Sonar Occasionally Gets Stuck in Memory

[Jerry Gerber]

Every once in a while Sonar gets stuck in memory and using the task manager to end the task doesn't work.  I tried opening the command prompt and typing:

taskkill /IM Sonarplt.exe /f /t

But I get the message that this program is not in memory (even though it is).  When I go to task manager-details, it shows that Sonar is still in memory and when I click on it to end task, I get a message saying "access denied". When I try shutting down the computer it won't shut down until I do a hard reset.  Then, everything is OK.

Anybody know what's going on and how I can fix this?

Thanks!

Jerry

 

 

[msmcleod]

This is almost always caused by a rogue plugin not closing down properly.

Are you using any bit-bridged / jbridged 32 bit plugins? These are loaded in separate processes and can cause the symptoms you're describing if they're not behaving themselves.

[Jerry Gerber]

Hi msmcleod,

Native Instruments Kontakt is the only plugin that's being used in the current piece I'm working on and its' definitely 64-bit.  I try to avoid all 32- bit plugins, I don't even have any installed...

The Task Manager is reporting that Sonar is the program that is stuck in memory, I don't see any reference to Kontakt or any other plugins in the Task Manager, but maybe that's normal...

Thanks,

Jerry

[scook]

If it is not a plug-in, the DAW may be waiting on audio interface. Try turning the interface off and on.

Plug-ins won't show up in the Task Manager because they are hosted in the DAW or in the case of 32bit plug-ins when running a 64bit DAW a separate 32bit server.

 

[Chaps]

Sometimes I try to close and re-open Cakewalk but the program doesn't launch so I have to use the Task Manager/Processes Tab to close Cakewalk (which is why I have the Task Manager pinned to my taskbar). This has never failed to close Cakewalk. However, I have had problems shutting down the VLC Media Player and the Task Manager/Processes Tab fails to shut it down, but ending the task in the Task Manager/Details Tab will shut it down. So, my suggestion is to see if Cakewalk is active in the Details Tab and end it there.

[Jerry Gerber]

1 hour ago, Javadude54 said:

Sometimes I try to close and re-open Cakewalk but the program doesn't launch so I have to use the Task Manager/Processes Tab to close Cakewalk (which is why I have the Task Manager pinned to my taskbar). This has never failed to close Cakewalk. However, I have had problems shutting down the VLC Media Player and the Task Manager/Processes Tab fails to shut it down, but ending the task in the Task Manager/Details Tab will shut it down. So, my suggestion is to see if Cakewalk is active in the Details Tab and end it there.

Yeah, I've tried that (shutting it down from the Details Tab of the Task Manager.)  That's where I get the message "access denied".  I did reinstall Sonar and that seems to have fixed the issue. 

[Jerry Gerber]

2 hours ago, scook said:

If it is not a plug-in, the DAW may be waiting on audio interface. Try turning the interface off and on.

Plug-ins won't show up in the Task Manager because they are hosted in the DAW or in the case of 32bit plug-ins when running a 64bit DAW a separate 32bit server.

 

Thanks, I'll try that if it happens again.  Reinstalling Sonar seems to have done the trick, but we'll see...

 

[Jerry Gerber]

This is puzzling,  Here's what I have tried when, on occasion, Sonar gets stuck in memory:

1.  Use the Task Manager to end the task, including on the details tab.

2.  Ending the tasks for the audio drivers (in my case MOTU).

3.  Opening Windows PowerShell and using taskkill /IM SONARPLT.exe /f to kill the task.

4.  Turning off the audio interface (MOTU 1248).

5. Signing out of Windows and signing back in (curiously, this removes Sonar from the task manager list but does not resolve the problem of shutting down the computer

What happens is when I try and restart or shut down the computer, it simply doesn't shut down or restart.  The only solution is to do a hard reset on the actual computer case, a soft reset on Windows 10 won't shut it down or restart it.  Once I do a hard reset the OS boots normally, Sonar is no longer in memory and I can work again.

Any other ideas that might resolve this?

Thank you and much appreciated!

Jerry

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by jsg

[JonD]

Everything up to date?  Interface firmware/drivers, Win 10 updates...

