Starship Krupa

I guess I found a second wind ?. It's all in good fun. Perhaps I twigged that you were an okay bloke who could take in new information. ? So. Since you mention concerns about the quality of the product going forward, there's an odd thing about software quality, and it's one of the reasons I've been so stalwart about defending BandLab's licensing Cakewalk as freeware. 20 years ago I was an in-demand software QA engineer, worked at some of the biggies (Adobe/Macromedia, Berkeley Systems, Informix). One of the biggest reasons that I left the field is that I came to the insight that there is an inherent disincentive to quality in shrinkwrap software (which means the kind Sonar was, stuff bought by regular consumers). Back in my day it was sort of an "elephant in the room." Nowadays books and articles have been written about it, and I hope at least that companies know that they need to be aware of it and try to safeguard against it. The big problem is that what sells licenses, and this includes new licenses and upgrades, is new features. Protest all you want otherwise, but that is the truth, we all, and rightly so, in my opinion, consider bug fixes something that we shouldn't have to pay for, at least not the cost of what the usual shrinkwrap upgrade goes for. It's part of why companies are trying to go to a subscription licensing model: once a product gets to a certain point of maturity, having to grub for licenses by coming up with a dozen attractive whiz-bang features every 6 months can become unsustainable. It may be that the market becomes saturated, it may be that there are only so many features that can be added, whatever. But that's getting ahead of things. For the sake of our model, let's look at "coding" as a black box that we pour money into and get software out of. And coding bug fixes costs the same as programming new features. Now if we switch our Coding black box over to bug fixes, it's the same as turning it off, because bug fixes don't make us money. However, even turned off, we're still pouring money into it. We're still paying the programmers and all of the other infrastructure that supports them. So bug fixes cost money! From the point of view of short sighted managers, and short sighted managers are unfortunately everywhere, they're even bad! If you fix the software that people already have, they won't want to buy the new version! And in defense of management choices, how many of us can say, if presented with a choice between the company surviving (and supporting the user base and the families of the employees, shareholders, etc.) and squashing a few bugs, what the "high road" would be? I observed the effects of this directly, in my teams. My "producers," that is, the managers in charge of each title, got bonuses for shipping the title on time. "On time" was more critical in those days when software was sold via physical media. It would be introduced at an important trade show and have to be on the shelves at the big stores the next day. What that meant, effectively, was that if I found a heinous crash bug 24 hours before we were supposed to go to manufacturing, sure, I'd be a studmuffin hero among the QA team, but up the chain the thanks would get less and less hearty. So I'd be the pariah for being good at my job. The better I was at my job, the more money I cost the company, because I switched the Coding Black Box over to fixing bugs. Who wants to cost a boss you like and are trying to please a $5000 bonus? Now here we are, with our case of Sonar. A venerable shrinkwrap program's company was dissolved and the program itself sold off. Some of the former staff were hired back to continue work on the code, and the program reissued under a different name and licensing scheme. The parent company has a diversified portfolio in the music field, including instruments and an online DAW/musical social media site. Cakewalk is positioned to continue as an updated version of Sonar, as well as function as an offline front end to the musical social media site. The company also has freeware DAW's for iOS and Android that function as front ends to the site. (everyone knows this, right? BandLab already had two freeware DAW's in the marketplace before they put out Cakewalk) What does this mean for the quality of the software going forward? For a single copy of Sonar, Cakewalk was paid hundreds of dollars, which went to pay programmers, QA engineers like I used to be, people to administer the beta program, artist relations, endorsements, power lunches with Microsoft insiders, etc. That was an incentive to put out a quality product. Nobody would buy it if it wasn't any good, right? Now anyone can download the whole thing, and BandLab gets diddly squat. Revenue is zero whether anyone downloads it or not. Where is the incentive to improve it or fix bugs or add features or do anything at all to it? There's no threat of failure if it stinks, no reward for success if it's great. There's neither carrot nor stick, so what makes the donkey do anything? Okay, remember our black box, "Coding?" It's smaller now, but more efficient. The new owners only hired back a small percentage of the old company's staff, and I suspect programming is done in home office(s). They don't have to throw as much money into the box because the infrastructure is shared, smaller, etc. Support is web only, no phones. There is no sales staff, etc. Fewer licensing fees to bundling partners. On and on, the costs that were once involved in making the old program are much reduced. The new company is diversified and has deeper pockets than the former owners. As freeware, the program no longer has to sit up and beg for new license fees. There are no license fees to beg for. That means we can do whatever we want with the black box! In my experience, programmers love being given the chance to go through their code and fix bugs. They tend to be picky and focused about their work in the first place, and who likes having something they made out there in the world with obvious flaws in it? It would be like a mix engineer shipping a track with a big plosive pop in the vocal and not being allowed to fix it and having to listen to it over and over. Noel and the other programmers may be exceptions to this, but probably not. This goes for optimizing as well. Just like us, they look at it and think "I could do that so much better if I could take another pass at it." Well, who's got the keys to the black box? And a loyal user base would usually rather have the smaller features they've been begging for for the the past 3 years than some new thing that only 5% of the people who use the software are going to touch. Case in point: those note values in the Piano Roll would not sell a new license or upgrade to anyone, but they are really nice to have, and it would be a pain not to have them. The interleave indicators are another. Rename Clip. Ripple Edit button. Export Module. Plug-in Manager. Fast VST scan. All these "little" things that when added up, make Cakewalk feel like a "deluxe" version of the program I downloaded in April 2018. But added up, could you even call it Cakewalk 2.0? So there you are, Andy, that is my essay on why I think you have nothing to worry about, only things to look forward to, with a freeware licensing model. It's not something that reduces resources, which therefore reduces quality, it's something that gives the people who produce the software more freedom to make the program better, with "better" meaning what most of us would like it to mean. Faster bug fixes, features added that tend toward the useful rather than the flashy, and integration with a forward-thinking online collaboration platform. Oh, also we don't have to pay any money for it.

