Starship Krupa Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 A better question in February 2019, 10 months after the first release of Cakewalk by BandLab: why does this subject continue to hold such a fascination for some people, one that shows no sign of ending? Me, I think I'm done. It's like trying to explain when a 4-year-old asks why the room gets bright when you flip the light switch: no answer will ever be satisfactory. I can say that I have learned some things from these spirited discussions. For instance: 1. Nothing's ever free, and DAW software that is distributed under a freeware license will at some point extract an unspecified "payment" from those foolish enough to use it without being in a constant state of sub-clinical paranoia. You'll see. Laugh now. You won't be laughing when this unspecified bad thing eventually happens. 2. Nothing can make sense in the world except things that are within the grasp of my own personal understanding, no matter what my age, education or experience. This especially applies to software industry and online social media platform business strategies. In other words, if I don't get what they're doing, they're either doomed or up to no good. ? (or both) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Why? World domination, obviously! Just remember what happened to Netscape Navigator (paid web browser) after Microsoft gave away Internet Explorer with Windows, and the "browser wars" began ... https://www.engadget.com/2014/05/10/history-of-netscape/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 Blimey! Posted this, went to the dentist, went to visit my lad and bring him back here for a takeaway, watched a bit of telly, and we're now up to page two! So, if CbB is free, is it crap? I've downloaded and installed... I've now got to get my head back into SONAR mode having been using Studio One and Reaper since Gibson did the dirty. Looking pretty much like SONAR but I am very rusty. Got to update and add some MIDI instrument definitions. Got to remind myself of how to set up outboard effects sends/returns. Going to be a slow process, but needs must as the devil drives, or something like that (REAPER and MIDI hardware sync has let me down and Studio One has turned out to be a VST only DAW...) I'll try to catch up with some of the ramblings here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 At the time of the Great Shutdown, much expert opinion was expressed that Cubase was the best alternative option to Cakewalk for Windows users who are heavy users of MIDI hardware. Now that Cakewalk lives, the original (and maybe best option for MIDI hardware users) is back on the table, and free! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 1, 2019 Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, abacab said: Now that Cakewalk lives, the original (and maybe best option for MIDI hardware users) is back on the table But for how long, and I ain't so bothered about the free thing. In fact, perhaps it is the free thing that is bothering me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 There I go forgetting another thing that these threads have taught me which is: 3. Things that are available for free, like sunlight and air, are inherently of lesser utility and deserving of lesser respect than things for which one must pay money, like this book of selfies by Kim Kardashian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 I think Meng is doing the Facebook model with Bandlab and CbB. Plus Meng is well funded with a different philosophy then Corporate America quarterly profits. Anyway glad you're back in the hood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 9 minutes ago, synkrotron said: perhaps it is the free thing that is bothering me... Perhaps you would be more comfortable with this book of selfies by Kim Kardashian. It is not free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 3 hours ago, Craig Anderton said: Chrome, of course Good my ship has an anti-repel for Chrome. Now if were a Chromium base Tracktor beam I might be in trouble. Of course if it were 7 of 9 coming to get me I might be lured in ? Whoops I think this response belongs down in the Coffee House thread about us Star Trek Nerds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, InstrEd said: the Coffee House thread about us Star Trek Nerds Wait, what? Locking on coordinates.... (Android. Dark Matter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Dark Matter................. That's it!!!!!! How Meng is able to offer CbB for free........ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leizer Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 2 hours ago, abacab said: Why? World domination, obviously! Just remember what happened to Netscape Navigator (paid web browser) after Microsoft gave away Internet Explorer with Windows, and the "browser wars" began ... https://www.engadget.com/2014/05/10/history-of-netscape/ Yeah, I always wondered how the guys making IE could make a living giving that away for free. ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 For anybody with concerns about the free software model, take a look at Red Hat Linux. They give away the open source software, and sell support for it. Revenue nearly 3 Billion last year, with net income 2.58 Million. Free software. Yup. https://www.redhat.com/en https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/rht/financials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 So, the bottom line is, I should not be concerned that CbB is not a flash in the pan and despite being free is a good, solid DAW (SONAR) and I should simply embrace it (assuming it is able to cope with my hardware/software issues)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 YEP! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Despite being free?? Not having to pay a licensing fee is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If there's a downside, I'm having a hard time thinking of it. Cakewalk was once payware licensed, produced by a company whose revenue stream depended on selling licenses for Sonar and its add-ons. Under that traditional, simple "we make a product, you buy it" model, the company gradually became less and less profitable to the point that it was dissolved after 30 years of being in business and has now ceased to exist. I don't know exactly what happened, but my guess would be market saturation. Looks like they tried to diversify the product line, smart move, but couldn't make it stick. Sonar, by the time it breathed its last, had developed a reputation for crashiness and instability. I'm not going to argue with anyone about this, whether you think it's fair or not. I ran the first version of CbB and I at least will attest to some accuracy of that reputation. I remember that I'd resize the main window and the Now Time marker would sort of go off on a solo career, still moving, just not anywhere near the DAW. Screen elements would get orphaned, and the whole program would lock up from doing things like deleting a plug-in. So I'd always Save before removing a plug-in or moving a clip to another lane. 30 days later, I downloaded an update that was very much improved. 