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Ralph Hope

Popping using mute tool

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Hi guys,

I'm sure this has been covered, but I'm new to DAWs and probably lack the terminology to find the answer myself - I have looked.

I'm tying to mute a bar in a clip of guitar.  No matter what I do I get a pop at the start and end of my mute.  It does the same thing if i split the track and delete the bar i need out.  I've tried checking the 'Snap to nearest audio zero crossing' option but it doesn't make any difference. 

Perhaps there is an option to put a quick fade in/out on the mute tool, but I can't find it.  Why the default behaviour is to create loud pops is beyond me though - surely that's not what the majority actually want to have happen?  Perhaps this is normal for DAWs, but as someone coming fresh to it, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Any help would be most appreciated, thanks!

Edited by Ralph Hope

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I would use Automation in a situation like this. I mean a fade in/out in theory should work fine as well, but if your receiving a pop doing a fade, Automation will probably eliminate that.

I could explain how to do that but it might be easier just watching it instead.

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Thanks, I'll check it out!  To be clear - it's a pop during a mute.  I'm just not sure why the mute doesn't auto-add a really quick 5ms fade or something.  Surely no-one likes pops?

Edited by Ralph Hope

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I've checked it out. This is seriously tedious.  I have a track with multiple track lanes for different takes and want to use different parts from different takes.  It's nightmare doing this with automation.  I think I'm done with cakewalk at this stage, there must be better software out there, that can mute parts of a track without adding sound effects.

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3 hours ago, Ralph Hope said:

I have a track with multiple track lanes for different takes and want to use different parts from different takes.  It's nightmare doing this with automation. 

You didn't mention you had multiple takes on a track in your OP. I wouldn't have recommended automation.

6 hours ago, Ralph Hope said:

I'm tying to mute a bar in a clip of guitar.  No matter what I do I get a pop at the start and end of my mute.  It does the same thing if i split the track and delete the bar i need out.  I've tried checking the 'Snap to nearest audio zero crossing' option but it doesn't make any difference. 

 

Take lanes are totally different and the fades should be applied easily and almost automatic.

What part of comping the track are you having issues with, you shouldn't need the mute tool as much as you simply promote the other clip.

Edited by Chuck E Baby

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4 hours ago, Ralph Hope said:

I have a track with multiple track lanes for different takes and want to use different parts from different takes.  It's nightmare doing this with automation.

Does the method used in this video offer any ideas that might help what you are trying to do?

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5 hours ago, Ralph Hope said:

there must be better software out there, that can mute parts of a track without adding sound effects.

Just to be clear, the pop is not being 'added'. It's the natural result of truncating a waveform where the amplitude is high. Stopping a high-amplitude signal dead at a zero-crossing will still result in a pop. The issue is not so much where in the cycle you stop the signal, but how fast the signal level is changing when you stop it.

So, if you can't avoid cutting off the signal in a high-amplitude area, you must add short fade in/out. The easiest way to make this happen automatically is to use the Comp tool in lanes to split out the section before muting it. Comp tool automatically creates a short crossfade at split points. It defaults to 5ms which will suffice for most cases, but can be adjusted : Preferences > Customization (Advanced view) > Editing > Auto Crossfade Comps. And if you're actually compiing, Comp tool also lets you mute one section and unmute the corresponding section in the parallel lane just by clicking on the one you want to hear.

Cakewalk as a deep and capable as any DAW out there; you just need to learn it.

 

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To accomplish the same scenario as David Baay describes above but  without using lanes. - After you split the section  using the  "S" key - I make sure the clip is muted by using the keyboard stroke  " Q "  ( that clip section will turn grey )  then grab the end of the active unmuted clips near the upper clip header with the mouse - the curser will change to a dbl arrow and you can very quickly pull a quick fade manually for either end of the clip to create a fade in or fade out. You can also change the clip boundary very quickly to " adjust the exact start or end time of the clip and the fade will ride along with the clip length change. It's very fast and intuitive once you done this a few times. The fade can be as long or short as you choose and it's start and ends are fully editable.

When you are happy with the results - you can move onto other changes or edits - or - after you have proofed some or all of  your changes in the edit  - simply select " BOUNCE TO CLIPS  " under the Clips Tab or right clicking the mouse - and the track will render all of your mutes and all of your fades.  The bounce to clips routine is a destructive edit  - except for Ctrl Z  which is undo. There are multiple levels of undo as well.  I primarily edit with out using comping and lanes myself - but comp lanes is the most comprehensive method to A-B your splits. 

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10 hours ago, David Baay said:

Just to be clear, the pop is not being 'added'. It's the natural result of truncating a waveform where the amplitude is high. Stopping a high-amplitude signal dead at a zero-crossing will still result in a pop. The issue is not so much where in the cycle you stop the signal, but how fast the signal level is changing when you stop it.

So, if you can't avoid cutting off the signal in a high-amplitude area, you must add short fade in/out. The easiest way to make this happen automatically is to use the Comp tool in lanes to split out the section before muting it. Comp tool automatically creates a short crossfade at split points. It defaults to 5ms which will suffice for most cases, but can be adjusted : Preferences > Customization (Advanced view) > Editing > Auto Crossfade Comps. And if you're actually compiing, Comp tool also lets you mute one section and unmute the corresponding section in the parallel lane just by clicking on the one you want to hear.

Cakewalk as a deep and capable as any DAW out there; you just need to learn it.

 

Fantastic, thanks!  That does exactly what I want. 

Seems to me like the mute tool could also have the option to add a crossfade, but fine, right tool for the right job and all that.  I'm sure it's obvious if you're experienced with DAWs and/or studio recording.  The trouble is that for the complete beginner, without the vocabulary to search for exactly the right things, these things are really hard to find things to find out on your own.  I'm sure 'comp tool with auto crossfade' in google would tell me all about it.  "mute track lanes without pop" and it's variants did not.  

Thanks again!

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Glad to help, and totally understand where you're coming from. It can be very hard to find stuff like this, so it was a good move to ask the forum. And I agree that mute tool (and normal split tool) should have an auto-fade option.

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I'd love for the Split to have an option to go to the nearest zero crossing or to add a micro fade. As it is, I snapping to the nearest zero crossing and then splitting is my answer.

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1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

I'd love for the Split to have an option to go to the nearest zero crossing

It does of you use Alt+left-click with snap to zero crossings enabled.

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