For those who may have been bothered by the Ripple Edit button, and if you're a good theme junkie, have been bothered, the Ripple Edit button from Tungsten looks great as a replacement for the default "Mercury" one.

Y'know, since I'm more of a rock and pop player, I probably wouldn't have caught issues with Pianissimo's sustained notes. I'll check out Mini Grand if I wind up with an extra Jackson fluttering around. Isn't ePiano something? I like Lounge Lizard well enough, but the thing that it misses that mda/Dead Duck gets right, is the "bark" when I lay into it, I guess it's the combination of the tines and the pickups getting hit too hard, it's like a slap bass. It's probably where the modeling method leaves sampling behind. As you say. That kind of thing is easier (and "cheaper" in software terms) to model than it is to sample. I don't think you could fit a multisampled Rhodes into 1M. When you look at Dead Duck's GUI version, it really illustrates how many parameters they give you control over. Dead Duck is a force for good in the world because of that huge free FX package they have, but when he released the mda stuff with the GUI's, I thought that was just wonderful, to keep them going like that. Yes, I am a casual fan of Minimogue and his other vintage synthalikes. Acoustica bundles them all into the Mixcraft package.

As soon as I saw "Acustica," my face fell. Being a connoisseur of free plug-ins (and software in general), I tried their free offerings a few years ago in Mixcraft and yow, the CPU hit was so, so not worth it. I'm not holding out much hope for the "optimize." I'm not a great fan of having to install great big install managers just to get one plug-in, and that coupled with the fact that I'm frugal when it comes to my CPU cycles, and Acustica are a "no." Also, their stuff is usually channel strips and compressors, and my DAW has channel strips built into it what whips the ass of anything else I've heard! My collection of compressors has no holes in it, either. Well, I'd welcome a faithful dbx clone.

