MMCSS

[Jon White]

I have a Lynx PCI audio card that just got a new driver.  In the verbiage on changes, it says that DAW and audio application writers should not be implementing prioritization from within an ASIO application, and that this is stated in the ASIO spec.

What does this mean?  That we should not check "MMCSS" in our audio setup?  That checkbox is available in my Lynx driver utiity.  Should I check it there and not in Cakewalk?

I ask because my system falls apart (crackles, audio engine stoppage) whenever I do anything with graphics (open a new window, check the web, etc.).  Of course, Cake is my only DAW that does anything like this, so I'm hunting for ways to improve performance.

HERE IS LYNX' verbiage:

Quote

Added work-around for some ASIO applications (Cakewalk, Studio One, Ableton Live) that set the priority of the driver thread (setting the priority of the driver thread should never be done by an ASIO application per the ASIO specification).  Also added the ability for the end user to turn off the MMCSS priority of the driver thread for applications that insist on setting the drivers thread priority.

 

[MediaGary]

Any progress on this? I just ordered a Lynx AES16e-50 and would like to benefit from any experience out there.

[Starship Krupa]

Progress? Do you mean progress on learning whether Lynx are interpreting Steinberg's specification correctly when they say that no application should ever set the priority of the driver thread, and why they think they know that Cakewalk, Studio One, and Ableton Live! are setting the priority of the ASIO driver thread and if that's actually the problem when their card fails to work smoothly with these products?

That is cause for pondering. It seems odd, PreSonus has more than a little bit of experience working with ASIO drivers and the hardware that uses them,  and the team that started Studio One came to PreSonus from Steinberg. Shoot, my 15-year-old Firepods are still going strong, 4 versions of Windows down the line.

With a product that whines right out of the box about having driver compatibility issues with 3 different popular and established DAW's I guess you're kind of rollin' the dice anyway. Is it too late to maybe find a card with more robust drivers? If not, it sounds like Jon's good at finding audio software that's compatible with their cards. I think he said that on his system it's a matter of course that Cakewalk's the only one that the Lynx chokes on. I presume there's no Studio One or Ableton Live! in the picture?

@Jon White, if you were having problems this severe I'm sure you must have opened a ticket with BandLab's support about this issue, what did they say about it?

Note: MMCSS and ASIO have nothing to do with each other. MMCSS is part of Microsoft's WASAPI specification. ASIO is a Steinberg invention and designed to bypass Windows' built-in audio driver systems.

[Jon White]

On 4/7/2020 at 11:06 AM, Starship Krupa said:

Progress? Do you mean progress on learning whether Lynx are interpreting Steinberg's specification correctly when they say that no application should ever set the priority of the driver thread, and why they think they know that Cakewalk, Studio One, and Ableton Live! are setting the priority of the ASIO driver thread and if that's actually the problem when their card fails to work smoothly with these products?

That is cause for pondering. It seems odd, PreSonus has more than a little bit of experience working with ASIO drivers and the hardware that uses them,  and the team that started Studio One came to PreSonus from Steinberg. Shoot, my 15-year-old Firepods are still going strong, 4 versions of Windows down the line.

With a product that whines right out of the box about having driver compatibility issues with 3 different popular and established DAW's I guess you're kind of rollin' the dice anyway. Is it too late to maybe find a card with more robust drivers? If not, it sounds like Jon's good at finding audio software that's compatible with their cards. I think he said that on his system it's a matter of course that Cakewalk's the only one that the Lynx chokes on. I presume there's no Studio One or Ableton Live! in the picture?

@Jon White, if you were having problems this severe I'm sure you must have opened a ticket with BandLab's support about this issue, what did they say about it?

Note: MMCSS and ASIO have nothing to do with each other. MMCSS is part of Microsoft's WASAPI specification. ASIO is a Steinberg invention and designed to bypass Windows' built-in audio driver systems.

Very intelligent and emotional (human) response, Star.  I learned something.  Yes, I've received direct response from Cake.  I think I'll leave this one alone.  It's beyond just the technical.  Lynx stuff is very cool.  They didn't expect folks to be trying to control MMCSS.

[Kevin Walsh]

It would be useful if you were to share with us what you've learned.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Kevin Walsh

[Jon White]

9 hours ago, Kevin Walsh said:

It would be useful if you were to share with us what you've learned.

Hi Kevin, I meant that Starship's comments taught me a bit.  

In terms of what I learned from the vendors: very little.  Lynx turned out to even be unaware that Cake has the checkbox.  I was disappointed all the way around.  I now have it checked in both Cakewalk and the Lynx driver.  I wish I knew the actual details.  And when I put a heavy song into Cake, I really can't tell which setting makes the audio troubles better, because the results change on restart of Cakewalk.  Very odd stuff.

[Starship Krupa]

Jon, what's up with the rest of your system, your video driver and whatnot?

Looking back over what I wrote, I hope I didn't come down too hard on Lynx. That bit in their manual that seems to be talking smack about the coding practices of Cakewalk and Ableton Live and Studio One rubbed me the wrong way. I just consider that sort of thing to be bad form. Full disclosure: I used to write user manuals for tech companies.

I happen to know some of the history with Cakewalk's business practices, and one of the things we as users have going for us is that Cakewalk, Inc. always had a close relationship with Microsoft, one that Noel and co. have maintained into the BandLab era. They pay attention to standards and specifications, and while I don't know about Ableton, I do know the early history of Studio One. It started as a project of a couple of engineers who had left Steinberg, the company who wrote the ASIO specification in the first place. These people all very much know what they are doing.

On 3/17/2020 at 6:38 AM, Jon White said:

Added work-around for some ASIO applications that set the priority of the driver thread.  Also added the ability for the end user to turn off the MMCSS priority of the driver thread for applications that insist on setting the driver's thread priority.

The above is what I would consider more professional language. If they fixed the issue with their "work-around," there is no need to name names and cause the kind of fear, uncertainty and doubt that resulted in this thread.

BTW, I had it wrong when I said that MMCSS settings had no bearing on ASIO mode performance. In Cakewalk at least, they definitely do.

[Kevin Walsh]

15 hours ago, Jon White said:

Hi Kevin, I meant that Starship's comments taught me a bit.  

In terms of what I learned from the vendors: very little.  Lynx turned out to even be unaware that Cake has the checkbox.  I was disappointed all the way around.  I now have it checked in both Cakewalk and the Lynx driver.  I wish I knew the actual details.  And when I put a heavy song into Cake, I really can't tell which setting makes the audio troubles better, because the results change on restart of Cakewalk.  Very odd stuff.

Thanks, Jon, I appreciate you sharing the information you managed to get. In the immortal words of Danny Kaye, "DAW latency concerns us all."