bitflipper Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 what about microtunings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 50 minutes ago, User 905133 said: what about microtunings? Ya! And I play rawk, so tuning is optional... ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Thanks for posting that Dave! I know I really enjoyed it. I had already read all about the Hollies/Radiohead/Lana Rey cases and couldn't help but think "Um, ok, ya, they do sound similar once you REALLY analyze them, but I've heard (and like) the Hollies and Radiohead songs (sorry Lana) maybe hundreds of times and not once thought Radiohead song sounded like the Hollies' song..." Of course, as a math nerd and computer programmer who also has an extensive background in the brain/mind areas responsible for subconscious learning and accessing creative ideas, I completely agree that fuzzy copyright awards are a killer to song writers. I also happen to have a spreadsheet with all of the known musical scales (at the time I did the research - See it here if you're so inclined! ). I think what those two guys did (ESPECIALLY considering that one is a lawyer, really the only people getting rich off of these lawsuits) is awesome! Can you even imagine the alternative? It would become like the newer passwords: "Your melody must contain one key from a major scale, one key from a minor scale, a sharp note, a flat note, and must be at least 12 notes long..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Interesting. Watched the complete thing. Makes me glad that I don't write "songs" to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 57 minutes ago, synkrotron said: Interesting. Watched the complete thing. Makes me glad that I don't write "songs" to be honest. Hope they made a back up of that Hard Drive 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User 905133 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, InstrEd said: Hope they made a back up of that Hard Drive I think its at github along with the code (if you program in RUST). Can't wait until they do progressions. How many tunes can you think of based off the same 10-20 basic standard progressions? How about copyrighting key modulations? cadences? They may have opened a tremendous legal loophole. wormhole. ear-wormhole. ? Edited February 29, 2020 by User 905133 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 37 minutes ago, User 905133 said: I think its at github along with the code (if you program in RUST). Can't wait until they do progressions. How many tunes can you think of based off the same 10-20 basic standard progressions? How about copyrighting key modulations? cadences? They may have opened a tremendous legal loophole. wormhole. ear-wormhole. ? OR... They may be closing them! It's pretty simple to program what you're referring to and then, Voila! Everything goes to the Public Domain. (Or they get sued for every single song that falls into the "already been done" category! ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 I guess I should be happy that my talent level for song righting is well nonexistent ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, InstrEd said: I guess I should be happy that my talent level for song righting is well nonexistent ? Which means that anything you create will make you a target for the pop stars! (Since their talent level must be pretty low based on what I've heard! ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, craigb said: Which means that anything you create will make you a target for the pop stars! (Since their talent level must be pretty low based on what I've heard! ?) Now I won't be able to sleep at night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhanson Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Pretty much a mute point when there is no money in music anyway. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartabartfast Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 So the best case interpretation for someone charged with infringement is that the claim that all melodies (permutations of notes) already existed prior to their first rendering to physical media, and therefore no melody copyright can be enforced. A similar proof could be applied for any conceivable arrangement, pattern of rhythm, chord progression etc. The permutations increase enormously if note duration or simultaneously sounding notes are included, but the principle is the same. It follows that "music" cannot be protected from copying, and that a requirement to pay any royalty for any song would also be unenforceable. Note that this argument vitiates any existing copyrights prior to the exercise discussed in the video and makes all the spaces green. From the point of view of the author of a "new" melody, he will need to depend on copyrights that cover his lyrics (if the song is not an instrumental) or the actual phonorecord that he makes of his own performance of the song. Anyone who hears or is otherwise able to access his musical "creation" will be free to do with it as he likes without restriction or payment unless he enters into a contract to pay for something he can get for free. So a superstar can copy a nobody's music (in fact he can copy everybody's music) and profit from it without regard to where he obtained it. That leaves little incentive for composers who are not primarily performers or poets. Of course if all possible music is already a "fact" that is inherent in the mathematical reduction of notes, putting the so far undiscovered melodies into the public domain has no effect, since the argument is that music is not subject to copyright at all--just as you cannot copyright the numbers that you put in a table of logarithms. Another issue raised by the computer generated result is whether the operation of an obvious algorithm to generate the so far undiscovered melodies meets the requirement for originality needed to obtain copyright for each of the generated results. Will the law recognize the distinction between a human created melody and an identical melody generated by an algorithm? If so, then presumably the red spaces represent infringement of copyrighted material by the presenter, and the green spaces do not protect anything when they are put in the public domain, since the "author"/computer has no copyright to transfer or license to the world. at large. It is pretty clear that the presentation is not meant to be anything except a reductio ad absurdum for a real problem in copyright practice that results in the opposite result from that intended by the law. Instead of encouraging production of new music by securing to the author a limited monopoly on the rewards from exploitation of his work, it is inhibiting the creation of new songs by anyone else. Moving the testing of facts, (is the song original, was it a copy of something the new author had access to, is the claimed infringement of a valid copyright) to an initial evidentiary hearing, could significantly reduce the legal fees for both parties in a dispute, as the presenter suggests, but is that really so beneficial in solving the problem? Would it not encourage more lawsuits, since the plaintiff would also have less to lose by initiating litigation against the alleged infringer. In practice, for all but the wealthiest of songwriters, the damage is already done at the cease and desist letter. In fact it is done at the point of even imagining that you might receive one, a lesson that this Ted Talk clearly teaches. Would you be willing and financially able to face Taylor Swift's lawyers in court, even if you knew you would be liable for only tens of thousands of dollars instead of hundreds of thousands just in legal costs? It would make more sense to limit the payout to the plaintiff by requiring that he prove the amount he actually lost in income from his original work from the infringement, rather than assessing a statutory award, or supporting claims of lost income from a license that was not paid for. How many fewer records did the Chiffons sell because John Lennon "unconsciously" infringed their work? Instead the law asks how much more could they have made in licensing fees if John had paid them for it. Of course that would encourage piracy by largely immunizing the infringer from paying at all in many cases, but is that such a different outcome from the argument that no license need ever be obtained because there is nothing original anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigb Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Props for the first use of the word "vitiates" that THIS forum (and probably most others) has ever seen! ?? Slartabartfast's IQ > Kanye's IQ*2 ? (And, yes, I know he meant to say George Harrison and not John Lennon. I'm guessing that was a straight brain-dump without any proof-reading! ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sprouse Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, michaelhanson said: Pretty much a mute point when there is no money in music anyway. Sad but true. songs have become an advertisement for a live performance. That's the only way they make money. The good news is baby boomers love live music. Edited March 1, 2020 by David Sprouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) . Kenny Edited March 1, 2020 by kennywtelejazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Kenny, are you okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennywtelejazz Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, synkrotron said: Kenny, are you okay? Yeah , I' m OK ... Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) . Edited March 1, 2020 by synkrotron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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