They're all honeymoon reviews because we're in a hurry to get the $0.20 in Virtual Cash! I bought that pair of MIDI things that W.A. had on sale not too long ago and I can't friggin' get any usefulness out of them. Gave 'em both up in the 4-5 star range, though, 'cause I hadn't tried them. About this Gain Rider, I've never used one of these things. Are they a valid substitute for automation? Everyone seems to have one, Hornet has one for ten bucks I think. Melda probably has one that goes for $25 on sale that has so many features you could spend a lifetime exploring all of them.

Despite being free?? Not having to pay a licensing fee is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If there's a downside, I'm having a hard time thinking of it. Cakewalk was once payware licensed, produced by a company whose revenue stream depended on selling licenses for Sonar and its add-ons. Under that traditional, simple "we make a product, you buy it" model, the company gradually became less and less profitable to the point that it was dissolved after 30 years of being in business and has now ceased to exist. I don't know exactly what happened, but my guess would be market saturation. Looks like they tried to diversify the product line, smart move, but couldn't make it stick. Sonar, by the time it breathed its last, had developed a reputation for crashiness and instability. I'm not going to argue with anyone about this, whether you think it's fair or not. I ran the first version of CbB and I at least will attest to some accuracy of that reputation. I remember that I'd resize the main window and the Now Time marker would sort of go off on a solo career, still moving, just not anywhere near the DAW. Screen elements would get orphaned, and the whole program would lock up from doing things like deleting a plug-in. So I'd always Save before removing a plug-in or moving a clip to another lane. 30 days later, I downloaded an update that was very much improved. 60 days later I downloaded one that, as a veteran software QA engineer, knocked me on my ass. It was not only way more stable, it loaded faster and was just way zippier in general. It even introduced new features, which I thought was freaking amazing for a product that had been hauled off in the meatwagon 6 months earlier. These people had put on their ass-kicking boots and were laying waste. So you can keep your payware thing. If you think it makes for better software or better chances for a stable company, well, go ahead and think that, but recent history has shown the exact opposite on both counts when it comes to Cakewalk. I could go into why freeware actually makes for better software, but I did that at TOP and I'm tired of going over it again and again. Just use the damn thing. Don't worry about the company. If you weren't suspicious of Gibson/Cakewalk, why be suspicious of BandLab? Companies go under. Tech companies go under. Cakewalk had a 30-year ride, which is unheard of. History says that even industry leading software titles (and the companies who depend upon them for revenue) don't rule for long. Who today after all, remembers WordStar? Word Perfect? VisiCalc? Lotus 1-2-3? Netware? Eudora Mail? I wonder, is Pro Tools becoming the next Word Perfect? The program that once had a stranglehold but that got complacent, made a few too many mistakes? Really, Avid, no native VST support? At this late date? The new kids coming up, the laptop/bedroom producers, does Pro Tools have any share at all among new people coming in? Can you even run Sausage Fattener in Pro Tools? I don't think new home studio people really give much consideration to PT. I think it's considered a necessary nuisance, if you run a pro facility or want to work in one you have to have it, but most people would prefer to be working in Logic or Cakewalk or Studio One or Reaper or whatever.

Bill, if you check with your local quick print shop you might be surprised how inexpensive it is to have a PDF manual printed double side on a laser printer and then comb or spiral bound. I know this because I, too prefer hard copy. The biggest fail that electronic reading has for me is bookmarking. There's nothing that comes close to a colored Post-It sticking up from the page that has the stuff I'm interested in or want to go back to. I own high capacity laser printers with duplexers, so it's pretty much the cost of the paper for me. I can punch it for a 3-ring binder or take it over to the FedEx/Kinkos and have them bind it.

Many years ago I had to deal with Pacific Bell support as my first line ISP. Outages were few, but when they happened.... PB: Hello, how may I help you? SK: I don't have Internet connectivity. The green light on the ADSL modem is solid, and I can ping the gateway and your router, but when I try to ping anything beyond that, it times out PB: Thank you, sir. Can you tell me what operating system you have on your computer? SK: ?‍♂️ Knowing that the next 15 minutes are going to consist of this person reading from a script that will have me pretending to restart my computer again, read them the IP address settings that if they were incorrect, would not allow me to get past the gateway, then maybe repeat my pings and traceroutes, all in the hope that my call would finally get punted to someone who could check their router.

