Marcello

I agree with him, maybe I'm starting to understand now, basically I should work on the mix rather than fixing this on the master. I should manage to increase the volume of the instruments, like the drums which are peaking, without increasing the DBs. For instance I placed a limiter on the drums bus, and I increased the threshold and reduced the gain, result: the drums sounds louder but didn't increase in DBs. But still for me the master is too low, so is there any other plugin I can use for this purpose? Craig suggested EQ automation, any other? like a saturator maybe? a gain plugin?

Ok thanks for the suggestions. SO basically I think I have to work on the mix rather than the master trying to use some tools to increase the volume of the drums that's causing the peaks without actually increasing the DBs of the track. I have used a limiter on my drums bus, but still, is there any other plugin I can use for this purpose? Like a saturator maybe?

The thing is, I'm using a reference track from Mogwai, now I have downloaded a FLAC version of the song, I suppose is the high quality one almost like a WAV. I compared the volume of this FLAC song with the one on their Spotify, it's exactly the same bloody volume, which is quite high (-6 LUFS integrated), so someone is taking a ***** me here, unless SPotify allows you to pay extra to have -6 LUFS instead of -14

Hi guys I still have a doubt to clarify. There is a part of my song where the drums are more quiet and then an explosive part where they hit hard. Since the drums were causing some peaks in the Master (hence I had to change the Master limiter Threshold resulting in the song not being as loud as my reference track but way less), mostly kick and snare, I placed a limiter on the drums bus in the mix. Now what happened is that the volume of the snare is a bit lower than before in the explosive part and is sitting back in the mix, is not anymore slammed as it was. Also basically in the quiet part of the song, the snare remained the same volume so quite ok for me, but in the explosive part is actually lower in volume compared to the quiet part!!! This because the limiter is attenuating the snare transient in the explosive part while keeping it normal in the quiet part, result: a lower volume of the snare in the explosive part which is not good. Raising the snare volume or increasing the compression won't change much because the limiter is stopping it from peaking. So I don't know what to do here, if I don't put a limiter on my drums bus my overall volume of the master will not be as loud as my reference track because if I raise the Master Limiter Threshold down to increase the volume the drums transients will cause a gain reduction over 4 or 5 db or even more! From my understanding in order to have a Loud Master without clipping and distorting, I should place limiters in the mix busses like drums or bass for instance so that the mix will sound louder but maintaining headroom for the master, correct? The problem is that if I use the limiter too much in the drums bus it results in what I just explained, so basically it mess up the song dynamic limiting the snare for instance where it should be slammed and not limiting it where is less slammed, so the snare gets low where is shouldn't be. It's like a snake biting its tail. Do I really have to choose between having an enough loud master (same volume lever as most of the songs) but having the snare sitting back in the mix, or having it slammed but the overall song volume is very much less loud compared to the songs out there?

Thanks Will. I think I improved it a bit but I still have an issue. There is a part of my song where the drums are more quiet and then an explosive part where it hits hard. Since the drums were causing some peaks in the master, mostly kick and snare, I placed a limiter on the drums bus in the mix. Now what happened is that the volume of the snare is a bit lower than before and is sitting back in the mix, is not anymore slammed as it was. Also basically in the quiet part of the song, the snare remained the same volume so quite ok for me, but in the explosive part is actually lower in volume compared to the quiet part!!! This because the limiter is attenuating the snare transient in the explosive part while keeping it normal in the quiet part, result: a lower volume of the snare in the explosive part which is not good. Raising the snare volume or increasing the compression won't change much because the limiter is stopping it from peaking. So I don't know what to do here, if I don't put a limiter my overall volume of the master will not be as loud as my reference track because if I raise the Master Limiter Threshold down to increase the volume the transients will cause a gain reduction over 4 or 5 db! From my understanding in order to have a Loud Master without clipping and distorting, I should place limiters in the mix busses like drums or bass for instance so that the mix will sound louder but maintaining headroom for the master, correct? The problem is that if I use the limiter too much in the drums bus it results in what I just explained, so basically it mess up the song dynamic limiting the snare for instance where it should be slammed and not limiting it where is less slammed, so the snare gets low where is shouldn't be. It's like a snake biting its tail.

I agree! indeed I fixed some things in the mix, can you just check last time if I somehow improved the master or is still squashed and harsh?? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S8k5HucMEfrYd7YWw1I8SybC9Yptioim/view?usp=sharing The problem I had was that I was trying to push the threshold down to increase the overall volume, but the kick, snare and also some cymbals they were causing a big gain reduction, so the transients of those were not helping to raise the overall volume. SO in the mix I placed a limiter on the drums bus, and I tried to balance, I had to find a compromise because the more I was limiting the drums the more the snare disappeared compared to the rest, so I increase the snare volume and compression. Now I have less peaks caused by the kick and snare but still there are if I try to bring the overall volume to match my reference track. SO I understand I should maybe compress more the drums, or maybe use parallel compression on the master but I'm afraid to compress it too much, I'm still not too confident with compression in general

Allright!

I agree with you, I'm not a very professional mixing engineer, I'm quite DIY. ANyway I have realized a couple of problems were in the mix indeed, I exported the mix not leaving enough headroom for the master, so I lowered the mix bus faders and on the drums bus I placed a limiter, which worked pretty well to reduce peaks, even if now the snare is not as loud as it was previously and is sitting a bit back in the mix. So now the threshold in the master can be raised until -9/-10 dbs without having too much gain reduction, still slightly less loud then my reference track. If I understand well, the track i s squashed when there is too much gain reduction right? I should keep the gain reduction around -2 db roughly correct?

