instruments (guitar, cello, irish drum.. from BIAB) and they sound amazing.

Piezo pickups can sometimes produce a harsh, unnatural sound when recorded, especially compared to the natural sound you hear live.