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Rejoice Rejoice Rejoice !!!

John K

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Brother Grem I should be thanking you

And Geez, John (blush) Is there any way you can get my husband to buy into half your compliments  If you can do that I have an irritating  daughter-in-law I'd like you to talk to

Regarding the second physical body and an acceptable rationale to go forward with, what about this

If you do not take a bath for two weeks why don't the arm pits of our second body stink?

It is there for all to see with a little bit effort, but what is it there for? We have enough trouble with the dense structure

There, you are set up to let the scriptures flow like water over under or in between the radar

As I look at this though, I am finding an open minded community here that says go for it  I would still like some explanation on sagging female anatomy  This was always somewhat vague I will try as well not to invoke vague Sanskrit jargon if there is an English equivalent  What's your spin?

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Will be a hard sell to your family for sure. Have some thoughts on a concrete universe but was wondering...

Can you describe your impressions of the secondary physical body. I may have some answers of what it is there for.  What do you "see" ?


(uh... dealing with a mother-in-law conflict is way beyond anything I would ever want to get involved with...)

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Okay John

Our subtle second physical structure is still encased within the confines of space but has no crude physical reference

It outlines and follows the dense physical structure if we move from here to there

It extends beyond the dense focus with a clear margin perhaps less than a quarter inch thick The next band is a deep wine red color about as thick as a piece of paper  Beyond that the aura radiates several feet beyond the physical body  It is like the color of a pastel blue sky filled with turmoil and lightning strikes that respond to our level of health and vitality Depending on our interaction with things in the environment and upon the level of spiritual evolution  At one time as a child I thought everyone was aware of this

I had said being aware does not include why  So why or what does it do? This is of course after you throw some thoughts about why my breasts will sag even worse in a concrete universe devoid of cosmic "intent"

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Hey Ed, was wondering the same thing, but would submit that this crazy dialog is about something more greater than the respected sisters, till the thread gets locked for blasphemy and goes off the bottom of the bird cage. Got to make hay while the sun shines.

Jyoti, damn girl, you are for real. Second sight of the subtle physical structure was something you inherited in this life but not a gift you did not deserve without trial and sacrifice in some ancient past to get where you are now.

The secondary structure is necessary to transmit physical sense data to mind, both coming and going to actuate a physical response to the material assault we each face to survive as an isolated organism. Can maybe explain this better, but as per your request, first thoughts on why a chick's boobs will sag under a hypothetical condition of input minus output disruption .



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As much as I wanna tell why a chick’s boobs sag, wanna as well give some more info so either support or the fires of outrage are based on something tangible.

Old Cakewalk forum I was trying to get a Youtube vid posted. Was merrily waltzing around the place with a camera testing new found skills. Glanced off a wall where we have a very old and rare photo blown up into a poster. The photo was of a late dear coworker of mine. 1970’s in New Delhi, India.

Sister Jyotishvarii caught the photo because in a strange and small universe, the figure was a dear friend of her father. Jyoti, I don’t know what you knew of the guy, but the insane dialog followed.

Please correct if I screwed something up, but you were a precocious early adapter of the Self Realization Fellowship discipline founded by Paramahansa Yogananda. His Autobiography of a Yogi is about required reading for any aspirant seeking a higher ground of understanding. Her mother followed SRF and her father a more tortured path called “Ananda Marga”. Me and her late Dad were and are being mutilated into the dust by something we didn’t bargain for in the beginning.

If I interpret correctly, Jyoti was allowed to train in SRF but in addition, studied the texts of her father’s lineage. Her Dad said that there were philosophical differences that could not be reconciled and avoided these impasses in nightly candle light studies of the “Ananda Sutram”.

All crap hit the fan, and my fault to have brought it up way late in the journey back on the old forum.

In the Autobiography, Yogananda goes through grieving the death of his teacher Sri Yukteshvar. In a critical chapter of the book, Yukteshvar does a paranormal thing and appears after death to Yogananda (from the perspective of Yogananda...). In the bliss that followed, Yukteshvar explains that only the physical body is gone. After death, you are jumping around in delight on various astral planes. Best yet to come.

Ananda Marga philosophy is not as pretty. When death occurs, there is nothing that exists as a hopeful vapor dancing around in paradise. Biggest clash of this is exactly because none of this is about anything remotely dealing with religion.