And I see you have Mixcraft, a DAW that punches above its weight class. I fret for its survival in the post CbB era. It has its place, but may be overlooked by people getting started with computer recording due to the "hey, FREE!" factor. It's my hope that once I find my way around CbB better that I can set up a "Mixcraft" template for when I want the simple life. Minus that poor Mixer view.?

Wait, what? Locking on coordinates.... (Android. Dark Matter)

Perhaps you would be more comfortable with this book of selfies by Kim Kardashian. It is not free.

There I go forgetting another thing that these threads have taught me which is: 3. Things that are available for free, like sunlight and air, are inherently of lesser utility and deserving of lesser respect than things for which one must pay money, like this book of selfies by Kim Kardashian.

A better question in February 2019, 10 months after the first release of Cakewalk by BandLab: why does this subject continue to hold such a fascination for some people, one that shows no sign of ending? Me, I think I'm done. It's like trying to explain when a 4-year-old asks why the room gets bright when you flip the light switch: no answer will ever be satisfactory. I can say that I have learned some things from these spirited discussions. For instance: 1. Nothing's ever free, and DAW software that is distributed under a freeware license will at some point extract an unspecified "payment" from those foolish enough to use it without being in a constant state of sub-clinical paranoia. You'll see. Laugh now. You won't be laughing when this unspecified bad thing eventually happens. 2. Nothing can make sense in the world except things that are within the grasp of my own personal understanding, no matter what my age, education or experience. This especially applies to software industry and online social media platform business strategies. In other words, if I don't get what they're doing, they're either doomed or up to no good. ? (or both)

Why is Google Chrome free? Why is Audacity Free? Why is MediaHuman Audio Convertor Free? Why is MusicBee Free?

Mostly I skim topics here, but sometimes I remember there's that other subforum and check to see if there's anything I can answer. I've asked one question, which was on the topic of the best laptop to buy for running Cakewalk, and it got no answers whatsoever. I figure if a fat target like that gets no answers, Q&A is probably doomed. This forum is still new, so I figure the people in charge of running it will sort it out into logical subforums as they develop. I think a good split would be for people having Issues, like installation, hangs, glitches, problems getting a controller or interface to work, stuff like that, and then a different sub for discussing Using the Program. Like how do I use the Matrix or whatever, or here's a slick way of doing something that I came up with.

Wow, that's vivid. I, too, have tried and been put off by Reaper, but for me, it was just the basic difficulty of getting started with it. It took me over 45 minutes to figure out how to arm a track for a recording. I think it's too powerful for me. The people who like it say it's really powerful and I think it has too much power for me.

Wow, @Rico Belled, nice detailed reply. I won't claim to "know my stuff" as well as you seem to, but I've tried a few VSTi's and have a couple of oddball favorites I wonder if you've tried. If you have, I'm curious to know how you liked them. My favorite Rhodes is the mda ePiano, which has recently been given a sharp GUI by Dead Duck Software and renamed DPiano-E. It's freeware and it's old, but when you lay into it it barks like a Rhodes should. It sounds just like my old Stage 73. My favorite grand is Pianissimo by Acoustica, better known for their DAW Mixcraft. It's a hybrid of modeled and sampled. Light on size and CPU, high on verisimilitude.

I was sold on DB-33 when I downloaded the demo and nailed the intro to "It's All Too Much" within minutes. For some reason, that was always my acid (tee-hee) test for Hammond organ emulations. I guess it has key click, all the trimmings.

It's convenient to do as I've done and add your system configuration to your signature so that people can see what kind of hardware you're dealing with. Or at least mention it in your first post. Processor, RAM, disk, video, etc. With things like your issue with deleting a track, you have the right idea to try it with one of the demo songs, so what happens when you delete a track from one of the demo songs? Does CbB lock up?

