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Larry Shelby

IK Syntronik 2 Group Buy!

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New presets, it also clearly says the new wave sets so they are updated in a pretty big way.  These new wave sets did not exist in V1, so unfortunately (and I apologize that I thought also obviously) you cannot edit V1 content that has wave sets that aren't there...  I think that's completely transparent and shows you get more than people seem to think.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peter - IK Multimedia said:

New presets, it also clearly says the new wave sets so they are updated in a pretty big way.  These new wave sets did not exist in V1, so unfortunately (and I apologize that I thought also obviously) you cannot edit V1 content that has wave sets that aren't there...  I think that's completely transparent and shows you get more than people seem to think. [key words emphasized]

There is a communication concept known as bypassing.  One person (or party) "knows" what it means by the words and phrases it chooses (and the way information is presented). However, the meaning others get is different than what the person (or party) intends.   When I see words like "clearly," "obviously,"  "completely transparent," and "more than people seem to think" as used in the above, I get the impression that there has been a lack of recognition of responsibility in the miscommunication.

"We said it clearly. [Hyperbolized implication to get the point across:] Its your problem that you didn't understand what we intended by our words."

Based on what I have seen many people in various forums (not just here) are confused or have been led astray by the words (and presentation) chosen to communicate Syntronik 2 messaging.

Please recognize the importance of people who buy and use IK's products when they tell you they did not read into IK's words (and presentation) and automatically understood what was clear to those on the inside. The "obvious," "completely transparent" explanation above ("you cannot edit V1 content that has wave sets that aren't there") is a meaning that in-house people (insiders) would have by virture of their existing familiarity with the product and the way IK uses language. The way I see it from the discussions of the issues, it is not at all obvious to others who don't have that insider knowledge.

Sorry to have to say this, but the people who have been trying to get clarification are not in error by seeking clarification if that's what you are implying by "clearly," "obviously," "completely transparent," and "more than people think."

IK "knew" what they intended to mean.  However, the intended meaning to many was unclear/confusing. Consider this specific example:

image.thumb.png.39337837cca7724d12da10e1abe58973.png 

IK may have intended "Hosts previously purchased synths" and "Upgrades previously purchased synths" only to refer to what I and maybe others would call the underlying synth engine.  However, perhaps many users of Syntronik (like myself) consider the synths as products to include the instrument presets we acquired when we purchased the Syntronik synths.

Finally after almost two months of trying to get clarification, I think I have now come to understand what IK may have meant by the words as presented. 

To me this is a classic case of "bypassing:" IK meant one thing by the language and presentation above [synths = underlying synth engine only]; however, some of us considered presets to be included in the "previously purchased synths" [synths = synth products].

Communication is interactional. To some of us, it was not at all clear or obvious what IK intended to mean. So we sought clarification.

 

Edited by User 905133
typographical corrections
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Man, I really don't understand IK's way of thinking anymore.  The make some really great stuff..... but then they destroy all of it by their confusing marketing, what works with what, installation confusion, Jam Points, you name it.  Take a look at pretty much any forum.  IK is trashed for this everywhere.  They HAVE to know this!  I can only imagine them saying "Well, people still buy our stuff so nothing's broken" or "We have no idea how to reel this mess back in so let's just look away and keep putting out new stuff".  They really need to do something at this point because there's a lot of people that have moved away from the brand because they just don't want to deal with it anymore, despite how good some of their stuff is.  I just hope they can figure it out.

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For me, there are two saving graces for IK....and ONLY 2...

1.  Pete
2.  Group Buys

If not for those TWO, I'd be gone in a minute, regardless of how good the product is,
and I've walked that line MANY times!

I could go on for HOURS...but I won't.  Everybody already knows, so why repeat
myself.

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Looking at this Group Buy …

… it’s only Pete for me :)

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Posted (edited)

Pete's cool, but the Italians (IK) seem to be having difficulty keeping up with the French (Arturia) and Germans (Native Instruments)!!!

IMO, they all make great products, but there is always room for improvement in treating the loyal customers well!  :)

Edited by abacab
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One thing I should let you folks know, just in case you come across this with Syntronik 2 or Sampletank 4. 

There is an issue with the latest Sampletank4 and Syntronik 2 and pitch bend ranges.

With version 4.17 of Sampletank4 and version 2.02 of Syntronik 2, the pitch bend range results in double what you have actually dialled in.

For instance, dial in a pitch bend range of 1 semitone on the GUI, and the range it actually gives you is 2 semitones.  