In a religion, say you have two tribes on the opposite sides of a river. Tribe on the right has scriptures that you get 110 virgins after death and everyone on the left side goes to hell. Guys on the left side are down there in sack cloth and ashes over the blasphemy because you really get 130 virgins after death and everyone on the right side of the river goes to hell. The proof of the claims is beyond dispute on either side. It is written on page 32 of a local book or carved with coal on tree bark. Guys on the other side reference page 20 of their book. Drop dead and you will see.

In a direct spiritual science, there should be no contradiction no matter where it comes from if the approach is correct. I got my thoughts on how the abyss happened but don’t want to open a can of worms.

Will come back and try to resolve ladies and their sagging boobs if a few rules of equilibrium were altered. Jyoti, you will not have sagged below your knees before I can get you an answer. I won’t let you down. There is yet hope.

Love you all,


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Okay brother Grem, just hope I don't piss too many off... Hope you are staying warm in the arctic blasts.

Can offer some thoughts as to why a chick’s boobs will sag to the floor faster if cosmic “intent” were taken away from us. Miss Jyoti thinks it would not be a problem. I think it could be a problem, so just my take on this..

Trying to avoid speak in tongues stuff, but difficult because our culture and language have no equivalents. Fundamental reason is that the concepts are outside and beautifully way above our radar of “normal” experience, so they don't exist except for an occasional distorted blurb on the back page of the Enquirer. Development of advanced cognitive faculties necessary to even resonate with some of the jargon, and these gifts don’t come easy if we aren’t yet born with the capacity. Just where it is at and where we are at. Everyone is high inside. Everybody a gem beyond anything that may be chattering away on the surface even if we are unable to feel it in the struggle of every day life.

Question on Jad’asphota or even primordial life in combination with the process precluding a solid concrete universe in time.

Dismal background. Yoga swami guru stuff asserts that the universe around us is an internal projection of Creator, Source, God, Origin, Big Kahuna, whatever we wanna call It. Essence of “I” at the core undergoing complex stages of condensation until self aware consciousness is temporarily degraded to an insentient piece of gravel. The rock needed to support a multiplicity of independent reflections given a common origin. Nothing less than a solid structure could maintain independent integrity as a focus of reflection to engage in the play and orchestrate the struggle back home.

The universe has evidently been going on since infinity. Cognition degrades and enters three dimensional space and then starts the long road back. Salvation to a rock and back to Salvation.

Equilibrium in 3D space is achieved by a give and take of matter entering in all around us and the exit of matter by, and only by the metabolism of life forms. Explanation or discussion is way too much for here. The space around us is not filled solid by matter entering faster than it is exiting by the give and take of the actual design. Reference again Jyoti’s comment about an egg shaped universe. This is correct. The oval encasement is extremely vast, but not infinite. Highest saints, way beyond where I will ever get in this life describe the physical universe as a minute spec floating in an infinite support matrix of cosmic mind.

If “intent” to resurface by the unit entity (which is not there to begin with) was taken out of the equation, then would not the influx override the outflux and we would be a solid rock if not for a couple safeguards. The thought by our dear sister that a “hook” in the hypothetical process would save us all in conjunction with the process of Jad’asphota. The hook meaning that previral life forms could still develop in insane environments and go south after one grand entrance before terminal death, but still fuel the metabolic exit of physical substance. Hook because the entire arc of evolution would have bounced back enough from the clash that ignites rudimentary life to send some rocks back over the brink but not complete the full circle.

Jad’asphota has inherent imposed limitations on how far back entropy can reverse the process to make rocks. Think this may be part of the misunderstanding.

Getting late and I got to finish my last beer, get ready for volunteer work at the homeless shelter.

Will pick up with what the hell is Jad’asphota and how it ties into the mystery. Why it won’t protect any of us from anatomical sagging.

(Doing okay so far?...)

Love you all,


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Some thoughts on Jad’asphota and sagging breasts. What is it  (jad’asphota, not breasts…)

Swami guru philosophy yoga stuff and the like contends our Origin is infinite. Not because our tape measure hit the end of the spring but because Source is outside the bearing of dimensional confines.

The ancient heathens also said that our Origin is eternal. Not because our clock ran out of batteries but because Origin is outside the confines of a clock. In both cases, we cannot measure something that is beyond measurement.

Through a complex sequence of operations, primordial Cognition allows Itself to be taken for a ride down a gradient of condensation with new attributes being gained, but others lost in each step of degradation. End point of the involutionary arc is with the compression of cognition into solid matter, having no idea any more that it is cognition. Just a rock.

Dimensions, length, width, depth are slowly devolved in turn as proximity to Truth gets more obscured.

