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Rejoice Rejoice Rejoice !!!

John K

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Okay, where wuz we…Karma and ownership… Craig, if you do ever find a good Google search explanation for karma, let me know. I have never found one. And thanks guys, I'm only in this for the thread count anyway. Let it roll.

Best understood with help of analogies where needed. Unfortunately some long groundwork required that only a true heathen could love.

There was discussion about involution (Sainc’ara) and evolution (Pratisainc’ara). Involution begins with pure consciousness and ends with a rock. Pre 3D space mental projection requires 5 bands of degradation before we even hit space itself. Once space collapses over the brink, there are 5 more levels of deterioration to get to the rock. At the interface, the crudest part of mind collapses into a 3D particulate structure that is the most refined essence of the physical universe. The spatial layers are a bit hard to understand because their existence is part pure physics and part psychology and perception. These “fundamental factors” (tattvas) deal with sensory perception. Atoms and subatomic particulate fields will exist in the absence of any human to witness them, but the act of our witnesship separates off 5 envelopes to deal with the transfer of sense data from the external environment to mind. Other life forms may have more or less of these partitions as they see the world in different ways and thus less or more impact on the nature of what is.

For a solid particle to exist, there has to be an intact structure on all 10 gradients for the particle to stabilize in space. Disrupt anything more interior would result in chaos.

We had talked about physical disruption (jad’asphota), concept of which is necessary for any understanding about karma.

Everything in the universe around us is vibrational. Outside space, the ectoplasmic mental structures of the layer in contact with space (Kamamaya kos’a), and the more interior Manomaya kos’a, repository and book keeper of an entire life’s experience, are two dimensional. Much like when we go to a movie and see the semblance of 3D space on a flat 2D screen. Condensative pressure (Prakr’ti) on Kamamaya kos’a over a cosmic domain causes the collapse of the stressed 2D configuration into a ball having actual length, width, and depth. Result is the “etheron”, particle of space. We have no equivalent term in science for a few hundred years yet.

Once 3D over the brink transmutation is achieved, the universe slams the doors shut almost completely on any regression back into mind with potential  loss of balanced interior seeking vectors. (See Jyotishvarii’s discussion on this. The girl rocks.)  All kinds of hell can break lose in the universe. Space is immune to the jad’asphota effect since it is backed up against the wall and nowhere to go. Anything more established, gravitation down in more dense and organized particulate frelds is continually struggling to get free from the condensed state and does succeed for awhile in the conflict until being grabbed again with the effort to create rocks. Example of God’s fuk up not being able to keep things in order, but you got to give Her an A for effort. Not many of us could pull this off.

We discussed that the ignition of primordial life is a nearly infinite impossibility, but with an infinite number of karmas at the inanimate level, the key to escape from 3D space is bound to happen. And it does. Rarely, but here and there out in the universe it does. A colloidal particle has gotten through the gates and is now alive. The event pulverizes a smallest element of physical matter back over the brink of space to outside space and unit mind is created as a vehicle for the long long road ahead.

The dynamics of all supporting matrices inside and outside space are critically altered once life begins. Backlash, reactive momentum digs into the heart of the subtle universe.

Take a more highly evolved life form that has been around the block a few times, like a bacteria. Genetic and metabolic machinery cranking away, throwing the middle finger at involutionary force that says, you shall be a rock. Bacteria says, fork you, I’m on my way back home.

Taking a break, but tried to lay some groundwork. Should be able to make the argument as to what happens in the progression toward karmic ownership. Why a rock gets off free but a human does not.  Unfortunately, the dreaded subject of reincarnation should come into this. We did this for some insane reason on the old forum and it was met with, can we say less than love and respect. Don’t want to create that cesspool of reaction and anger again, so any explanation is crippled. I’ll partially tie this together without mentioning the “R” word, and I don’t mean Reaper DAW.


