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WINDOWS 10 Pro

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15 hours ago, John said:

I am a big supporter of Windows 10. I have to admit when I read about people sticking with Windows 7 because they think it is better I often think how ignorant they are. I don't say it but that is what I think. To me it is a position based on fear.  

Me, I am such an ignorant guy! 😁

On 2 computers I have run Windows 10 from the beginning, but on a new one (recording only) I decided to use Windows 7 based on my experiences with 10!!! The main reasons are:

  • the major updates of Windows 10 ...
    • brought rarely improvments for a DAW user, but more network and phone stuff
    • always changed back a lot of settings and you don´t know what
    • implemented some "features" and additional bloatware (that I hated)
    • made the system slower (except 1903 that restored a bit of the initial speed)
    • force the requirement of new hardware on and on (I am glad that I do not get older myself as fast as Windows 10 hardware!)
  • Windows 10 updates and inconveniences costed me a lot of time

The advantages of Windows 10 over 7 for a user like me are very minimal (there are a few), many things are only different, not better IMO!!!

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I took the cautious route and have a dual Windows 10 / Windows 7 boot.

While I'm using Cakewalk, I can honestly say I notice absolutely no difference to what operating system I'm using, with the  exception of dialog headers which are slightly different due to the difference in Windows themes. But everything else is identical.

Nowadays however, the only reason I ever boot into Windows 7 is to apply updates/install VST's to keep the two systems in sync. Windows 10 works so well for me, I've really got no reason to use Windows 7 any more. The only reason I keep it, is in case something went wrong with my Windows 10 install, then I can just boot into Windows 7 and continue working until I get a chance to re-image Windows 10 from a backup.

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Windows 10 is a fine mature DAW platform. 

We've got many DAW using clients running it (including professional composers/engineers/musicians).

You need to be diligent with backups (should be doing that anyway)... and it certainly helps to have the Pro version (Group Policy Editor and Registry tweaks to stop all Automatic-Updates.  Once reined-in, there's no issue at all with Win10 for DAW (or video) purposes.

 

If you want to run Thunderbolt (using "PCIe via Thunderbolt" for PCIe level performance), you have to be running Win10.

Microsoft doesn't support "PCIe via Thunderbolt" under Win7.

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Windows 10 is over ~ 4 years old, at this point.  It's pretty polished, now.  Microsoft is basically just updating the OS Apple-Style, though a twice as often - a  Tick-Tock bi-annual cycle with Feature and Polish/Stability/Hardening releases.

If they were on their previous upgrade cadence, we'd be ~1 year into Windows 11 by now.

It was rougher when it was first released.  Some of the UWP apps were missing fairly basic features, etc.  however they were already a huge improvement over the Metro apps in Windows 8.x.  Even Notepad has gotten an update!

Each update they allow you to Uninstall more of the stock apps.  "Most" can be uninstalled, now.

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Me, I am such an ignorant guy! 😁

On 2 computers I have run Windows 10 from the beginning, but on a new one (recording only) I decided to use Windows 7 based on my experiences with 10!!! The main reasons are:

  • the major updates of Windows 10 ...
    • brought rarely improvments for a DAW user, but more network and phone stuff
    • always changed back a lot of settings and you don´t know what
    • implemented some "features" and additional bloatware (that I hated)
    • made the system slower (except 1903 that restored a bit of the initial speed)
    • force the requirement of new hardware on and on (I am glad that I do not get older myself as fast as Windows 10 hardware!)
  • Windows 10 updates and inconveniences costed me a lot of time

The advantages of Windows 10 over 7 for a user like me are very minimal (there are a few), many things are only different, not better IMO!!!