Gaming, gotcha. Might have done a bit of that myself back in the day....Macromedia had a (gasp) T1 in '97, and I used to crawl home at 11PM with raw red eyeballs and aching finger joints from 5 hours of Quake deathmatching. Thought that hearing the shells bouncing from one speaker to the other on my Yamahas was pretty cool. Via the same damn Realtek chip they're probably still using.... Oy, what a pain, then. I wonder if there's some Policy Editor thing that people could apply after each silly Windows 10 update that would ensure that the onboard audio was once again turned off. There has to be an easier way to go about this business. @chris.r, I heartily endorse the Windows 7 plan. If you tune it well (by that I mean turn off most of the visual fruit salad), spend $30 and put an SSD in there, you could squeeze a lot more useful life out of that system. A fresh install of Win 7 64 on an SSD system drive? Shoot, it'll feel like you got a brand new computer. And as far as Microsoft's security updates....sigh. You have to weigh how important they really are. My understanding is that you've been running an "unsupported" OS for some time now and the sky hasn't fallen. Those security updates cover every little thing that pops up, and for MS' business customers to feel safe they have to include some really obscure exploits that we individual users are not likely to ever be vulnerable to as long as we stay behind a good firewall and don't do anything stupid as far as clicking on sketchy email attachments. If you run 3rd-party anti-malware software, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Windows 8 introduced some annoying things as far as the UI went. They were really pushing for everything to resemble tablet computing I think, and made it less mouse-friendly, IMO, YMMV. I was one of the people who hated it on sight. You can switch over to something that looks more like the Windows 7 interface, I think. Some say that by the end of Windows 8, MS had ironed it out and made it less annoying, but by that time, Windows 10 was ready to go. I just leapfrogged it. Maybe it's better than 7.

Wait, I thought everybody did this. It's one of the first things I do when I get a computer, kinda like downloading my favorite browser. Disable onboard audio, download drivers for audio interface, download VLC, Firefox.... So there are audio people who leave that thing turned on in their BIOS. All this time I've been reading these posts from disgruntled audio people complaining how this or that Windows 10 update switched their HD Audio back on and thinking "wow, I wonder how Microsoft manages that?" Every so often I'd been checking my one system that I upgraded to Windows 10 to see if they had somehow circumvented the laws of physics, but no, not so far. For those of you who leave them turned on when you are going to go into Device Manager and disable it anyway, why, pray tell, leave a spurious audio interface enabled on your studio computer? Do some BIOses not allow you to disable them at a hardware level?

According to what M posted (kinda James Bond, isn't it?), support@cakewalk.com should work. Dang, 1000's of support tickets. In one way that's actually great news, in another....whoa. (I just hope that very few of them are people wanting help with Sonar X2) Have we passed the test here on the new forum? Can we get a link from www.cakewalk.com? Maybe we can take some of the load off. The link from the Help menu in Cakewalk is pretty fab.?

Do these performances take advantage of the ability of exhibitors to stay after hours? 'cause the cavernous reverb sounds like you used Hall C. ? I wonder if someone has an "Anaheim Convention Center Hall C" impulse I can download for REMatrix. I just looked on the NAMM Show 2019 map, and ?! For those less familiar with the layout, to say that BandLab's booth was in a "prime spot" is an understatement. It's the first one you would encounter as you come in the main entrance toward the Marriott end, the Marriott being the hotel closest to the Convention Center, and also the location of Yamaha's displays and a major food court. Quite a coup to secure that spot.

Awesome use of the cavernous Anaheim Convention Center reverb!

Thanks for the tip on Dragonfly, TheSteven. I must check it out. A freeware favorite of mine is Orilriver, which takes turns with BReverb and TrueVerb on my reverb bus. It has all the controls I want on an algorithmic reverb, including high and low cut.