Corona Fred

[Sheens]

I'm not a smart person, not very intelligent...just a normal working guy so I might be wrong.

I go on Youtube type 'Wuhan' and after 30 minutes or so, I think I've seen how the Chinese controlled the virus.

(it's quarantaine, only essential go to work wearing masks, and everyone stays inside all the time, food/essentials is dropped off by the government).

Everyone going out of the house always wear masks and keep distance to other people and only speak when it's needed.

Then after some weeks when the situation is under control,  in steps normal life is resumed.

Now all over the world each countries government is trying to invent this wheel again, and what I think happens is they wait too long 'locking the place down by complete quarantaine' until the hospitals cannot deal with the exploded amount of sick people and people start dying without getting medical help.

People that die are mostly all conscious until the very end, they know what's coming (with drowning this must be one of the most horrific deaths) and cannot even say goodbye to their loved ones.

I wonder how we can fly to the moon but are we so stupid that we cannot copy an existing procedure for virus outbreak ?

Maybe the western world has had 1 or 2 generations too much that lived in luxury and wealth and freedom of choice, and therefore we cannot go into a basic survival mode, it's a too great change in our mind that we cannot make maybe. Being forced to eat whatever is in the bag you get, having to improvise, no alcohol and no sigarettes, maybe no coffee, or just some bread, an apple, banana, soup and cookies for the day, hoping there's some toothpaste in the next bag is too brutale for us.  Fortunately it seems the Chinese had leader(s) that saved most of them.

Sorry had to get this off my chest....wishing everyone well in this time 

Feel free please to comment if/as you like.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Sheens

[craigb]

[craigb]

 

[Sheens]

My own 'panic' here in Europe is seeing the numbers here rising so fast, this week maybe, next weeks surely very sick people cannot get an oxygen machine or even a hospital bed and die fully conscious while not being able to say goodbye to their loved ones.

Here in Netherlands 6412 people got the virus and about 5% (356) died just in a few weeks, but the rate/factor/speed for the increase is scary.

The politicians here are all about trying to come across calm and positive in the media, but not capable of handling a crisis situation.

Boy I wish there was just 1 politician that was full of panic and desperate, but made the right call..

The majors and doctors in Italy for example too are on the internet warning the rest of the world, but other countries think they know better how to deal with this than Italy or Asia (how have experienced 2 virus outbreaks).

Even from an economy point not taking a 'small loss' now , is a catastrophic decision I'd say.

But I hope and trust there will be fast and good decision made, and especially the American people themselves who done so much for other people across the world, take care of their own safety.  

I grew up nearby an American WW2 cemetery and my mum and dad were liberated by American and Canadian troops fe,  and as a child I admired the American people already.....stay safe.

Edited March 26, 2020 by Sheens

[Notes_Norton]

The problem with capitalism is that if there is no profit incentive, nothing gets done.

And the politicians delay before they do anything and won't budge until the financial losses reach the point where it gets more profitable and the oligarchy tells them to move. Plus they dump their stocks while telling the public not to panic.

China built a huge hospital immediately (no profit motive but life saving) and isolated.

I'm not saying communism is better. I prefer capitalism (but with sensible controls), but there are some things each system does better and worse than the other.

And when some politician says in so many words, "give up your life for the good of the economy" I say "You first".

Notes

 

[Sheens]

Probably there's 50,60 and 70 year old US farmers, that watch the virus with horror.

They learnt in their life that when 1 of their Cow got sick by a virus, they had to isolate it quickly (medicate when possible) and check all their 'inventory' and isolate or cure sick animals very fast.

They know (from experience) what's ahead for people and economy probably better than the current average government leaders (I would not do better surely and don't blame every politician, there's a lot of them really wanting to do what's best for people honestly).

Then I hope miracles exist and in this case I hope a scientist performs a miracle quickly by making a vaccin.

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Sheens

[bayoubill]

I Am out and about getting meds and groceries. 
this is like living in a sci fi movie 

[bayoubill]

Not many cars on the roads

people wearing masks and gloves 

scary

 

 

[Byron Dickens]

Quite frankly, I am much more concerned about the panic and stupidity than I am about the virus itself. 

[Sheens]

 

56 minutes ago, bayoubill said:

Not many cars on the roads

people wearing masks and gloves 

scary

 

 

Roger that, but even an oldie like me can get used to put on a mask.

we'll be fine and laughing at work again soon....I've ordered a few shirts like below to wear at work.