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My lack of punctuation to answer previous valid concerns revolves around a 10 year old Levono laptop I am typing from now and sorry if it inflicted grief on anyone The period key crapped out on me years ago  I get perhaps a period strike out of a thousand that works  The computer still is great otherwise and has many of my older but still useful graphic programs that can no longer be authorized if I switch  Does everything I need to do for but the period key

John, I do not entirely know where you are going with this but as if building a house one brick at a time  I sort of understand what you are leading to though  Please continue without reservation  In the defunct forum, I did see the incredible discussion about reincarnation and the ignorant animal level response you got

There is always progress from crude to the subtle The moderators here have been kind to allow this discussion to continue, so let it all hang out

Likely no one here knows anything about reincarnation  I know because of having started on the ascent very young and thus precluded the shutoff of memory all of us have access to  It is way more difficult to remember and less important now in older age  What I did there and then is more of a distraction than the task here and now

I recognized from the vibe of your post that you know about this first hand  Not some philosophical crap argument but direct experience  So join my “club”

All the opinions about reincarnation that were posted and likely to fire storm in the future are worth less than a dead rat’s ass

Either it is or it is not  Verification depends upon a certain level of subtle cognition, ability to process unconscious data outside the periphery of the idiots arguing for yes or no  They do not have the slightest clue

If you need to include a reference to reincarnation to bring your explanation full circle, bring it on   Let any others that need do their 2001 Space Odyssey diarrhea blast,  bring it on as well  There is as much room  and love for all  In my culture, hyenas  barking at the heels of a lion  Please continue  Were we at chapter three?

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6 hours ago, Jyotishvarii said:

My lack of punctuation to answer previous valid concerns revolves around a 10 year old Levono laptop I am typing from now and sorry if it inflicted grief on anyone The period key crapped out on me years ago  I get perhaps a period strike out of a thousand that works  The computer still is great otherwise and has many of my older but still useful graphic programs that can no longer be authorized if I switch  Does everything I need to do for but the period key

Excellent, thanks. I was wondering if it was something as simple as that :D

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11 hours ago, Grem said:

How much did that cost? : )

So far the inability to shut my eyes without seeing horrors the like of which I had previously thought to be unimaginable. I may never be able to sleep again.

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7 hours ago, paulo said:

So far the inability to shut my eyes without seeing horrors the like of which I had previously thought to be unimaginable. I may never be able to sleep again.

Excellent!  More studio time! 👍😆


(Of course, it may change your chosen genre(s) towards a darker setting though!  LOL.)

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17 hours ago, Jyotishvarii said:

My lack of punctuation to answer previous valid concerns revolves around a 10 year old Levono laptop I am typing from now and sorry if it inflicted grief on anyone The period key crapped out on me years ago  I get perhaps a period strike out of a thousand that works  The computer still is great otherwise and has many of my older but still useful graphic programs that can no longer be authorized if I switch  Does everything I need to do for but the period key

The keyboard of most Lenovo laptops can be easily replaced.

(Just completed a T430, i7, 16GB, 256GB mSATA, 1TB fast HDD complete rebuild. New screen too.)

There are usually one or two set screws that hold it in place located in the little hatch on the underside.

A good, used keyboard can bought from a quality supplier on eBay for a few pounds.

Undo the set screw(s), turn the right way up, slide the keyboard back to release the little lugs that hold it in place, then lift it a little to reveal the plug and cable.

Gently pull out the plug, and set the old keyboard aside.

Move the replacement to the correct position and plug the cable in, then locate the back of the keyboard under the bracket and press the front into place.

Turn the laptop over and replace the set screw(s). Replace the little cover.

Job done!

Edited by JohnG
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27 minutes ago, InstrEd said:

My next laptop will be a Thinkpad Brand!

Not a bad choice. Just upgraded my wife's T410 from 3GB to 8.

Took 5 minutes. Didn't even have to unplug the keyboard. Turned it 90 degrees took out the old 2GB module and snapped in the new 4GB.

Flipped the laptop, took out the 1GB SODIMM and snapped in the new 4GB.

Switch on and ... BANG!

No, it just worked.

Edited by JohnG
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Seriously, check out the Thinkpad range. I'm glad I did.

I picked up a used T430, i7 a coupla weeks back for £245. (A condition, almost looked like new.)

Spent a bit over a hundred on RAM, mSATA SSD, Samsung 1600x900 LCD screen replacement, backlit keyboard, 1TB 7200rpm HDD,  USB 3.0 docking bay. All used.