Yoga stuff contends that the cosmos, observed and hidden is an internal projection, dream if you will to Creator. For the manifest life form, there is an internal and external environment (duh…).

Cutoff point, inside versus outside is space. Hard line more secure than Trump’s wall. It took eons of time to took to start setting up our physical environment. Vibratory substance, “ectoplasm” outside but adjacent to the 3D bearing rolled over on itself in the clash of more crowded real estate. First particle of space was formed in the collapse. Current science has no word or concept associated. They will up the line. Means that at one time in an incalculable past, the physical universe came into being and was smaller than a theoretical dot. You couldn’t move around too much, but up and sideways and forward was established. Then a second etheron was condensed over the brink. Universe was twice as big. Then a third and so on until there was finally some breathing room. The crudest faction of mind had become the most subtle element of the expanding physical strata.

Space is under condensative pressure where a new envelope of collapse occurs and we have particulate fields devolving new properties. Gravitational waves and the life energy fields (prana'h) for planet earth life forms are within this bandwidth. This is where our second physical structure is (hopefully) alive and well. So it goes step by step, gradient by gradient until an insentient rock puts an end to the party. Process says to stop because there ain’t nothing no cruder to be made within the confines of our local field. Give it a break.

The clash and ferment gets worse as things try to devolve into manifest physical substance.  Sometimes Origin’s “Operative Principle” (Prakr’ti) goes too balls to the wall and overshoots the innocent attempt to condense further and screws things up. Think of this like if you were trying to build a house of cards and were getting to a precarious place of balance and put a card off center and the thing collapses. Then you pick up with whatever is left and try to rebuild again. Think if you had to do this salvage effort forever.

This is where rev Jyoti mentioned the imbalance of interial seeking vectors.

Every foci of physicality is only maintained if the forces of condensation are balanced. Excess or too light the omnidirectional force, and the physical point is lost. If the focus is skewed, physical integrity is lost and the nucleus tries to expand back to Origin.

I about run out of yada yada stuff for today. Can I pick this back up tomorrow. Will try to remember where I was at.

Love you all,


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You nailed it. About embarrassed to release another tirade since you already answered the cardinal point of it all in a sentence. Since I got it rolling, still owe it to flame out with some technical stuff that I think you know means nothing in the long haul. Close the topic...

Final thoughts therefore on the thing called jad’asphota… Swami guru yoga philosophical stuff and the like. And also sagging boobs. Got to tie that in here somewhere to seek proper closure.

All regarding balance of matter and free space in our vast but not infinite physical universe. If the universe were open ended endless this would not be a problem but as Jyotishvarii said, we are living in an “egg” so to speak. Means pretty big, but could get filled up over the length of time the process of creating matter has been going on.

Physical substance is continually pouring into space. Within the encasement, rev Einstein discovered that you can change the state of something but everything is accounted for. Like if you burn a match, you could add up all the energy and byproducts after the burn to equal everything. Called it conservation of mass and energy, or something like that. E equals MC whatever it equals. Side note, rev Einstein also discovered the curved nature of space supporting the ancient heathen revelation of an egg shaped universe. Thanks Al.

In a broader sense we can apply this to life. Whether a bacteria or a Christ or anything living in between.

The E equals MC something rule still applies. There is absolute conservation of mass and energy, but a caveat that even brother Al didn’t have info about. If you could take a blade of grass and somehow measure a minute’s growth and bending toward the sun. Add up all the intake and response, E equals fails, or seems to fail because the right side of the equation comes up short. Something went somewhere, something disappeared and is unaccounted for. Where did it done go to?

This is because living metabolic machinery decimates portions of physical substance and in effect tosses it over the brink back outside of the 3D structure to become 2D vibrational energies in the crudest structure of “mind”.  Struggling against the tide to get back home. Swami guru yada yada stuff defines the adjacent 2D complex as Kamamaya kos’a, literally the “desire body”. Crudest of five mental bodies the human primate possesses over our short stay. Nowhere to be found in space. Can’t put it under a microscope because there is nothing there to see. Some medical and scientific imaging devices can however detect the resonation of mind on the crude encasement. Will just take awhile to correctly  interpret what they see and make sense out of it.

Function of the “Kamamaya” receptacle is to receive sense data, translated by the second physical body and telepathized onto the clay of the mental plate so we can internally give recognition to the constant flow of sense data. Then send it back into space. Get it recoded so we can react. Talk about the ultimate online software activation process. Fortunately quicker and way more stable than Ilok.

So a blade of grass seems to elude conservation laws but striking a match does not.

