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6 minutes ago, Zo said:

Guyz what you describes is exactly the probem

Any small move , from a 0,2 eq move to a 5 mm mic move , is amplified like fraaazy with amp I don t even talking by overdrive and disto box added to the chain , add to this cabinets , mic sampling ect...

 

so unless you get the exact same sound , you can not judge to signal , period , the only thing you gonna hear is difference in tone .... or like you stated differences n higher register due to the design , i know mebrini and pa filters a lot high freq , a lot of amp sim does that , this results on what i said to a friend like a feeling of lo fi in the mix versus a real amp ...

So my point is , if you guyz fire a marshall and another marshall and just say this one is superior because you prefer the sound , it s just irrelevant , i m amazed how different a SAME amp can sound presets from presets just with smale moves ...due to what i explained before ...

So how did i made my statement : i opened each amp and did the sound i ve found the best for the song ... one is orange , one is soldano , one is fender , one is randall ect ...did a blind test and the orange came several time at first ... and when in another exemple i needed more depth to compete with for exemple with the membrini and neutal dsp (thks mainly to  their cabinetimpulses ) i succed to have even more depth with the cabinet section in amplitube ...

So at the end , i m not saying this is better than that , i m saying ´ this is no better than that ....

the fact that one amp sim leads you to a sound you label "good" faster than another , is what counts  and it has nothing to due with faithfull emulation but more with design (inrefacing and algo design ) some gain structure are linear , other are not ect ....

Even this guy reviewed a real Marshall amp, and here he says the emulation sound better than the amp, haha

 

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3 minutes ago, Zo said:

Guyz what you describes is exactly the probem

Any small move , from a 0,2 eq move to a 5 mm mic move , is amplified like fraaazy with amp I don t even talking by overdrive and disto box added to the chain , add to this cabinets , mic sampling ect...

 

so unless you get the exact same sound , you can not judge to signal , period , the only thing you gonna hear is difference in tone .... or like you stated differences n higher register due to the design , i know mebrini and pa filters a lot high freq , a lot of amp sim does that , this results on what i said to a friend like a feeling of lo fi in the mix versus a real amp ...

So my point is , if you guyz fire a marshall and another marshall and just say this one is superior because you prefer the sound , it s just irrelevant , i m amazed how different a SAME amp can sound presets from presets just with smale moves ...due to what i explained before ...

So how did i made my statement : i opened each amp and did the sound i ve found the best for the song ... one is orange , one is soldano , one is fender , one is randall ect ...did a blind test and the orange came several time at first ... and when in another exemple i needed more depth to compete with for exemple with the membrini and neutal dsp (thks mainly to  their cabinetimpulses ) i succed to have even more depth with the cabinet section in amplitube ...

So at the end , i m not saying this is better than that , i m saying ´ this is no better than that ....

the fact that one amp sim leads you to a sound you label "good" faster than another , is what counts  and it has nothing to due with faithfull emulation but more with design (inrefacing and algo design ) some gain structure are linear , other are not ect ....

This is probably the most beautiful and simple explanation I've read in a while..... While we think about which amp has a better tone (and I do agree some amps and amp sims are shitty as hell), we lose sight of a simple logical explanation to the difference in tones.... the settings and IRs make a huge difference..... 

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And I know the Nembrini is way better than any IK or whatever. That's enough for me.
If you dig more IK's more power to you. In your videos you seem to get good tones from it (using the Orange in the Overloud brothas).
On my end I am super happy finally.

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Umm, IR are super imporant, yes, but for me is equally imporant what amp emu you are using.
Nembrini takes the cake.

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Guyz sorry for the tipô , was on my ipad .... anyway you get my point ... the conclusion is that we have superbe tools didffre,ts taste adn the most important : different wayz to perceive things due to our brain (ears are only transmitting infos) 

oh yep @Carlos on one exemple the soldano in TH3 sounded crap on solo and the best in mix lol ...go figure ;)  

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11 minutes ago, Carlos said:

Even this guy reviewed a real Marshall amp, and here he says the emulation sound better than the amp, haha

 

didn't watched the video but this says it all ./...what he prefers other the real thing is the diffrence in tone , not the quality , right !!! and this diff is mic'ing , cabinet ect ....even listening to your real amp in it's cabinet vesrus amp sim in you monitor is like night and day ....

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7 hours ago, Carlos said:

And I know the Nembrini is way better than any IK or whatever.