 

[backwoods]

we're locked down in NZ for 4 weeks. crappy NZ media waiting for america to find a vaccine in next 4 weeks and very very mad at POTUS. we'll come out of lockdown with hardly any deaths but still vulnerable while rest of world will be moving toward herd immunity whilst not killing their economies. half expectiing our crappy govt to close our borders permanently so we become albania of the south pacific.

[craigb]

5 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

The problem with capitalism is that if there is no profit incentive, nothing gets done.

And the politicians delay before they do anything and won't budge until the financial losses reach the point where it gets more profitable and the oligarchy tells them to move. Plus they dump their stocks while telling the public not to panic.

China built a huge hospital immediately (no profit motive but life saving) and isolated.

I'm not saying communism is better. I prefer capitalism (but with sensible controls), but there are some things each system does better and worse than the other.

And when some politician says in so many words, "give up your life for the good of the economy" I say "You first".

Notes

 

Sorry Bob, but there's a lot of (media induced?) inaccuracies there!

Even if the virus goes worst case scenario, there's still a very good chance that MORE people will die if the economy collapses.  However, what you're seeing isn't capitalism, some actual capitalists are calling it "criminal capitalism" because it will cause more issues than it solves.  Also, I don't want to go into politics but, from what I've read and seen, most people have things 180 degrees backwards (not their fault, this is the message some want to send).

Economics 101:

- True capitalism creates wealth and a better standard of living

- Runaway capitalism is bad

- Socialism isn't even a thing, it's only the transition period between capitalism and Communism

- Communism is far worse than runaway capitalism because, not only do a select few get all the wealth, but there's a lot less for the bottom end and those that complain tend to get purged quickly.

Any of the Collectivism approaches may temporarily spread the wealth out (although a careful viewer will notice that those promoting the plan tend to exclude "their" wealth from the plan), however it's been noted many times that even if you did spread everything out, in a very short period of time the same distribution that you started with would form.  You just simply have a smaller number of people who understand money than those that don't (and, on purpose, this is NOT taught in schools!).

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing real or useful about politics.  They're just a tool for those who really run everything and, now that they've added the FANG's to their arsenal (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix and Google) along with over 90% of all mass media (owned by three companies!), the chances of you hearing about what's really going on are close to zero.

[tinfoil hat time]

I'm now understanding more about why there was so much panic and hysteria.  As I mentioned before, it's no secret that one of the goals of those that run everything (and a key part of UN Agenda 21) is to have one global currency, preferably electronic.  There's already a bill to create a US Cryptocurrency.  The guy leading the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom, has a history of some shady actions (like hiding a Cholera outbreak multiple times), but he's already been on the media telling everyone not to use cash since the virus can be passed that way and to only use credit (part of getting people used to not using cash). 

These people are trying to create a scenario (by using the virus and other tools) where the masses will panic and demand a solution.  What's the solution?  A new economy based on an electronic currency.  If this occurs, we will be totally and completely screwed.  This is the end game of the move to a fiat currency that started first when we first (illegally) started having to pay taxes (1913), then continued with the (illegal) creation of a central bank (i.e., the "Fed" - also in 1913), which was followed by disconnecting the US Dollar from having any underlying value (when Nixon stopped the Gold Standard in 1971).  Also note that the US Dollar became the World's Reserve Currency back in 1944 and has been what the World uses to buy oil since the early 1970's (the Petrodollar).  So, changing the US Dollar to an electronic crytocurrency affects the entire World.

Think about it:  If ALL currency is invisible and controlled by a central bank (whose members DO NOT answer to any government), all they need to do to enslave people and keep them in line is to arbitrarily change account balances or threaten to withhold all of a persons "money."  No thanks!

[/tinfoil hat time]

[craigb]

1 hour ago, Byron Dickens said:

Quite frankly, I am much more concerned about the panic and stupidity than I am about the virus itself. 

Byron gets it!

 

Although I shouldn't have to mention this, YES I do wish everyone all the best and hope everyone stays healthy!

Those with the big agenda NEED something that's serious (or is made to look serious) to get the public reaction they're looking for.  Just because some of us are looking at the bigger picture doesn't mean we don't care.  In fact, it just pisses me off more that they're putting us in this position.