Back to the limitations of jad’asphota. Term only means blowback of forces seeking a solid focal point if God screws up. I mean, got to be one hell of a job trying to keep everything together and in order across the star fields. Condensation vectors don’t always work like planned. Too much, too little, aimed in the wrong direction. The failed attempt in inanimate systems seeks a way out, to escape the indignation and regain primordial status as non degraded consciousness.

Universal design has put a safeguard at the edge of the space/mind interface. God protecting Herself, so to speak. Ability to put failures of intent on the back burner for awhile. Everything in the manifest sphere can thus blow apart all over the place. Throw outrageous parties, but space limits any retraction further. If this were not the case, we would be in turmoil. Chunks of space would be vanishing maybe with anything occupying the area.

Jad’asphota of the inanimate is only available for strata cruder than space. Space fabric can’t retract as an inanimate substance. Got nowhere to go or escape to. Already backed up against an iron clad wall with (fortunately) no way out.

Jad’asphota is supposedly most evident in collapsing stars where all hell breaks loose.

It is happening all around and inside us on atomic and molecular levels as part of the play. Can explain more, but not going to slit my wrists if nobody is interested.

So my opinion for sister Jyoti’s concern. Jad’asphota has no force to liberate physicality back into causal realms. Without the exit path of metabolism in living entities all across the galaxies, solid matter would build up until we would be encased in cement.

The biggest ramification, most important result of all of this is…

Yes, a chicks tits would definitely sag prematurely.

Thread not locked yet, so can move on about the function of our second physical body.


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Yes thank you John This took a lot of literary effort to answer my dumb questions but I have a grip on what you have explained

I was unaware that jadasphota was restricted to aireal factor to solid factor so that a steady state of things could not be reached by material disintegration alone  In addition the exit route of matter is incremental in higher evolved organisms as you graciously clarified my understanding  One minute of the Buddha contemplating Reality is not the same as one minute in the life of a fly drooling over a pile of feces That is why without reincarnation cycles void of universal intent, rudimentary life forms created in the clash could not keep up with the influx of matter If this were the case I would be seeking an iron bra  Did I get this right?

Regarding Einstein I am sure you are aware that the egg shaped universe was known to the mystics thousands of years ago  Einstein "discovering" the arc of the universe is like Columbus discovering America  The whole concept and practice of valid yoga is about on the same platform  It will take a few rock stars and celebrities and maybe a few regarded politicians to become involved before it is accepted in this blind culture  Once they give it the green light, they can claim we "discovered" it and knew it all along  Then yoga will become mainstream

Somewhere up the line can you give an example of jadasphota happening on what you call atomic and molecular levels  Am I about to disintegrate? I am aware of the example of collapsing star vortexes, but inside our bodies????

More within my idle curiosity is the function of our double, our second physical body  It is there for anyone with the "eyes" to see but what does it do and what is it there for  Original question about the second sheath is why its armpits don't stink  This is safe so waiting for your thoughts

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Jyoti, Grem, Thanks guys…

Not up to date on latest med imaging devices. Been a retired vegetable for going on three years. You kinda lose track of things and where they are at.

They did have an imaging format that showed locations of pain. Before, the dude begging for narcotics was cast off as a stoned drug seeker, addict. Modern imaging of bioelectric fields as far as we can do showed the location of pain and gave it a more real argument from the standpoint of the person experiencing pain.

Old school ignorant me, and was thinking mainly of Kirlean photography. Absolute fascinating history. More cool than cool. Allah, don’t get me started on this. Please do a web search to open the doors as to what this means. Even the most hard core cannibal atheist can search on the phantom leaf effect and be inspired to take one finger out of a nostril for a brief moment.

Jad’asphota does exist on the microcosmic level. Even in collapsing black holes, the progress and laws still apply to the microcosm in a more gentle unobserved environment.

An example would be out of many a chlorophyll molecule inside a green plant. Kinship to plant life and our common origin as we split off the evolutionary tree is blatantly apparent. Swap out an iron atom for a magnesium atom and we are brothers and sisters in the blood that flows through our veins.

The complex chlorophyll structure is armed to accept a single particle of light, photon thing. Closer to the core of the structure, an electron field is elevated to a higher level of energetics. The photon disappears and the electron matrix vibrates further from the controlling nucleus. Vanishing photon is example of a less dramatic crudification. Product of involution (Sainc’ara)

We can’t yet eat light. Downgrade of the stale chlorophyll molecule rots and the photon is released back. Jad’asphota in the clash and cohesions blowing the electron structure back stream against pressure trying to make rocks.