Thanks, consider drums are midi programmed drums, and I only used a compressor for those to make them punchy, now I placed a limiter on them cause the snare was causing peaks in the master when I was trying to make the song loud by lowering the threshold, and still is, even if now the snare sounds less powerful and the peaks are slightly better. About the guitars and the bass, I didn't compress them at all, I have used an amp sim plugin. Neither the master, I didn't compress it but I have placed a limiter, probably though I pushed the limiter too low to make it sound louder but indeed sounds squashed. So I think I understood the matter here, my mix was too loud and I didn't leave enough DBs for the master. Now I'm trying to use limiters on drums to make the mix loud without clipping and leaving some headroom for the master.

ok I see but looking at the reference track waveform I'm using the distorted part looks like that, it's a chunky wave that looks the samme all the time, different is for the quiet part. On the other hand though, I don't want the listener having to stand up to turn down the volume on his stereo once the explosive part starts, i think there shouldn't even be too much dynamics otherwise you force the listener to constantly change the volume on his speakers, smartphone, etc. This is the Waveform of the reference track I'm using, check it out, is it dynamic for you?

With dynamic you mean difference between clean and distorted part in terms of volume?

Indeed. It stays where I put it but I can see the clipping in the wave form, it's like this first then if I increase the theshold to raise the volume because like this is too low, this is what happens (it's mostly kick, snare i think causing those peaks), is this normal??? I think this means it's getting harsh and distorted right? check out the reference track I'm using, does it sound harsh ? I'm trying to bring it to the same level of volume but mine is fatiguing not to get distorted. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lB4jC6wVFkZNgK4BpLlRnYZ6yfHUdqld/view?usp=sharing

mm ok, do you mean the mix might be too loud? SHould I export the mix with lower volume? COnsider my mix was around -6db

I noticed that the master I did is squashed, In the limiter I can see that when the drums kick in its’ getting squashed and distorted. Might be that I should place a limiter or a compressor on the drums track in the mix before the master? To attenuate the drums transients so that then in the master I can raise the overall volume without getting distorted? this is what’s happening in the master limiter

Thanks for the tips. I might do 2 versions a louder one at -6 lufs for cd, vinyl, and another one at -14 lufs for spotify. I will experiment by placing a limiter on the drums track. do you recommend a free limiter plugin that also shows you the waveform?

Thing is, this is a snake that bite its tail, the limiter will turn down the volume, at least that'swhat happens when i put down the threshold fader, , so of course it won't be pushed and sqashed, it wont sound loud at all, so if i place a limiter on the drums it will turn down drums volume, so I will have to rebalance the other instruments accordingly. am i wrong ? my goal is not to turn the volume down but maintain it loud without getting squashed and distorted

isn't it too sqashed?

ok so basically I should put a limiter on the drums track as well? I didn't put any limiter on my tracks! I know is not really recommended to place limiters on limiters everywhere.

Ah and by the way it is at -6 LUFS, but the thing is also the reference tracks I'm using are at -6 LUFS, and I downloaded the -flac format version (high def) of the songs so that's how it should be mastered on their albums! The more I dig in the more I'm getting confused to be honest. I know that I should keep the track at -14 LUFS, but if I do (using Lean Threshold) my track sounds incredibly low! Much more then the reference track I'm using. At the same time if I measure the reference tracks they are not at -14 but at -6 LUFS! So what's wrong with this??

Thanks! So maybe I should high pass only the bass in the mix? I can actually hear the kick pretty ok from my speakers and headphones. What do you mean with squashed? too compressed? too high in volume and gets distorted? That might be too high, the problem I'm having is that basically when I drag the Limiter Threshold down to raise the volume, I can see that when the drums and bass starts, I see the True Peak and trashold line (in blue) doing some up and downs, I have set the volume at the same audible level of my reference track but despite this if I use the "learn threshold button" to stay at -14 LUFS as recommended for Spotify, it will move the thrashold at -2.7 db! it sounds incredibly low! comparing it with the reference track you can hear a huge difference in volume!! If I set the "Learn Thrashold" button this is the situation on my limiter: Too freaking low! So if I move down the thrashold bar to increase the volume, the situation will be like this, So my question is how do I keep a high volume without all that gain coming out??:

This is the compressor This is the limiter

Hi guys! I know you might have already listened to some master tests I did, but after some time working with Ozone9 I think I have reached a decent master now, what do you think about it? Please tell me if for you is too compressed or needs some compression, if the EQ sounds ok to you, and how's the dynamic and the separation of the instruments, the stereo field etc.. I know the volume is pretty high, I did it as it would be for a CD/Vinyl and not for streaming websites, I might make another version with less LUFS for Spotify and stuff, for now I'm interested about the audio quality. Here's the link, please notice the first part is more quiet then at the end it explodes with distorted guitars. https://drive.google.com/file/d/115FzjRXH4Hl-t63LxQv5ZdHnecfZZN32/view?usp=sharing Thanks a lot in advance!

I confused the two faders, the one on the left is the input, the other is the output, so no left/right should be fine my bad!

Hi Guys! Every time I open and expand a new plugin in Cakewalk the others go away. How can I keep them open at the same time? I need it for visualization

ah really? why the hell the Maximizer would boost only the right and not the left??? Anyway not my case, if I bypass the Maximizer is the same. strange, is it a big difference in db? or can be left like that? If is too unbalanced, what should I do? raise that Left in Ozone, or raise the left guitar in my mix?