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Midi assignment problem.

I have two different .cwp songs using Band Lab’s Cakewalk (BLC-latest update as of 12/3/2019), but I am achieving different results with each song when trying to use an external midi sampler (EMU-Virtuoso 2000.) Both songs are on the same computer using the same BLC software. The Midi Preference settings for both songs are shown in the attached photos, where the 2495 Audiophile card (Delta AP Midi) is included and routed to Emu's Virtuoso sampler, which is assigned to Channel 1.  See  midiTrack27.png, midiTrack28.png and midiTrack5.png.  The settings are identical for both songs.

I can’t remember how I configured the first .cwp song, the one that works perfectly and created with an earlier version of Sonar --  what small, obscure button I pushed, what small menu I unchecked/checked. In the first song, the one created in an earlier version of Sonar, the midi output from BLC to my 2496 Audiophile card (Delta AP MIDI) in Win 10 (using the 24-bit version of the Win 7 driver), assigns Channel 1 to the legacy sampler (EMU’s Virtuoso 2000). The Virtuoso hardware is assigned to Channel 1 via the Preferences menu shown in MidiTrack5.png.

The Virtuoso hardware comes with an instrument definition file, which BLC uses to categorize the hundreds of different samples in the Virtuoso hardware via a series of dropdown menus in the Track View, i.e. patches and banks, as shown in midiTrack21.png thru midiTrack22, 23 and 24.png

 Everything in this first song works just as anticipated, and operates just as it did in an earlier version of Sonar on Win 7. This first song continues to perform flawlessly in BLC. But that second song, the one I just recently created in BLC...

The second song (.cwp file), with all the same parameters and menu settings as above, does not show the same series of drop-down menus in the Track View. See the comparison of the drop-down tracks for the first song in midiTrack8a.png and the second song in midiTrack2a.png.

What magic button did I fail to push to make the Midi Track output menus of this second song stop proliferating as in the first song, so that Channel 1 becomes assigned to the Virtuoso hardware? The Input drop-down menus of both songs are identical: None (checked). The first midi Output menus for both songs are identical and read: Delta AP Midi (checked). But that’s where the similarity ends. In the second song, there is no further proliferation of the Output menus which would allow me to designate Channel 1 as going to the Virtuoso sampler.  

In the second song, the one not working correctly, I can see that the BLC midi output reaches the Virtuoso hardware. There’s a midi input light on the hardware that blinks with each midi note that arrives, and it’s blinking correctly. And for some reason it is locked onto a piano sample by default, and I’m unable to change that assignment.

In the second song, under the Insert menu, a selection of the Bank/Patch Change menu shows Output 1 and Channel 1, Bank Select Method set to "Normal," nothing in the Bank slot, and an Acoustic Grand Piano selected in the Patch slot. I can change the Bank slot to one of the Virtuoso Banks, click Okay, but it won’t hold this new setting. If you come back to the same menu, it has reset itself.

The Virtuoso hardware uses the “Normal” bank selection method, and this selection appears in all the subsequent menus and settings in BLC.

The Add Instrument menu under the Insert Menu only shows the Cakewalk TTS-1 software and does not allow me to alter that selection.

There are a series of detailed instructions on midi assignments at BLC’s Cakewalk Documentation website starting at www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=3&help=0x200B8, which I’ve read and re-read. No luck.

Other than cloning the first song, eliminating everything but the midi track each time I want to assign midi to this Virtuoso sampler, what are my options? What am I missing? Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

midiTrack27.png

midiTrack28.png

midiTrack5.png

midiTrack21.png

midiTrack22.png

midiTrack23.png

midiTrack24.png

midiTrack8a.png

midiTrack2a.png

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4 answers to this question

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18 hours ago, Sam Stalos said:

In the second song, under the Insert menu, a selection of the Bank/Patch Change menu shows Output 1 and Channel 1, Bank Select Method set to "Normal," nothing in the Bank slot, and an Acoustic Grand Piano selected in the Patch slot. I can change the Bank slot to one of the Virtuoso Banks, click Okay, but it won’t hold this new setting. If you come back to the same menu, it has reset itself.

I'm not fully understanding this description.  When setting up a MIDI track for a hardware synth, there are no options in the Insert menu. And there's no 'Okay' when selecting  Banks and Patches in a MIDI track header.  Are you saying that after making a selection in the Bank widget of the MIDI track that it still shows 'None'?

I take it the screenshots are from the project that works as expected...?

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What ROMs for you have installed? Based on the screen shots, it looks like you have the Holy Grail ROM. If so, it looks to me like the Instrument Definition is set up correctly to have Cakewalk switch to the ROM's presets.   [E-MU P2k: Holy Grail (8192)] .

Do you also have ORCH1 and ORCH2 installed in the Virtuoso 2000 ROMpler?  Are there any others installed?

It looks like you have Cakewalk set up to use the User Banks 0, 1, 2, and 3.  If those are filled with Virtuoso presets and you don't have ORCH1 and ORCH2 installed, they will produce no sound at all.

Also, what MIDI MODE are you using (in the Virtuoso) omni, poly, multi? Out of curiosity, what OS does the virtuoso have install?

As David points out, "Insert Instrument" is not for external gear.

Addendum: Also, in one of the screen shots your track "widget" filter is set to "All" and in another "Custom." If you are missing some "widgets," try changing the filter to "All."

Edited by User 905133
to add an addendum that might be relevant

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Thanks to David Baay and 905133 for responding, and thanks to 905133 for catching my mistake. Take the rest of the day off.

Everything is working fine now. The Widget Filter, eh?  When you step away from this technology for several years, the jargon fades, and I needed an expert to bring me back into the game.

If you hover the cursor over most panels/buttons/menus headings in the Track View of Cakewalk's layout, a brief description of the function of that button/menu will appear in the "Help Module" panel on the right side of Track view. But nothing appears when the cursor hovers over the Widget Filter, not that I would have understood the meaning of "All, Custom, Mix, FX or I/O." Your clarity and experience were much needed.

Thank you again.

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I used to take the "Widget Filter"** for granted. 

It's usefulness solidified for me when I used the Track Control Manager. I think taking 3 -5 minutes on two different days creating my own Track Control presets [or "Widget Filters"] when I got back into Cakewalk in the summer really helped me.  For each type of strip we can decide what "widgets" are useful to us personally. It helps me to focus by reducing visual distractions. For example my "==> MIDI" filter helps me focus when all I want to do is assign midi I/Os, banks, and/or presets. 

OK, now I can take the rest of the day off!  🙂

------------------------

** Officially, I think its called "Track Control" in the Reference Guide. "Widget" is defined as being related to StudioWare panels, though "Widget Section" is the first column in the Manager, the Reference Guide refers to "Track view controls (widgets)," "Cakewalk knob or widget," etc. The term "widget" seems to have many uses (function overloading?).  Anyhow, I think "Track Widget Filter" fits.

  image.png.11ce34c1700c1066ec7b32cfe813bdaa.png  image.png.128d568551c31f17dc34565f93172ac6.png image.png.699034e42b46bc067bf686acb17a7d0f.png

Edited by User 905133
to try to reconcile the Reference Guide's use of the word "widget" in different areas

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