This also has the net effect of not being able to get an odd number of semi tones for the pitch bend range.

This appears to only manifest on patches that use the Syntronik 2 or Sampletank4 engine.
 
I have lodged a ticket with IK Multimedia support (lodged 12 March with a couple of requests, by me, for follow up).

I have reverted to 4.16 of Sampletank4 and version 2.01 of Syntronik 2 until IK Multimedia resolve this issue.

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16 hours ago, cclarry said:

For me, there are two saving graces for IK....and ONLY 2...

1.  Pete
2.  Group Buys

If not for those TWO, I'd be gone in a minute, regardless of how good the product is,
and I've walked that line MANY times!

I could go on for HOURS...but I won't.  Everybody already knows, so why repeat
myself.

For me it's also licensing, jam points, always had great support

I haven't totally walked away from Waves either.  Bad habits = never a quick death

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Paul Young said:

For me it's also licensing, jam points, always had great support

I haven't totally walked away from Waves either.  Bad habits = never a quick death

Ditto...I still use what Waves that I have, but I'm not likely to WUP...and it'll have to be a major discount for
me to think about upgrading!

Edited by cclarry

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, cclarry said:

Ditto...I still use what Waves that I have, but I'm not likely to WUP

Same here. Ditto! :)

I have the Waves Abbey Road collection, and the H-Series, as well as the instrument collection. Plus a few one-offs that I got either for free, or for $29.  Scheps Omni Channel is killer! But I don't see adding much more Waves in the future, or upgrading WUP.

Because with all the IK stuff that I now have, such as MixBox, T-RackS 5, and Amplitube 5, don't really need many more effects!

Oh, yeah, forgot to mention that I also have the iZotope Music Production Suite. So I'm pretty well set, and it's time to be just like Bapu and collect Toontrack MIDI packs!!! 🤣

 

Edited by abacab
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2 minutes ago, abacab said:

don't really need many more effects!

 

Liar, Liar Pants on Fire 😆

 

 

Actually I have to agree that I have more then I know how to use too!  Especially after the IK Group Buy last year.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, InstrEd said:

Actually I have to agree that I have more then I know how to use too!  Especially after the IK Group Buy last year.

Ditto! :)

How many compressors and EQ's and channel strips am I realistically going to need? Seriously!

Scheps Omni is my usual go-to for the above, and the results are usually decent.

If I need a quick master, I just slap on either Ozone 9 Advanced, or IK Lurssen. Instant goodness.

For outboard FX on a synth track, I always reach for IK MixBox first.

I know, I'm lazy, and should really spend more time learning how to engineer, mix and master properly... 🙄

 

Edited by abacab
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IKM is a giant company where its only interest is to get new customers based on irresistible offers and then ambush them with different update strategies where it very skillfully makes you fall on the path of infinite updating and the customer does not fall into the loss of the old and useless instrument. Unfortunately, the clients we have a number after the back and we are no more than that, a real trade IKM by which if not upgraded, lose the product, in my case, after having bought Modo Drums and bass before the unexpected but disreputable new update IKM I desidivo not buy never ANYTHING more.

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They sure make things really confusing (to the extent that no other company comes close). Then you have to dig through forums, FAQs, explanations and experiment just to (try to) figure out their product line.

I have S2 SE and S1 deluxe with the 22 synths. For a synth that's included in S2 SE, the new presets work in edit mode, the old ones don't. Full S2 allows S1 presets in edit mode and S2 SE doesn't? What if you didn't have S1 before getting S2, would S2 still include S1 presets?  And S2 SE doesn't? Even for synths included in S2 SE?  This is getting silly. 

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1 hour ago, fitzroy said:

They sure make things really confusing (to the extent that no other company comes close). Then you have to dig through forums, FAQs, explanations and experiment just to (try to) figure out their product line.

I have S2 SE and S1 deluxe with the 22 synths. For a synth that's included in S2 SE, the new presets work in edit mode, the old ones don't. Full S2 allows S1 presets in edit mode and S2 SE doesn't? What if you didn't have S1 before getting S2, would S2 still include S1 presets?  And S2 SE doesn't? Even for synths included in S2 SE?  This is getting silly. 

This is incorrect as has already been explained earlier in the thread. Full S2 does not allow S1 presets in edit mode. Edit mode is a new feature for S2 and only works with S2 presets. Note that you can still do all the same things to S1 presets in S2 that you could do in S1, ie the instrument interface is still available for S1 presets.