[Sheens]

4 minutes ago, craigb said:

Sorry Bob, but there's a lot of (media induced?) inaccuracies there!

Even if the virus goes worst case scenario, there's still a very good chance that MORE people will die if the economy collapses.  However, what you're seeing isn't capitalism, some actual capitalists are calling it "criminal capitalism" because it will cause more issues than it solves.  Also, I don't want to go into politics but, from what I've read and seen, most people have things 180 degrees backwards (not their fault, this is the message some want to send).

Economics 101:

- True capitalism creates wealth and a better standard of living

- Runaway capitalism is bad

- Socialism isn't even a thing, it's only the transition period between capitalism and Communism

- Communism is far worse than runaway capitalism because, not only do a select few get all the wealth, but there's a lot less for the bottom end and those that complain tend to get purged quickly.

Any of the Collectivism approaches may temporarily spread the wealth out (although a careful viewer will notice that those promoting the plan tend to exclude "their" wealth from the plan), however it's been noted many times that even if you did spread everything out, in a very short period of time the same distribution that you started with would form.  You just simply have a smaller number of people who understand money than those that don't (and, on purpose, this is NOT taught in schools!).

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing real or useful about politics.  They're just a tool for those who really run everything and, now that they've added the FANG's to their arsenal (Facebook, Amazon, Netflix and Google) along with over 90% of all mass media (owned by three companies!), the chances of you hearing about what's really going on are close to zero.

[tinfoil hat time]

I'm now understanding more about why there was so much panic and hysteria.  As I mentioned before, it's no secret that one of the goals of those that run everything (and a key part of UN Agenda 21) is to have one global currency, preferably electronic.  There's already a bill to create a US Cryptocurrency.  The guy leading the World Health Organization (WHO), Tedros Adhanom, has a history of some shady actions (like hiding a Cholera outbreak multiple times), but he's already been on the media telling everyone not to use cash since the virus can be passed that way and to only use credit (part of getting people used to not using cash). 

These people are trying to create a scenario (by using the virus and other tools) where the masses will panic and demand a solution.  What's the solution?  A new economy based on an electronic currency.  If this occurs, we will be totally and completely screwed.  This is the end game of the move to a fiat currency that started first when we first (illegally) started having to pay taxes (1913), then continued with the (illegal) creation of a central bank (i.e., the "Fed" - also in 1913), which was followed by disconnecting the US Dollar from having any underlying value (when Nixon stopped the Gold Standard in 1971).  Also note that the US Dollar became the World's Reserve Currency back in 1944 and has been what the World uses to buy oil since the early 1970's (the Petrodollar).  So, changing the US Dollar to an electronic crytocurrency affects the entire World.

Think about it:  If ALL currency is invisible and controlled by a central bank (whose members DO NOT answer to any government), all they need to do to enslave people and keep them in line is to arbitrarily change account balances or threaten to withhold all of a persons "money."  No thanks!

[/tinfoil hat time]

Hey Craig, the best current solution is performed by the Chinese (there must be US people in Wuhan that can confirm).

All of Europe every day see higher numbers and percentages of infections, than recoveries.....with MASSIVE hospital efforts, public shutdowns etc....it's an upwards battle Europe and even USA cannot win without a vaccin/cure.

I

 

[Sheens]

Craig, what agenda would an Italy doctor or city major have to speak to the world, warning them for what they learned the hard way ?

Can you draw a diagram ?  vertical line with number of deaths, horizontal the timeline....fill in numbers of last 7 days and connect them by drawing a line.

Look a month, or 3 months ahead.

There is just no beating a epidemic without a vaccin,  China and any US farmer who has his herd infected once will confirm.

Stay calm mate, you're great as are all the American people and soon I hope everyone will be safe.

 

[craigb]

15 minutes ago, Sheens said:

Hey Craig, the best current solution is performed by the Chinese (there must be US people in Wuhan that can confirm).

All of Europe every day see higher numbers and percentages of infections, than recoveries.....with MASSIVE hospital efforts, public shutdowns etc....it's an upwards battle Europe and even USA cannot win without a vaccin/cure.

I

 

Yikes!  NOTHING could be farther from the truth!

There are places that are getting some of the REAL reports of what's going on in China.  They have much more restrictive media than the US.