Plus one brand new genuine 9 cell battery.

It flies.

Oh! Did I mention a set of wings?

Edited by JohnG
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Thank you for your help and advice with my laptop  I have a couple programs like Ultimate FX and the real color version of Matisse for anti aliased calligraphy I would hate to lose  I don't have the installation 3.5 floppies any more or the serial numbers to reinstall  External USB 3.5 drive was a necessity of the time  Now a paper weight

Computer guy local says he may be able to blow out debris under the pad or clean with a solvent, some sort of big enclosure for all the keys if I understand correctly

Thank you also for not trashing the outcast likes of me and brother John  He said you guys got to go light on me to not scare me off  Don't want to scare John off either but think he is of a tougher brand of metal and here for the duration regardless

The feeling of this new forum does seem a lot more open minded and receptive  Pray that it remains that way

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Yes, please continue with this explanation.  I am as well having trouble putting all the marbles together, but studying my backside off to understand and catch up. It is obvious you are laying a foundation and going somewhere with this that will tie up the ends.

One thing has helped me a lot in your last post. You did bullet points to the old language, references in parenthesis or quotation.

My instructor gave me a copy of "Electronic Edition". Hundreds of books and articles about the Ananda Marga system. Where was any of this when I was 10 years old. The installation software has a search function to see where any of the terms are referenced. As long as I can spell it right, one word has vast explanation. This is so valuable to me. Please continue to include an old language reference to the concept so I can chase it down.

God bless you for what you have given to me. God bless you for what you are trying to give to others.



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Thanks guys. Voyager, could you check something. Electronic Edition is the definitive peak, end point of any education available to carbon infests in the three worlds. The disc is defective in the book on plants and animals. I had to get the hard copy to supplement since only a portion of one discourse was retrievable from the entire book. They are refining as fast as new translations are available and fixing the references. Can you bring this document up?

Karma and ownership then…

Said that an inpossible probability event decimates a portion of physical substance, and this becomes a small 2D segment of objectified mind in the new life form. Something seems to have disappeared that can’t be accounted for with weights and measurements. The small blip outside space takes on a different property than a purely inanimate form. Inanimate objects, same as in living structures have to incur discreet envelopes of everything from Origin down the scale of crudity to the focus of the physical structure in order to exist, but the living objectified mind creates an interior seeking stress not present in that which has not life. In even higher evolved plants and animals, this objective clay takes on a larger two dimensional predominance and constitutes what molds into the movie screen of our sense data streaming in from space. The ancient heathens called the crudest stratum of mind the “Kamamaya kos’a” or “desire body” since it is intimate contact to both receive sense data from space and transmit motor response back to the physical capsule.

In the two vibratory structures of mind, the condensive “operative principle” (Prakr’ti) maintains a straightforward stranglehold on anything physical non living. Vibratory crudity, once true vibration is established is impressed further in the process by creating energy waves that are of a shorter wavelength and higher amplitude. The Kamamaya kos’a of a living entity is continually fighting the system trying to regain subtlety, pushing back wavelengths to a state of lower frequency and lower amplitude. Trying to flat line anything vibrating so there is no distortion in the cosmos. Think of struggling to paddle upstream against a current.


Vibration of things and substance does not exist deeper than “Manomaya kos’a” which we experience a glimpse of when we dream. Non vibrational content of our ancient record requiring an emerging faculty to be aware of the activity and deep subtlety is why we black out in deep sleep. We remember nothing of the vast arena of our being and the intense work going on to get us ready for the next day’s waking assault. In that state of vacuity, three levels of unconscious mind are active with central consciousness witnessing the work being done.

Once life is ignited, the only mode of forward impetus initially is physical clash. The colloid floating in a sea somewhere being banged by the waves, heat of a sun, freeze of a night, effort to absorb life giving liquid methane. The objectified mind grows in expanse and receptive power by physical sensation. Problem is that there is no intelligence associated with the microbe. No feeling of “I”.  It is here where the already established cosmic mentation fills in for awhile to manage the missing components. The fledgling is guided entirely by what we recognize as instinct.

