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sjoens

Glitch: Clip Moving Violation When Snap Is On

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Posted (edited)

Problem: When the Snap Module is ON some clips don't move properly when trying to drag them
1. Record a clip from point zero
2. Split the clip into several pieces and move them around (moving works initially)
3. At some point none of the clips will move to the left

Why?
When selecting a clip you can see the Aim Assist line move to where the original "mother" clip started, in this case point zero.
This prevents it from moving to the left because CbB thinks it's already at point zero.

Conclusion: Apparently CbB is applying the original clip's beginning point to the cropped clip.

In the case of a clip very close to point zero, selecting it moved the Aim Assist line to point zero and displayed a faded "ghost" clip several measures to the right (Looks like it's having an out-of-clip experience). It wouldn't move. However, the ghost clip did move, but only to the right of where the real clip is. When releasing the mouse the real clip will move to where the ghost clip was.

Remedy: Bounce each clip or turn Snap module OFF! But you shouldn't have to do either.

clip-move-violation.gif.5b68ba546bff8448918c753978155bab.gif

Edited by sjoens

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think I saw this behavior just recently, and I think I solved it by changing my Snap settings. It may have been set to "By" when I wanted "To" or the value was set too high for the accuracy I wanted.

Not 100% sure about this, but I do notice that your grid there looks like it's set to a whole note, which seems kinda big for moving clips with precision.

I'd try turning off snap for a sec and then see what happens.

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Posted (edited)

Good catch. Turning Snap OFF solved it. Settings were TO and 1/64th.

But no matter the settings the result is the same behavior, so I still think it a bug. 

I've never encountered this before in the history of Sonar/CbB so it must have been recently introduced.

Edited by sjoens

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1 hour ago, sjoens said:

I've never encountered this before in the history of Sonar/CbB so it must have been recently introduced.

I guess we'll watch and see if we can get a repro condition for the devs to work with. Heaven only knows why the program would suddenly start tripping over snap settings.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2022 at 8:23 AM, sjoens said:

Problem: When the Snap Module is ON some clips don't move properly when trying to drag them
1. Record a clip from point zero
2. Split the clip into several pieces and move them around (moving works initially)
3. At some point none of the clips will move to the left

Why?
When selecting a clip you can see the Aim Assist line move to where the original "mother" clip started, in this case point zero.
This prevents it from moving to the left because CbB thinks it's already at point zero.

Conclusion: Apparently CbB is applying the original clip's beginning point to the cropped clip.

In the case of a clip very close to point zero, selecting it moved the Aim Assist line to point zero and displayed a faded "ghost" clip several measures to the right (Looks like it's having an out-of-clip experience). It wouldn't move. However, the ghost clip did move, but only to the right of where the real clip is. When releasing the mouse the real clip will move to where the ghost clip was.

Remedy: Bounce each clip or turn Snap module OFF! But you shouldn't have to do either.

clip-move-violation.gif.5b68ba546bff8448918c753978155bab.gif

Have you tried going in to preferences > snap setting and tick all the relevant boxes in there? Set your snap "To" and not "By." 

Edited by Will.

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It seems likely this is project-specific or CbB has gotten into a bad state in RAM. If it's reproducible in a new project after restarting CbB, it would help to know the exact sequence of splits and moves. I'm not able to reproduce it in general.

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David may be right.

1. Only seen this happen in one project so far.

2. Snap is always "TO" and never in 20 yrs "BY".

3. No boxes are checked in Preferences and never have been.

4. Preference settings won't create "ghost clip".

Seems over the years I've collected a book worth of unexplainable project related glitches system specific to me. They usually happen after weeks of editing and saving a project. Almost certainly a memory issue then.

I report then to see if anyone else has the same issues. If not, they goes in the book.

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6 hours ago, sjoens said:

 

3. No boxes are checked in Preferences and never have been.

 

No wonder you're crying all over the forum. 

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Posted (edited)

Check boxes aren't relevant to this case. No tears here. I don't even buy Kleenex. :D

Edited by sjoens

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, sjoens said:

Check boxes aren't relevant to this case. No tears here. I don't even buy Kleenex. :D

Lol. 🤣

On a serious note: Those boxes goes together with your snap settings and your issue. Read their titles and with what you're experiencing. 

You can also read the documentation if you do not believe me. 

If your snap is on let's say a 64th note and you change to a 16th note - every time you do a snap of on a 16th it will retain the length of the 64th snap. I've experienced this before. Since my clips are always selected in preferences > snap settings its snaps correctly everytime even if i change my snap notes constantly and readjust them. 

You can also do this for automation and others. 

Edited by Will.

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Can you explain the ghost clip? No other clips have done this.

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25 minutes ago, sjoens said:

Can you explain the ghost clip? No other clips have done this.

Well, It hard to say in your case. It depends on what you think a "ghost clip" is. 

You get routing issues where the same melody of lets say "track 10" plays through track 6 all of a sudden. I've heard users claiming that to be a "ghost clip." Others do editing on a midi clip where the clip gets automatically cut as you draw in notes and calling these layers of clips "ghost clips." 

There's automation too - a rogue node that wasn't deleted. They call these those too. 

If understanding correctly what you are describing above in the OP - I'd say yes, the daw is supposed to do that. Example you can't have a snap of a WHOLE NOTE and expect to drag the clip on ticks when the snap is on. It will jump by a whole note, 1/2 on half note, 1/4 on quarter notes - call it steps. It takes the length of the "snap to" in jumps. 

Should it be that a clip has been cropped - well, that's literally just what that means. All that information at the beginning or end you've removed by cropping that clip. You have to bounce, "commit, or render in place," (depending on what language the DAW use) to remove the information you do not need. 

Example: let's say you have a string that is a 100cm long and you fold ot in half - you not going to have a string that 50cm long just because you fold it. It will still be 100cm of string just folded (cropped) in half. You will have to cut it with a scissor to get it permanently on a 50cm length of string. 

I will demonstrate this in a video as soon as i'm done with clients projects. Why it won't move etc. I'm currently working on the Mac system in Logic. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Will. said:

Well, It hard to say in your case. It depends on what you think a "ghost clip" is. 

See picture in the OP. Click on the clip and a ghost clip appears to the right of it. The clip won't move when I move it but the ghost clips does. A TLZ moment for sure.

Edited by sjoens

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On 4/27/2022 at 7:44 AM, Will. said:

Should it be that a clip has been cropped - well, that's literally just what that means. All that information at the beginning or end you've removed by cropping that clip. You have to bounce, "commit, or render in place," (depending on what language the DAW use) to remove the information you do not need. 

Splitting does create slip-edited (a.k.a. 'cropped') clips, but all clips are virtual representations of the underlying audio file whether they've been slip-edited or not and it should not be necessary to bounce a slip-edited clip to do anything you would do a with a 'normal' clip. 

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Posted (edited)

So when you click & hold a clip, a transparent "ghost" clip appears indicating it's being moved.

The "ghost" clip should remain over the original clip until you start to move it.

In my case as soon as I click & hold the clip the "ghost" shows up in the wrong place - as shown by the cursor location in the animated gif - because - for some unexplained reason - CbB is mis-interpreting it's location and won't allow it to be moved even back to where it already is.

Bouncing the clip seemed to help as did turning Snap Module OFF, but none of those things should be necessary under "normal" conditions.

I'd call it a project/memory related glitch, not a bug.

Edited by sjoens

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