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3 hours ago, Doug Rintoul said:

This is incorrect as has already been explained earlier in the thread. 

 Right.     giphy.gif

6 hours ago, fitzroy said:

Then you have to dig through forums, FAQs, explanations and experiment just to (try to) figure out their product line.

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“Every time the counter goes up by 100, you’ll be able to choose another Synth in your User Area for FREE until we reach our goal of 3,000 registered Synths.

That means you could get Syntronik 2 MAX with all 33 Syntronik Synths for the price of 1 single Synth!”

So this means we do get Syntronik 2 MAX if we hit 3000. 
 

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On 4/22/2022 at 4:27 PM, User 905133 said:

There is a communication concept known as bypassing.  One person (or party) "knows" what it means by the words and phrases it chooses (and the way information is presented). However, the meaning others get is different than what the person (or party) intends.   When I see words like "clearly," "obviously,"  "completely transparent," and "more than people seem to think" as used in the above, I get the impression that there has been a lack of recognition of responsibility in the miscommunication.

"We said it clearly. [Hyperbolized implication to get the point across:] Its your problem that you didn't understand what we intended by our words."

Based on what I have seen many people in various forums (not just here) are confused or have been led astray by the words (and presentation) chosen to communicate Syntronik 2 messaging.

Please recognize the importance of people who buy and use IK's products when they tell you they did not read into IK's words (and presentation) and automatically understood what was clear to those on the inside. The "obvious," "completely transparent" explanation above ("you cannot edit V1 content that has wave sets that aren't there") is a meaning that in-house people (insiders) would have by virture of their existing familiarity with the product and the way IK uses language. The way I see it from the discussions of the issues, it is not at all obvious to others who don't have that insider knowledge.

Sorry to have to say this, but the people who have been trying to get clarification are not in error by seeking clarification if that's what you are implying by "clearly," "obviously," "completely transparent," and "more than people think."

IK "knew" what they intended to mean.  However, the intended meaning to many was unclear/confusing. Consider this specific example:

image.thumb.png.39337837cca7724d12da10e1abe58973.png 

IK may have intended "Hosts previously purchased synths" and "Upgrades previously purchased synths" only to refer to what I and maybe others would call the underlying synth engine.  However, perhaps many users of Syntronik (like myself) consider the synths as products to include the instrument presets we acquired when we purchased the Syntronik synths.

Finally after almost two months of trying to get clarification, I think I have now come to understand what IK may have meant by the words as presented. 

To me this is a classic case of "bypassing:" IK meant one thing by the language and presentation above [synths = underlying synth engine only]; however, some of us considered presets to be included in the "previously purchased synths" [synths = synth products].

Communication is interactional. To some of us, it was not at all clear or obvious what IK intended to mean. So we sought clarification.

 

You picked that apart well but completely missed the point as I was replying directly to someone especially with the "completely transparent" phrase which was exactly what the person to whom I replied referred to, transparency.

Sorry but you seem to have taken things a bit to heart over an out-of-context understanding of my reply to someone.  I understand that you might want to take me and.or IK to task but I feel you completely missed the mark/target here as I've posted the FAQ from Erik Norlander himself which explains everything.  And the rest of the parts of the message that seem to offend you also refer to the FAQ that I've posted and to which I thought I was clear as well but I, too, can make mistakes.  In case that was missed, the FAQ is https://www.ikmultimedia.com/faq/?id=1431

Quote

I already have Syntronik Deluxe with the 22 original Synths. Why do I need to buy them again for Syntronik 2?

The Syntronik 2 version of the original 22 Synths adds new presets built using the updated Syntronik 2 engine that works with the new EDIT page, and it also adds the essential Wave Sets for each Synth that enable you to select the sound in each oscillator.

You can use the original Syntronik 1 version of these Synths with the free Syntronik 2 CS software. The presets will sound exactly the same, and you can edit the presets in the same way as in Syntronik 1. You will also have access to the new effects and step sequencer of Syntronik 2. But you will NOT be able to access the new EDIT page and use the Wave Sets since those require the updated sound content created with the Syntronik 2 engine that are only available in the Syntronik 2 versions of the Synths.

TL;DR - I think you completely misunderstood my reply, please refer to the FAQ which explains clearly and concisely.  That FAQ was the "interactional communication" you were seeking.  I now feel like I've fallen into a self-help book parody like Ricken's book in Severance.

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