Clash upon clash and the physical and objectified mental structure eclipses itself and a personal repository of experience is enabled in a most primitive form. Manomaya kos’a of the old yogis. In humans, this structure is quite developed and contains the memory and categorization of every experience we have had in this life. Under the direction of more subtle portions of mind later evolved, this layer has the ability to organize and connect experiences. It is the basis of our rational thought. It contains for instance the memory of every cup we drank out of. Because of the staging power, we can pick up a cup we have never seen and drink from it without having to learn the process from start.

Under hypnosis, a secondary agent causes the crude vibes of the conscious Kamamaya kos’a to flat line for a short time. Cognition can then recognize the contents of the more subtle container and the person can tell who they sat next to in third grade and what they were wearing or had for lunch whereas the physical chemical traces of "cerebral memory" are long washed out. Unfortunately a whole other area of diatribe best left to blow in the wind.

For the evolving entity on the return path, there are now two compartments of mind that are owned although without sense of thought or existence. Instinct still running survival choices. If you were to ask, how are you, there would be nothing inside to answer yet. Individual ownership of “karma” is not possible although things are starting to get together to eventually take responsibility for choices and actions.

Taking a break.


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Hey John,

Long time no hear from and are you are still among us?

I shared this and the discussions with my instructor and we talked over the phone for longer than he would have wanted me to burn up his time. He said that the dimension thing you are saying is a novel way of looking at all of this and he will study further and keep an eye on the discussion to learn a thing or two from a veteran. This is a brownie point that an Acharya teacher says you have something to add to his understanding of this. I knew that you have got moves like Jagger.

The starting of two and three dimensions feels like it is backward though. Help me out here. It would seem like the beginning point would have so many more dimensions and then the last crudification to our universe would reduce to just 3 dimensions.  How come we are getting cruder and getting more dimensions?  On one hand, we are losing grace. On the other hand we are picking up expressions not known to God. Something is not right about all of this.

I know you have a rational answer, only it is outside my understanding currently, and YES, I am studying everything I can read and assimilate. Please keep the old language terms in your communication so I can search extended explanations. I’m trying to keep up and make for lost time.

For your information, the meditation practice is about as close to real hell as hell can be. Our mythology never dreamed of this. This shit is brutal. If I am not processing a burn out night of dreams and nightmares, my attempts to deal with the wake world are being burned and blocked at every turn. I try to see or do something and the evolving inner voice says no you can’t do this anymore. You warned that change from the things that are comfortable is deadly to get beyond.

Sometimes I want to wring your neck for what you have done to me and ask you what it would be like for you to walk a mile in my current ravaged shoes. Then I calm down a bit and realize that you already have. Hang in there with me yet.

I am not giving this up until wherever it leads me. At times I still wonder where you and where this Acharya person that taught me came from.


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Hey Voyager,

Yeah, got some stuff on the dimension things that are cool and can direct you to specific articles, but you (we) got a greater problem right now, as in what you are going through. And accept all blame for the torture you are experiencing. It actually gives me joy that you are being trashed so soon (duck and run…). When you go up in a firestorm of glory, we can look back and see if it was worth it. For reference, I did walk in your shoes up to the brink of insanity until knowledge exploded in a blaze. A state of virgin purity, energy and clarity, the ultimate gem hidden and unknown that we all possess in potential. I am passing the torch to you to discover your source and get to Eternity while there is still life breath in you. Can't pull this off too late when they got you tossed into the cremation pit as a failed experiment.

Realize that in old times, an aspirant to Knowledge was some precocious kid in his teens. If he/she was made of the right stuff, was accepted for training and began the first 40 years of the journey. First 40 years was a cleansing and attitude adjustment trial. Active social service, vegetarian state, hard observances to get ready for the ride ahead.

If the aspirant survived 40 years of really hard prep work, then the next several years were devoted to the “asanas”, the stretching exercises that are hit and miss in the spandex circuit and in ignorance called yoga.

These exercises were individualized to balance secretions from the endocrine glands responsible for emotional and cognitive response so that the mind could achieve a state of semi equipoise to face the hard task of what was coming next.