Any processes running in the BG that could be causing the problem?  (Anti-virus, wi-fi, etc).  Also, look in Startup for any unnecessary tasks.

[Jerry Gerber]

Yeah, everything is up to date and nothing non essential in startup.

One thing I notice is that most of the time, Sonar closes properly.  When it doesn't, I'm suspecting it has to do with certain window and/or screensets being open at the time I close the program.

[Starship Krupa]

On 3/1/2020 at 10:36 AM, jsg said:

Every once in a while Sonar gets stuck in memory....

Anybody know what's going on and how I can fix this?

You've really been hammering away at this one.

Fortunately, there is a solution that is 100% effective which is to not put Sonar into memory in the first place.

Cakewalk (by BandLab), from which this forum takes its name, is a revival of the Sonar codebase, with the addition of a couple of years of bug fixes, performance and stability improvements and features (I personally witnessed issues such as the one you are experiencing becoming less and less frequent as the BandLab ownership continued).

It's licensed via a freeware subscription, which must be renewed via an internet connection at least once every 6 months. Installing it works much like Sonar did, you first install a download/licensing manager that handles the downloading and installation of the main program and add-ons. Once this is accomplished, you may uninstall the download manager until you wish to renew the subscription. No network communication is necessary until that time, and Cakewalk will warn you days in advance of the need to renew your subscription. All that is required to get the subscription is a valid email address, such as the one you used to gain access to this forum.

It installs and runs nicely alongside existing installations of Sonar, including being able to use any bundled plug-ins or other content, so there is as little risk involved in trying it as there was with any Sonar update. And it's free besides.

You could continue to search for solutions to the program's misbehavior with "everything up to date" except for the program itself, but that seems....inefficient.

[JonD]

Agree with Starship.  Wouldn't hurt to install Bandlab alongside Sonar and see how it behaves...

[Jerry Gerber]

13 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

You've really been hammering away at this one.

Fortunately, there is a solution that is 100% effective which is to not put Sonar into memory in the first place.

Cakewalk (by BandLab), from which this forum takes its name, is a revival of the Sonar codebase, with the addition of a couple of years of bug fixes, performance and stability improvements and features (I personally witnessed issues such as the one you are experiencing becoming less and less frequent as the BandLab ownership continued).

It's licensed via a freeware subscription, which must be renewed via an internet connection at least once every 6 months. Installing it works much like Sonar did, you first install a download/licensing manager that handles the downloading and installation of the main program and add-ons. Once this is accomplished, you may uninstall the download manager until you wish to renew the subscription. No network communication is necessary until that time, and Cakewalk will warn you days in advance of the need to renew your subscription. All that is required to get the subscription is a valid email address, such as the one you used to gain access to this forum.

It installs and runs nicely alongside existing installations of Sonar, including being able to use any bundled plug-ins or other content, so there is as little risk involved in trying it as there was with any Sonar update. And it's free besides.

You could continue to search for solutions to the program's misbehavior with "everything up to date" except for the program itself, but that seems....inefficient.

Sure, when Bandlab repairs the notation editor so that right-clicking calls up the context menu, without having to press CTRL, I'll download it and use it.  Until then, the little time I lose when Sonar OCCASIONALLY requires a reboot is substantially less than the time having to relearn and use an extra keystroke to do what now takes just a right-click of the mouse.  

[Starship Krupa]

On 3/8/2020 at 1:50 PM, jsg said:

Sure, when Bandlab repairs the notation editor so that right-clicking calls up the context menu, without having to press CTRL, I'll download it and use it.  Until then, the little time I lose when Sonar OCCASIONALLY requires a reboot is substantially less than the time having to relearn and use an extra keystroke to do what now takes just a right-click of the mouse.  

Oh snap (to note), and since you're a Staff View user, that's one area that has received bupkis in the way of enhancements, so you have less incentive feature-wise to go with CbB. I do suspect that it would address your stickiness issue, though. I promise you'll dig it! I'll personally refund the price of your subscription if you don't think the latest Cakewalk core is an improvement over the last Sonar core. ?