  1. All platforms are doing Network and Phone Stuff.  Microsoft is years-late to that.  Apple did this in 2014.  No macOS users complain about this, and thier platform is even more chock full of this.
  2.  I've never had this happen on my PCs, and I've been using Windows 10 since Day 1.   Multiple PCs - many - not just 1. 
  3.  Features are the point of major updates.  The update in between focus on stability, hardening, and polish.  It's a Tick Tock Cycle?
    1. "Bloatware" to you are tiny apps that use no resources (as displayed), and are pretty much ignorable - not to mention, most can be uninstalled, at this point?
  4.  Completely incorrect.  Windows 10 updates have consistently removed old code and bloat, and even the install size of Windows 10 today is Gigabytes less than it was at RTM.  This isn't even close to accurate.  Performance has not gone down.
  5.  This is completely incorrect.  System requirements are the same as on release - and the same as Windows 7.  Hardware requirements are for certain features taht require newer hardware components, because Microsoft isn't going to design an OS in 2015+ for 2009's hardware ecosystem.
  6.  Problematic Windows Updates can be rolled back in 15 minutes on any PC from the settings app.  The update backs up your entire Windows installation.  It takes a couple of clicks to completely undo it, and then your PC is  in the complete state it was in before the update.  It doesn't waste much time, even when the update ends up being problematic.   Installing the update takes longer than reverting the update, usually 😛 

There have been issues with the major updates - some major.  So all you had to do was use your Windows 10 Pro 180 Day Deferment allotment to make sure you never get these updates on Day One.  Wait a few months (or the full 6 months) and let the others play guinea pig.  However, I haven't met any issues updating Day One for all of these updates.

The biggest major issue was the File Deletion Bug, but that hit mostly  insiders and the update was pulled quickly.  A lot of Insiders run those builds on production PCs, which is a big no-no.

-----

You're benefiting from a lot of things that are "better."  They are just not "in your face" things.  They're behind the scenes, under the hood.  And frankly, that's the way you ideally want it... since huge changes in UI/UX are naturally disruptive.

All Group Policy editor does is change registry entries.  Which Entries work on a Given SKU of Windows depends on that SKU.   Windows Home Edition will ignore some registry entries for policies that only work on Pro+, and Windows Pro will ignore some that only work on Enterprise or Education SKUs.

The Group Policy to disable OneDrive isn't just for the OneDrive app.  It prevents all applications from accessing OneDrive, and some applications have OneDrive integration even in the absence of the OneDrive app on your PC.  If you want to disable the OneDrive app, all you have to do is uninstall "Microsoft OneDrive" from your PC, and avoid "breaking" other apps on your PC - as that Policy Setting has nothing to do with any service running on the computer.  It just controls access to APIs used to access the OneDrive service by apps installed on the PC 😉 

There are only benefits going from 7 to 10, provided you don't hit any software/hardware compatibility snafus.

Edited by SomeGuy

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  1. Have you really read what I said?
  2. You can read a lot about that in the internet and even on this and the old Cakewalk forum! And I have noticed such config changes several times, instantly I remember 3 times reset of touch pad disabling, 2 times reset of deactivated wireless adapter, 2 times reset of registration settings and the newest one (1903): suddenly grouping of some folders by date (download...).
  3. and so on

I think it is not worth to go on argumenting for some guys that look with blue eyes at Windows 10! They will/want never believe even the most obvious issues. I am not an Apple groupie, nor a linux enthusiast, because I TRY to rate all of their advantages and disadvantages! I prefer Windows over Apple, because it means more or less free hardware development/prices and linux has never really passed the step to a competing desktop/laptop system (just used in the server market). In general, I really believe in the gain of open criticism, blue eyed loyalty led to the worst things on this world in history! But it is very modern to shut people up!!! 😥

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The biggest issue that I had with Cakewalk-on-10 was Windows Defender's realtime scan doing things like scanning my plug-ins and sample libraries and audio tracks as they were streaming from the hard drive. All of which is entirely unnecessary and was causing a serious performance hit on my system.

So I rolled up my sleeves and figured out how to configure Windows Defender on Windows 10 Home to behave as I want it to, which is to disable realtime scanning.

