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sadicus

Tempo Change Playback is Stuttering

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Not sure why this is happening but wanted to mention it in case someone else noticed the same thing.

When Tempo slows down, playback is noticeably "stuttered"

Export the file plays back as expected.

1) Also the Left Click Drag up/Down does not work in the Tempo Window the way it does in other windows.

 

Cbb_TempoChangePops.jpg

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tried 250, 500, 1024, no difference.  thanks for the idea!  Export audio plays back as expected, and it only happens when during the Tempo change it's self.

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34 minutes ago, sadicus said:

250ms is the default, I've never changed it. Is it specific to Tempo changes?

The default of 250ms is a little on the low side.....  Try increasing it.  I have mine set to 750ms.  I use tempo changes all the time in my tracks and never have stuttering.  Mind you, I am using external synths.

Do you have any tempo based delays on that Kontact instrument?

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same PC used many years Tempo Change is the only time this happens.

Project = 1 MIDI Piano Track
1 Instance of Kontakt Player 6 with Piano patch.

ASIO Sample rate 48000
24 bit 64 bit Engine on
No dithering

Audio Data record 24 / Render 32

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32 minutes ago, sadicus said:

ASIO Sample rate 48000
24 bit 64 bit Engine on
No dithering

Audio Data record 24 / Render 32

What about buffer size?  I also have never had issues with tempo changes with VSTis

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should the prepare buffer stay default 250, or leave it at 1024? I've never changed that setting before. Only buffers ever changed were ASIO depending on Playback or recording.

cbbAudio.jpg

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With MIDI prepare buffer, your mileage will vary....  I found in my case that 750 prevented issues I was having with intermittent  or hanging dropped notes.  It's purely a matter for experimentation to see what works best for you and your system.  However, there are probably many people on here who have found that 250 causes intermittent issues

Try increasing that buffer size from 128 to say 256 or even 512.  Mind you 512 might become noticeable when playing it realtine from your MIDI controller.  I have mine set to 256 and that still allows seamless real-time playback with VSTis to my ears.

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I doubt the Prepare using buffer has much to do with this. The root of the issue is having too many tempo changes. Musically, there's no value in having tempo changes at a higher frequency than notes are being played, and having that many changes will play hell with the rendering of some synths and FX. 

When drawing tempo changes, set snap to equal the smallest interval between notes events  - looks like a quarter or an eighth in this case.

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I have never in my life seen that many tempo changes happen so quickly.  I imagine I would get fluttery myself, if trying to have a band match that and all stay together, when playing live.  Yikes! :)

I would concur with @David Baay on the sheer number of these tempo changes being too costly for the engine to keep up.

I honestly don't know how to get past the amount of work Cakewalk has to do to process all of those.

The only thing I can think of even trying, would be to maybe leave the tempo at whatever it is right before the slowing down, then record everything free-form - to no click during that slowing down section, starting with whatever instrument has the steadiest number of notes in that section - track THAT one, free-form (to no click or rhythm), and then one by one track each other part, ALSO freely - trying to match the slowing down of that 1st tracked instrument.  Then, at the end of that section, have a single tempo change to set the song tempo to whatever it is supposed to be from that spot on.

I am thinking that would avoid having to have Cakewalk and your computer crunch massive amounts of calculations and alchemy, to try to achieve that slow down controlled by zillions of tempo changes.

I sure hope the above makes sense, AND hoping I am not completely ignorant of some fancy way to accomplish what you are trying to do with a couple of mouse clicks.  :)

You would likely have to insert some bizarre single measure with a strange meter, to get it all to line back up on the 1st beat of the measure at the end of the slow-down section, where that single tempo change at the final tempo starts.  Otherwise, the rest of the song would no longer line up on measure boundaries.

Bob Bone

Edited by Robert Bone
Added another thought about measure boundaries
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I don't know! I grabbed the line tool and drew a line to change the tempo, I had no idea there is anything more than that.'

When drawing tempo changes, set snap to equal the smallest interval between notes events  - looks like a quarter or an eighth in this case. Example, How to make Tempo 100 and the end tempo 45 without all the others in between?

As lo of note, The original was recorded with Sonar X1 with Tempo change, no problem.

Will you please Please explain how to do this. The Tempo window is not showing any Snap tools.

Edited by sadicus

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Global snap applies when drawing tempos with the 'Freehand' tool, but the line tool (and probably other pattern tools) do not appear to honor snap. If you don't want to draw freehand, you could use Project > Insert Series of Tempos, but that works by entering a step value for bpm rather than a duration between changes, so you have to calculate the step size which is awkward, and the biggest tempo step it allows is 1 bpm, so its still generally going to insert more changes than necessary (this is an ancient function that needs updating).

Since I record everything in real time, I'm usually coming at it from the other direction: making the timeline conform to existing tempo changes in the recording, using Set Measure/Beat At Now, so I end up with changes right at the start of each note whatever the interval is - no more and no less.

Cakewalk really needs a 'smart' tempo drawing tool that only inserts tempos at note starts, regardless of what tool you're using to draw them. In the mean time,  feehand drawing with snap enabled and then tweaking out any undesired 'roughness' in your drawing by clicking above or below the 'wayward' values (still with snap enabled so you modify existing tempos rather than drawing new ones) is probably the best option. 

 

 

 

Edited by David Baay
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ah yes afew updates, Nested folders, Color Coded Keyswitching, Updated Tempo tools...
thanks for explaining!

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