To get on the same page with you (although I mostly use Staff View only when I want to print notation or tab), I just called up Staff View and right clicked in the middle of the staff. I get a context menu with 4 sections. The first has Layout, Regenerate Tablature, and Export to ASCII. The second has commands for MIDI plug-ins and quantizing, the third has the fancy processes like Deglitch and Transpose, the fourth has the Fit to commands.

If that's the context menu you're talking about, it works with my Logitech Mouseman Marble and my Logitech M305 wireless, and I didn't touch my Ctrl key. When I right clicked holding the Ctrl key I got the same menu. When was the last time you tried CbB to see if they'd corrected it? There have been what, something like 15 updates since BandLab took over? Maybe you got used to something else during the Gibson ownership, but these guys go after bugs as if they had taken their little brothers' lunch money.

If this solves both of your issues and lets you use the new program, then I'm really glad I brought it up. Good luck.

[user 905133]

Oooops.  Reply is 100% OT in this thread; will move to another thread.

Edited March 10, 2020 by User 905133
to move OT reply

[scook]

Regarding the OP, may want to generate a hang dump and send it to Noel. For info on this see

 

[Starship Krupa]

Jerry's troubles are with running Sonar Platinum. Is Noel going to be interested in a hang dump from Sonar?

I've been trying to address his remaining issue with transitioning to CbB, which seems to have been taken care of, so all should be good once he gives it a look.

[Starship Krupa]

15 hours ago, User 905133 said:

What's the secret to getting features ungrayed out?

Oh dang. I looked at your other thread and now I realize that this must be what Jerry is talking about.

You can get the context menu, but unless you open it with Ctrl, all of those commands are greyed out. From what he says, I guess it didn't work that way in Sonar.

Won't know until he reports back.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Starship Krupa

[Jerry Gerber]

15 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Oh dang. I looked at your other thread and now I realize that this must be what Jerry is talking about.

You can get the context menu, but unless you open it with Ctrl, all of those commands are greyed out. From what he says, I guess it didn't work that way in Sonar.

Won't know until he reports back.

That's correct.  Calling up the right-click context menu for editing in the notation editor in Sonar is a one-step affair.  In Cakewalk Bandlab, one has to either click CTRL and right-click first, or, even slower, change tools.   This might sound like a small thing, but over time these extra clicks really add up, particularly when writing symphonic music with 40 MIDI tracks, dense counterpoint and huge amounts of midi programming.  

I am still wondering why and how Bandlab is giving Cakewalk away for free.  To my mind, after using Digital Performer for a year and a half, and experimenting with Cubase, Reaper and Pro Tools, Sonar Platinum, and now Cakewalk by Bandlab is the best DAW ever produced.  It's the most beautiful ergonomically, it makes so many operations simplified so I can focus on music composition and, after using DPs notation editor, I realize that Sonar's notation is actually better in several ways (even DP's editor doesn't display either dotted or tied triplets correctly, I forgot which).   But I am still wondering how a $500 DAW is being given away for free.  Bandlab must have a business model that I don't know about!

Thanks,

Jerry

www.jerrygerber.com

 

[Starship Krupa]

1 hour ago, jsg said:

Calling up the right-click context menu for editing in the notation editor in Sonar is a one-step affair.  In Cakewalk Bandlab, one has to either click CTRL and right-click first, or, even slower, change tools.

I notice that in the Piano Roll it works the way you describe, with a simple right click, so it looks as if something got botched. Do you know if this has been reported? If the behavior was changed deliberately or by accident? Did you notice the change with the very first CbB release or later?

P.S. Regarding the business model, I've posted at length regarding my speculations, but think of Google Chrome and other freeware programs that tie into other products and services that a company sells. BandLab is a diversified company with many brands, and was already marketing 3 freeware DAW's before they acquired the Cakewalk, Inc. IP. The code was already mature and in place when they bought it (likely at a good price!). It's low overhead, the people who make up the staff are not in one big office, they don't take out big magazine ads, etc. They have larger plans for it that we haven't seen yet, I am sure. We haven't been told because you don't show your hand to possible competitors.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Starship Krupa