In the crude physical body of the modern human ape we still got turmoil going on to live and breathe even though it is not apparent on the surface.

On to why the armpits of the second physical body don’t stink.


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Yes Craig. Not exact but a visual representation of what is going on in real time. What is missed in the idea of a photo is the constant change going on. Picture of an "aura" is obsolete as soon as the image is rendered.

Color Kirlean photographs are a surrogate and can't be interpreted directly as to what the colors mean. The hi voltage, low amperage flash rips through color photo medium are due to a lightening force disturbance that momentarily ionizes atmospheric and normally stable nitrogen N2 structure. Tempest in a tea pot.  Microsecond re equilibration dumps photons in the purple and ultraviolet spectrum. Purple stuff within the range of human eye sight is captured as coloration but is not diagnostic as to what is really happening.

Had the honor many years ago to be in a lab trying to photograph auras. Attempt was to give evidence of what was there to our latent capacity of second sight. Bring it to the attention of our fellow travelers. Mainly did black and white imaging because it was devoid of collapsing air artifacts and was way more easy to deal with.


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About the second body and why the armpits don’t stink.

Sister Jyotishvarii described the appearance and wonders what the fork is it doing there. As if we don’t have enough troubles keeping the dense body together.

Unfortunately, this could take several sections and degrade into speak in tongues stuff, but I hope some will find interest and get inspired to explore deeper.

Jeez, where to start on this. I would ask Jyoti to dive in and help me out as well, especially since you started all of this. It’s all your fault.

So where is it. It resides in what the ancient heathens called aerial factor. Same strata as gravitational waves. It is a fabric, particulate in nature but as such has no weight or “rest mass”. Therefore transactions of the things it has to metabolize happen at light speed. Way more efficient than USB 2.0 or even Firewire as a connection from the physical universe to that which is outside the physical universe. Think of it as an interface and processing stage between mind and the dense physical structure. Point is that even though the second body is extremely subtle, it is still physical. It still maintains bearing within three dimensional space.

The human entity has seven bodies and pure consciousness at the core. Cognition and 5 of our bodies are outside space, peering into dense activity processed by the crude body and the subtle energy body. We are all the ultimate ET’s.

Recognition of the second body is one of the first of lower clairvoyancies realized in the ascent for one executing a real yoga process. Can take a couple years or more of intense practice before things start to get beautifully weird. Outside the realm of perception for the spandex yoga club circuit.

The aspirant begins to realize a subtle lightness and mental peace, and realizes he or she can see an energetic blue outline of their body even if the eyes are closed, sometimes concomitant with a more dim recognition of the corresponding fields around other objects in close proximity. Perception is because of the meeting of two factors. The intensification of energy in the second body by the augmentation process making it brighter, and development of higher senses activated in the area of the pituitary gland, pineal gland and surrounding regions.

I tried to explain how jad’asphota reactivity can disrupt everything from our second pranic structure down to the dense body, and as well in things inanimate, but that space is a hard stop. You can’t bust space back to mind through non living clash.

Exit of matter from physical space is hard earned, but does happen so Jyoti doesn’t have to get an iron bra.

Ignition of a life form is virtually impossible. The universe preserves and jealously guards this highest gift, but it does originate through the inanimate clash of particles and energies. It is about infinitely impossible but given the about infinity of events, life is bound to happen. Often on a planetary system, like ours, the initial life colloid gets a good chance to prosper and diversify. It is not that new life is not happening with a new exit key, but the new comer on the block tends to get eaten by the dominant genetic line and thus no chance to develop.

On good ol planet earth, the key was broken quite a long time ago. There may have been other keys, but the one we all owe thanks to was an alignment of 10 distortions in the gravitational field. In that impossible nano nano second, a small portion of physical matter disintegrated over the brink of space to fuel the rudimentary structure of mind. Thus was our origin.

The pranic structure, second body with the original 10 elements or colorations at the aerial interface is common to all life on earth from a virus to a human. Only the function is more complex with higher evolved units.

Takin a break but will move this forward to something that makes sense (I hope…).


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Re: "From the fishes of the air to the fowls of the sea."

Um! Sorry to be an old pedant but isn't the plural of fish, "fish", and of fowl, "fowl"?? 🙄

But ... "When referring to more than one species of fish, especially in a scientific context, you can use fishes as the plural."

Or was illiteracy the idea of da fred?

(Newbie to coffee (not becan).)

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