What I'm reading is that most of the reports exalting the merits of the people creating new hospitals, etc., etc. are just propaganda for the World to see.  Most of the actual numbers are being hidden.

So what's been the main "solution" they're using?  LOTS of people have been forcibly quarantined in their houses and left to die of starvation (by "forcibly" I mean actually sealed in their houses by whatever measures were necessary, including welding the doors shut, etc.!).  There's satellite footage of body burnings and mass burials.  One ominous report shows that there are 21 million fewer cell phone users now than when the outbreak started...  Now, I'm not sure exactly what to make of that, but you can bet others are making a sickening assumption.

As for everyone else, I expect a vaccine to appear soon.  Like I said elsewhere, this is a known virus that was being tested prior to the outbreak and an exact simulation took place six weeks before the outbreak (it was filmed - search for Event 201).  So, my guess is that they probably have a vaccine, but need to finish the clinical trials before getting it out.

[craigb]

10 minutes ago, Sheens said:

Craig, what agenda would an Italy doctor or city major have to speak to the world, warning them for what they learned the hard way ?

Can you draw a diagram ?  vertical line with number of deaths, horizontal the timeline....fill in numbers of last 7 days and connect them by drawing a line.

Look a month, or 3 months ahead.

There is just no beating a epidemic without a vaccin,  China and any US farmer who has his herd infected once will confirm.

Stay calm mate, you're great as are all the American people and soon I hope everyone will be safe.

 

Remember, there are TWO agendas going on!  The first is from the good people (like the doctors) who care about others and are doing their best to handle the situation as if it was a naturally occurring event (which, I will allow, there's still a very slim chance it was).  If you ONLY look at the outbreak by itself, then these people are doing their best (as per their training) to save as many as they can.  I have a lot of appreciation for them as well as sadness that they've been put into this awful position (since many will be losing their own lives to save others).

As for your vaccine comment, no offense, but do you know what a vaccine really is?  A vaccine is usually a sterilized version of the virus (i.e., one that cannot replicate).  It is no different to the body than actually getting the real virus, except that the body can apply all of its focus to coming up with a way to defeat the invaders (as opposed to also spending lots of energy fending off the new cells that are replicating).  What this means is that you ARE beating the virus regardless of whether you are vaccinated or not.  Regardless of whether you "beat" the virus using a vaccine or not, once you have gotten over it, your body now has a blueprint on exactly how to attack and remove the virus the next time you get it.  As such, for the current outbreak, a vaccine is only effective if you get it before you contract the virus.

I'm guessing you meant to say "anti-body" which is something that can help the body defend itself against foreign invaders.

[Sheens]

hey Craig,  there must US people in Wuhan that can tell the real story to the people at home.

I've seen those messages about the cellphones in China, you and I don't know for sure if this is true or not.

Are the reports from China recovery real or or they BS ?  We don't know but like you believe this story, I personally rate this the same as all the conspiracy stories. 

But fortunately there's many people at work right now to solve the virus problem.

 

Edited March 26, 2020 by Sheens

[Sheens]

Hey Craig, well I meant a  'cure' I guess...sorry.  

So far here at least it's not clear yet (but testing has started) that people that recover will not be affected again by this virus. 

[craigb]

2 minutes ago, Sheens said:

hey Craig,  there must US people in Wuhan that can tell the real story to the people at home.

I've seen those messages about the cellphones in China, you and I don't know for sure if this is true or not.

Are the reports from China recovery real or or they propaganda ?  We don't know but like you believe this story, I personally rate this the same as all the conspiracy stories. 

But fortunately there's many people at work right now to solve the virus problem.

 

A look into history and you'll see that every virus has a fairly predictable pattern:  A slow start, exponential growth and a dying off period (for the virus).  Several things can change how the pattern looks.  In some cases (e.g., Ebola 2014), the virus is so lethal that it doesn't get the chance to spread very far (i.e., the infected die too quickly).

So, left to itself, you should expect things to get better in the same manner that they got worse.  In other words, China had it first, so they should be the first to get better, and so on.   For simplicity's sake, I'm intentionally ignoring reinfection either from other areas of the world getting back into China (to hit those that missed it the first time) or, a much bigger danger, that the virus will mutate which basically needs to be treated like a completely new outbreak.

My confidence of what China's reporting is accuracy is extremely low.