Then the good stuff, science of introspection to seek our point of creation.

The old heathens took off like a bat out of hell after decades of preparation. Even then there were still struggles and difficulties.

Times have changed. I can’t demand someone to do aggressive homework for 50 years before the key to sanctuary is given. This day and age, the full blast massacre is given in the raw if the instructor feels that there is a chance of the seeker surviving the experience. Without the decades of prep however, the transformation toward liberation is severely traumatic. Don’t have to explain this to you.

What brought you here is what the ancient heathens called “Samvit Shakti”, means a sudden realization to the state of things, realization in pain that you are dead meat headed toward death and no one around you has an answer or a clue.

This energetic is born of pain and only blessed by constant questioning and trials to understand the nature of life from an ancient past. Means the pain is righteously deserved as an entry point. Dues you have paid while your other co wanderers are content to have a thumb up their ass and ponder the depths of a Seinfeld TV rerun on the way out to death.

When the student is ready, the teacher will arise. If not ready, you can travel the planet in search and will return empty. If ready, the Teacher will travel the planet to find you. You have been found.

So what you are facing is seen in retrospect as four stages of struggle. I have no knowledge of the fourth but trying my best to extract myself from the deep claws of ignorance. Have been bounced around for a wild ride with the first three.

Initially, the introspective process is met with every difficulty that the universe can throw at you. You seek something good but are getting smashed in the teeth and tortured into the dirt in the process of rebirth. The drive to continue in the face of not nice experiences is an arc of this energy. Mind and body are being torn apart and mangled, but some cause makes you drive on.

After a couple years of torture, there is a shift in this dynamic. Not a new force, but if you will, a higher octave of the same masochistic drive that has destroyed everything in your life but kept you coming back for more.

Ancient heathens called the transmutation “hladinii”. Closest meaning is “bliss”.

You sit down to do the disciplined process and realize that something way cool is happening. Does not sustain for awhile, like you wake up one day and in stage two forever. Backslides you will experience, but something is reorganizing as you develop the skills of the introspective trance states.

It is here where growth becomes exponential. Understanding, grace, bliss, absorption into the causal matrix reveals what all the saints and sages have tried to tell us. We become the Truth of all the scriptures and philosophies the world has given to us. Your life will carry this beautiful perfume through every second of your waking state.

It is here up the line, 20 years or so of a valid yoga path. The danger returns in exquisite seduction.

Holy heathens called the third stage of yoga, “Ek Indria”. This translates strangely as “One Organ”.

Way too complex to even scratch the surface of this, but one organ refers to harnessing a surrounding glandular secretion or unlocking the gene brake on a chemical associated with a psychic center under latency. A field, a plexus surrounding a mundane glandular center, like the pancreas, thyroid in the throat, prostate, pituitary or pineal axis. Others.

Manifestation is one of the numerous “siddhis” or occult powers when the chemicals start to kick in. Be it subjective, telepathies extended mental abilities, clairvoyancies of different types. Be it objective, levitation, telekinetic moving of, or changing structural integrities. Radical cool experience, ability. Wait til I show the dudes at the party this. I’m going to get so many girls when they see me levitate or bend a spoon.

This is the most seductive third phase of yoga, because the paranormal stuff starts to happen before the individual ego has been bleached clean. Karma stuff, we got ourselves into the painful condition we are experiencing because of normal dirt level activities. Actions perpetrated from a more subtle field of intent have a more far reaching payback.

They used to say that you can travel thru India, stop at a village in the outback. There will be a yogi there that can perform a miracle for you for a few rupees fee. You will be mind blown and inspired. Travel around for several month, come back to the same village and you can still pay a few rupees to have the local mystic perform a miracle for you, but it will not be the same guy. Retribution has taken out a fallen angel who got blinded and screwed up a chance to get free.

When the paranormal stuff starts to happen, take this as a sign that you are progressing, but throw them away because it is not your goal.

Forth stage, I have no clue about, but is said to be personal merger into Infinity. Salvation, Samadhi, Nirvana by any other name. End of the journey. Goal achieved. Purity required way beyond where I am at, so still struggling.

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