60 days later I downloaded one that, as a veteran software QA engineer, knocked me on my ass. It was not only way more stable, it loaded faster and was just way zippier in general. It even introduced new features, which I thought was freaking amazing for a product that had been hauled off in the meatwagon 6 months earlier. These people had put on their ass-kicking boots and were laying waste. So you can keep your payware thing. If you think it makes for better software or better chances for a stable company, well, go ahead and think that, but recent history has shown the exact opposite on both counts when it comes to Cakewalk. I could go into why freeware actually makes for better software, but I did that at TOP and I'm tired of going over it again and again. Just use the damn thing. Don't worry about the company. If you weren't suspicious of Gibson/Cakewalk, why be suspicious of BandLab? Companies go under. Tech companies go under. Cakewalk had a 30-year ride, which is unheard of. History says that even industry leading software titles (and the companies who depend upon them for revenue) don't rule for long. Who today after all, remembers WordStar? Word Perfect? VisiCalc? Lotus 1-2-3? Netware? Eudora Mail? I wonder, is Pro Tools becoming the next Word Perfect? The program that once had a stranglehold but that got complacent, made a few too many mistakes? Really, Avid, no native VST support? At this late date? The new kids coming up, the laptop/bedroom producers, does Pro Tools have any share at all among new people coming in? Can you even run Sausage Fattener in Pro Tools? I don't think new home studio people really give much consideration to PT. I think it's considered a necessary nuisance, if you run a pro facility or want to work in one you have to have it, but most people would prefer to be working in Logic or Cakewalk or Studio One or Reaper or whatever. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 2, 2019 Author Share Posted February 2, 2019 Thanks for your large post there, @Starship Krupa, you make some good points. But if you are "tired of going over it again and again," why bother? Just stick me on "ignore" and stress not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fogarty Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 those of us who have been using it for years choose it above the competition. I could just never get my head around any other DAW -mainly because my workflow has been steady for many years for which I am thankful. I have enough things to learn including Japanese without having to learn how to use a new DAW. Yes, I learn how to use Omnisphere, Komplete Kontrol, East-West Composer, tweak instruments, new plug-ins for mixing, new tracking techniques, etc, etc. So, I and many others were already sold on it, heard it was going to die and went looking for other options. I was given Studio One and a Studio 192/DP88 to produce music on. Oh, how slow I was and oh how fast I jumped at Cakewalk when it returned. For new people, they will see that we have the best forum going. I just re-installed Windows and upgraded my hardware DIY which would have not been possible without this forum. I have been a musician all my life. I have never had an IT job and can only scratch the surface of what can be done. But I can keep my computer running now. The base of new people will grow and grow, and yes, eventually, maybe they will ask for $100 -just like every other major DAW company. Then you/we will have to choose what to do. I do believe giving it away free is/was a smart move. It wasn't free for most of us. I have paid for every upgrade since the beginning of Cakewalk when I first saw it advertised in EM in the 80's I think it was. Let's see what happens. The core team seems to be savvy of how business works these days. I am sure they are more knowledgeable than most of us here. Just riding it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 hours ago, synkrotron said: But if you are "tired of going over it again and again," why bother? Just stick me on "ignore" and stress not. Just opinions that's all. We are all entitled to our own as far as im concerned (within reason anyway). I totally get what Starship Krupa is saying and I agree with him (a little lengthy yes )... But I also agree with your concerns. but its one of those things where.. you either take the chance or you don't. Your either willing to enjoy it and have fun or use something else. See in my case, I didn't buy another DAW when Gibson went under, instead I focused on finishing up the material I had within Sonar and then I would learn a new DAW when finished(I bought Studio one). I loaded it up and have opened it.. But I only intended to do serious work in Studio one if Cakewalk by Bandlab gave me any lip. So far she's been a good girl. How long will it be free ? Im not worrying about that just like im not worrying about what I will do when my free car dies. Totally see your points though. I felt just like you did a year ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 I see an advantage of freeware and selling add-ons or luring into the great wide world of Bandlab. In order for a profit product to remain successful, it must sell itself again and again every year. Feature after feature is added and when there is nothing left for the users to upgrade the next year (to keep the cash flowing) the company has to add things people don't really need, perhaps don't want, and affecting the stability of the program. Corporations are funny things. They depend on perpetual growth and we know perpetual growth of anything on Earth is impossible. If it doesn't keep growing, the stock prices will decline, and the stockholders will sell their stock and move on, and as the stock becomes worth less and less the company goes into deeper and deeper debt. Having the app as a loss leader or for selling add-ons might be a good idea in that the product doesn't need to bloat every year to sell the yearly upgrade. I don't know if this pertains to CbB or not, I'm just musing on the subject. Insights and incites by Notes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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