No bass amps, no rack effects, no wah... Better is subjective. Peace! 🤗

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7 hours ago, Zo said:

sounded crap on solo and the best in mix lol ...go figure

Often the case with guitar gear. I have three points for each amp sim when testing:

1. Sits great in the mix.

2. Feels like the real thing.

3. Sounds great standalone (soloed).

In this order. Usually emulations that meet all three criterias are easy to dial in, kind of set and forget. All others require more complex processing with plugins like EQ, compressors, saturators, reverbs to work well in the mix.

Edited by Soundwise
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6 minutes ago, Soundwise said:

Often the case with guitar gear. I have three points fro each amp sim when testing:

1. Sits great in the mix.

2. Feels like the real thing.

3. Sounds great standalone (soloed).

In this order. Usually emulations that meet all three criterias are easy to dial in, kind of set and forget. All others require more complex processing with plugins like EQ, compressors, saturators, reverbs to work well in the mix.

Yup, while checking an amp sim, I look at below points - 

1. Amp behaviour (cranks like a real amp without digital artifacts)

2. Sound in a mix (with Bass and drums)

3. Ease of dial in (I use separate dial in for mix and standalone)

4. Features - Pedals, Racks, Cabs, Mics, IRs, etc.

5. GUI 

It depends on how you're using it. If you're using it in a DAW, actually points 3,4 and 5 (and to some extent pt.2) can be managed by using the multiple other plugins that we've got. But pt.1 is primarily important for any amp sim

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Strange people tend skip or underestimate  that interfacing will impact what you get from a product ... this is why th3 and thu have been slept on ( by the majority ) until slate put the light on em , not the best interface to deal with ...

ik should also think about updating the browsing thing and the interface , as well as the routing ....

i ve spent literally like 2 weeks on offtimes to make presets on bothbjust to skip the headache of variety and interfacing ...

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3 hours ago, Zo said:

i ve spent literally like 2 weeks on offtimes to make presets on bothbjust to skip the headache of variety and interfacing

When playing live guitarists usually want to have two base tones - clean and overdriven. Then two variations of each - rhythm and lead. And then some extra effects thrown in occasionally, like wah, delay, chorus, etc.

With pedals I used to do this:

1. Set the amp for a nice clean, slightly saturated, but below the breakup.

2. Use an OD/Dist pedal to get the crunchy tone.

3. Use a boost pedal to turn the above two basic tones to lead sounds.

4. Apply effects when needed.

With a nice two channel footswitchable amp - same as above except the point 2.

This setup can be emulated with  multiFX digital processors.

Now in a virtual studio environment plugins provide such a vast variety of options, it can quickly become confusing and make one dizzy. What is important is not to loose your focus. In other words - get your basic tone and stick with it. This is, probably, the main reason I decided to pay for the BST100, despite having almost every amp sim on Earth. One simple solution that doesn't distract from recording and arranging.

 

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2 hours ago, Soundwise said:

One simple solution that doesn't distract from recording and arranging.

 

Amen !

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4 hours ago, Mesh said:

SW, have you used Helix Native (your thoughts)?

I have tried it. Won't buy it unless it's $25 or less, just for effects. The workflow isn't fast or intuitive. The sound is nothing to write home about. YMMV.

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10 hours ago, Carlos said:

If you dig more IK's more power to you. In your videos you seem to get good tones from it (using the Orange in the Overloud brothas).

Whose videos? Zo got videos? 

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22 minutes ago, Christian Jones said:

Whose videos? Zo got videos? 

yES, zO HAs videos :P (very very good ones)

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1 minute ago, Christian Jones said:

And.. where they at? Where that link at? 

Hey Christian i never covered amp sim ...but this might be something i will dig in .....

 

here the link ..... we usually ppst new ones here but be sure to sub and hit the bell for you to be notified , that said , google is less efficient than Larry !!

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtqpV5UiTcxuAtR-BpW1Ihw

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23 minutes ago, Zo said:

Hey Christian i never covered amp sim ...but this might be something i will dig in .....

 

here the link ..... we usually ppst new ones here but be sure to sub and hit the bell for you to be notified , that said , google is less efficient than Larry !!

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtqpV5UiTcxuAtR-BpW1Ihw

French brotha in da house, right on. I'll peep those videos, I see a lot of cool stuff there. Carlos implied that you had a video of you playing guitar through Amplitube.. 

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11 minutes ago, Christian Jones said:

French brotha in da house, right on. I'll peep those videos, I see a lot of cool stuff there. Carlos implied that you had a video of you playing guitar through Amplitube.. 

nah it's one video i guess , i have gtr and bass tone around , i don't play but i'm no joke when it comes to those tones ....lol  being based in New Orleans back then didn't helped !!

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