I've heard that you can supposedly exclude certain folders from realtime scanning, but I don't even want the engine running. I got cantankerous about it. Defender scans my system in off hours, and of course doesn't find anything because I don't click on suspicious email attachments or download and install software from sites that look suspicious to me. My anti-virus protection for the last 30 years has been common sense backed up by on demand scans.

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C'MON GUY'S stop hijacking my inquiry ... I remind all that this platform is new to me, and I posted my thoughts to get my pears who are used to this OS, to assist NOT be abusive of those who don't use WIN10PRO .. So please .... rein it in !! THAT SAID

Thanks for the heads up on an SSD ..I have just fitted a WD SSD 1TB and cloned the master drive and wow it's fast, my files and projects are on HDD which in time I will move over to SSDs,  also got to grips with what's not and what is, needed (still learning here).

I can't thank you guy's enough for your help and views (if not a little acidic in places) ... I am left thinking I should and could have moved to this OS some time ago as it really is,,, ...really IS, a better OS (at least for me) ...So for those reading this, if your thinking you might move from 7 or 8 and are unsure give it a try ...I write as a dinosaur  who  loved  7pro ... but now it seems 10pro ..... 

John is correct in saying you can delete delete the bloat or lets say apps, so as not to offend, and then if your not sure just stick a post here for help ... worked for me 👍

SPAK

 

 

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Hi everyone

Long time since the last post in this topic, but before I will create new one I will try here:

 

I just switched to Win 10 Pro and I wonder how it is nowadays with its updates? Should I be worried? Should I avoid them or gulp them with no resistance as they come?

 

Greetz!

 

https://wojciechstecyszyn.bandcamp.com/

Edited by Wojtek Stecyszyn

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If you are on the latest build, and are an admin, you can pause updates until Feb 23(I just tested). I put it off as long as possible, and I would make a backup before updating.

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46 minutes ago, hockeyjx said:

If you are on the latest build, and are an admin, you can pause updates until Feb 23(I just tested). I put it off as long as possible, and I would make a backup before updating.

Or you could simply disable the Wupdates service……….

Personally in my set up it downloads automatically, but i choose when (or not) to install. Where’s  the hassle ?

J

Edited by Jeremy Oakes

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7 hours ago, Wojtek Stecyszyn said:

Hi everyone

Long time since the last post in this topic, but before I will create new one I will try here:

I just switched to Win 10 Pro and I wonder how it is nowadays with its updates? Should I be worried? Should I avoid them or gulp them with no resistance as they come?

Greetz!

https://wojciechstecyszyn.bandcamp.com/

With Win 10 Pro you can set a few useful items in group policy editor (gpedit.msc) to prevent "early adoption" of newly released updates. :)

In summary, you can set a target Feature Update (major annual version release, i.e. 21H2 is the current one) so you will not get an entirely new Win 10 version by surprise. Secondly you can set an automatic "deferral" period for monthly quality/security updates. I tend to defer them for about 3 weeks (21 days) so Microsoft can fix any current problematic monthly updates, but I do want to stay fairly current security wise, so I don't put them off forever.

And definitely learn and make use of a regular disk image solution if you are not using one already. That way it's much easier and faster to roll back if things ever go sideways, than it is to rebuild Windows and all of your applications from scratch! Recommend Macrium Reflect Free that is perfect for home use and is very reliable!

The Windows Update policies in group policy editor that I use are:

  • Select when Quality updates are received: [Enabled, 21 days]
  • Select the target Feature Update version: [Enabled, 21H2]

I am currently updated to Win 10 Pro 21H2, and will not receive the next one until I update the policy to that effect. 21H2 is supported until June 2023.

Windows 10 Home and Pro follows the Modern Lifecycle Policy.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-home-and-pro

 

 

 

Edited by abacab
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So you guys suggest to hold them back as long as possible and install them later?

Mine is 21H1 but honestly I don't know if it's good or bad or neutral and should I do anything about it....

Still bit confused about all this, cause some people are suggesting me to keep on updating and other suggestiing to stay away from updates as far as possible.

 Btw Im using my laptop not only for music but as a regular day to day computer

Another question is should I turn off automatic updates and make Win10 ask each time before downloading? Can I leave it there as  a way to prevent ant updates ever?

Regarding disk image - I will make one right away! Thanks for advice 

 

https://wojciechstecyszyn.bandcamp.com/

 

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1 hour ago, Wojtek Stecyszyn said:

So you guys suggest to hold them back as long as possible and install them later?

Mine is 21H1 but honestly I don't know if it's good or bad or neutral and should I do anything about it....

Still bit confused about all this, cause some people are suggesting me to keep on updating and other suggestiing to stay away from updates as far as possible.

 Btw Im using my laptop not only for music but as a regular day to day computer

Another question is should I turn off automatic updates and make Win10 ask each time before downloading? Can I leave it there as  a way to prevent ant updates ever?

Regarding disk image - I will make one right away! Thanks for advice 

 

https://wojciechstecyszyn.bandcamp.com/

 

FWIW I keep all my machines up to date with all updates as soon as they come out and I rarely have issues.  I may wait a month before doing an upgrade, but I usually upgrade on at least one machine right away to check it's ok,  the go ahead with the rest.

I've had far more issues in the past trying to update an old machine which is way behind on upgrades.

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9 hours ago, Wojtek Stecyszyn said:

Btw Im using my laptop not only for music but as a regular day to day computer

Then I would recommend staying as close to up to date as you can. Some folks have dedicated DAWs, and keep them isolated from the net and updates, but those are mostly pros that cannot afford any interruptions to their productivity. My preference is to only delay monthly updates by a few weeks, and the major feature upgrades by about 6 months.

I delay the monthlies for a short period because most patch related issues are quickly identified and corrected by Microsoft in the days following release. I choose to let other users be the Day 1 "early adopter" testers. Then I tailgate when it's  "all clear".  FYI, if you let the feature version get too far behind, you will no longer receive support or updates, so avoid that. And as @msmcleod mentioned, you may run into extra issues trying to update a way out of date machine.

Since you have Windows 10 Pro, just take advantage of the group policy editor to automate your decisions for you, such as how long you may wish to delay the monthly updates. You will then get the current monthly updates offered when that period (# days) expires. You really don't want to never receive updates.

Then once a year, just set a new target version when you are ready to upgrade. If you leave the target set to your current version, you will never receive the next version. Windows is switching to an annual version upgrade (Feature Update) model from the previous semi-annual one.

Edited by abacab
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If you control when it updates, you can make a backup before you install (which considering there are usually some every month, it serves as your backup schedule).  It also gives you time to check the forum, because a bad update will spur a flurry of posts here.

I have not had any issues with only the necessary updates and not the "feature" updates.

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3 minutes ago, Wojtek Stecyszyn said:

Thank you all for your advices.

One more question.

I'm on Win 10 21H1

21H2 Just arrived at my door. Should I go for it?

 

 

Been using it 6 months now, although it only came out in November. I do testings for Microsoft on their insider programs. 

Go for it! 

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21H2 appears to be solid. Go for it!

But always back up first before upgrade!

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Slow booting is an issue with most of Windows versions. A lot of features on deck means a lot of movement from hard drive to memory. The fast startup feature helps by storing a lot of the running stuff as a memory image (think modified hibernation). As you add software, you add even more delay--almost everything has to load its own fast starter, check for updates, call home for license confirmation or get the latest ad, and all that may be happening in the background while you are watching the spinning widgets. A small ssd for the OS will definitely help. You can spend many hours trying to understand, fix, break, and fix again the various things that are trying to load, but I finally pretty much gave up, and just use hibernate (unlike earlier versions this seems to work pretty well in Win10) and restart (does a full reboot, which shut down does not if fast startup is enabled) to manage the machine.

If you are a glutton for punishment or a speed fetishist I recommend:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/autoruns

But I really believe it is a better option for most systems to just push the button and go for a cup of coffee.

Edited by slartabartfast

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