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Myriad Rocker

Head in a Basket - Constructive mix feedback welcome!

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

I listened to all 3 mixes. I would feed that 3rd mix to the birds, its toast. im hearing heavy digital overload and drop out @ 1:31.

Your comment about the third version being toast is concerning a bit.  It's the one I put the most work into at the mastering stage.  That "heavy digital overload" you're referring to at 1:31 is intentional.  It's a stutter in the guitars followed by a volume swell going back into the verse.  I cut it up manually on (I think) 1/16 note intervals and then 1/8 intervals followed by the volume swell at the end.  I certainly don't want it to sound like it's digital overload, because that's not what I intended.  As Grem said, that same effect is on all three.

7 hours ago, Grem said:

And to further add to my comments to my last post above, The first mix does lack some low end punch. However, it is the most dynamic sounding of the three. IWO, there is less compression and it plays more pleasing (if that description helps at all!! LOL)

I am fixing to listen again on my headphones.

Myriad, to be totally honest here, if I was your manager or someone in the band with some pull/influence, I'd be telling ya'll to seek some professional mix/mastering services for this. I believe that song is that good. I wanted to send this to you in a PM but you don't have that option available.

 

To my recollection, I didn't really do much to it from a mixing standpoint after the 1st version.  I think I bumped some low-mids on the guitars, bumped the bass a bit, and then most of the other work was on the mastering side.  Oh, and I removed my compressor on the master buss prior to Ozone.  In fact, I had two compressors (Slate FG Grey & Slate Stress) on the master buss prior to it hitting Ozone.  I removed those after the 1st version.

As for your comment about the mix/mastering services, I'm really trying to get good at this myself.  We have no aspirations to be "famous" or tour or land a record deal, etc.  I'm much much more interested in getting better at at writing and engineering/mixing.

I'll check on the PM thing.  Didn't know I had to enable that.

7 hours ago, Grem said:

Mix 1: It does have low end punch when I listened on my Bose headphones. If fact, I would say that's the best 'overall mix' of the three. If this one was mastered better it may be the one.

Mix 2: Not a bad mix, but I can hear that there's more compression on this mix  (or in the mastering stage?). But if you could get the compression backed off a but, this one might be a winner too. I liked the lower level stuff I can hear in this mix that wasn't as obvious as the last mix. In this mix, the part that Chuck was saying was digital clipping I am clearly hearing it is intended fx. In fact, if you gonna put it in, make it stand out more. And there is a little part right after that (sounds like a record scratch?) that's in time with the beats and that sounds good, but it's not as obvious in the first mix.

Mix 3: This really wasn't as bad a mix as I thought. But I did drop the volume down a couple of notches in the beginning, towards the middle too. That tells me the EQ ain't right. Which is a mastering thing.

I would say that your first mix may be the best shot to give to someone to master.  Also what I noticed yesterday and today (on two different listening eviroments) I can't make out what the bass player is doing. And I listened for it too. He must be following the guitars lick for lick. But I still should be able to hear the bass.

 

Can I ask if you remixed these three trks? Or did you just give different masters?

 

Mix 1:  I'll try to see what I did to get back to there.  I should have saved that state of the mix, but I didn't.  This one has differences in mixing (guitar EQ and bass EQ/level) from the other two.

Mix 2: It would definitely be on the mastering stage.  I actually removed compression on the mix like I described above.  Not sure what you mean on the record scratch.  Maybe that's the volume swell you're hearing?

Mix 3: This is the exact same mix as the one just above.  Only difference is the mastering.  Mix 2 (and Mix 1, for that matter) was a "quick" mastering job.  I spent more time on this one.

Yesterday I actually went back and lowered the level a bit on the 3rd one but I haven't re-posted it.  No change to anything but the level, though, that I recall.

Edited by Myriad Rocker

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11 minutes ago, Myriad Rocker said:

As for your comment about the mix/mastering services, I'm really trying to get good at this myself.  We have no aspirations to be "famous" or tour or land a record deal, etc.  I'm much much more interested in getting better at at writing and engineering/mixing.

 

As Rush put it "Living in the Limelight, the Universal Dream" ! : )

Maybe that's why it sounds so good, ya'll are really relaxed and not trying to prove nothing to nobody. : )

For me I love mixing. I mean I could do this everyday all day long, into the night, never go to bed..... but that ain't real!! I gotta make a living, SO I have to work. : (

I still try to mix, and I ain't half bad. But for me it's so hard to say "Yes, this is finished!" I always am listening, thinking how can I get this part to sound like this, or that. I am always hearing some little thing wrong with it. The bad thing is when I go back and listen to it after some time has past I'm like, what was I hearing? That sounds good. So I listen again and next thing I know, I got it back in the box trying to fix that little something that I am the only one hearing!!! So I haven't been able to find that balance. Or to let it go!!

 

Keep it up though, your doing a great job. Just gotta let that bass guitar stand out some more.   : )

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Posted (edited)

 

4 minutes ago, Grem said:

For me I love mixing. I mean I could do this everyday all day long, into the night, never go to bed..... but that ain't real!! I gotta make a living, SO I have to work. : (

Right there with you, man.

 

Now that I'm thinking and thinking on it, I don't know that I posted my most recent master.  Hell, I'm starting to get confused.  @Grem, check this one out.

 

Edited by Myriad Rocker

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1 hour ago, Myriad Rocker said:

check this one out.

I would call that a wrap! Let others hear it and see what they think. I listened to it over the work speakers (JVC) and my Bose headphones, both loud and at low volumes with rests in between. This one has the dynamic sound that the first one did, with more punch and low end, but I can also hear all the little details. I think I can even make out the bass player. (Is he a former guitar player?)

The little part I was talking about was I think you took the very first part of the first word of the second verse and gave it a little Ba, Ba, Ba, Ba in time with the beat. Sounds good. I like that part.

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8 minutes ago, Grem said:

I would call that a wrap! Let others hear it and see what they think. I listened to it over the work speakers (JVC) and my Bose headphones, both loud and at low volumes with rests in between. This one has the dynamic sound that the first one did, with more punch and low end, but I can also hear all the little details. I think I can even make out the bass player. (Is he a former guitar player?)

The little part I was talking about was I think you took the very first part of the first word of the second verse and gave it a little Ba, Ba, Ba, Ba in time with the beat. Sounds good. I like that part.

Finally!!  LOL

Yes, the bass player is a former guitar player.  That obvious?  😁

Oh yeah, I know what part you're talking about now.  That reminds me, I completely forgot that I went back (in this most recent one you listened to) and added more emphasis to that with an additional drum part that accents that  Ba, Ba, Ba, Ba part.  Was hoping to get that to poke out a bit more.

I'll update the original post with this as the new master.

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6 minutes ago, Myriad Rocker said:

Yes, the bass player is a former guitar player.  That obvious?  😁

 To me it is, because I have played bass (I am not a bass player!) in bands before. I can hear that he is following the guitar or kick note for note. That's why I didn't hear it before. He's really good. 

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In a way the song sounds like early Soundgarden meets Metallica, I really like the vocals good job.

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12 hours ago, Joad said:

In a way the song sounds like early Soundgarden meets Metallica, I really like the vocals good job.

I thought it was like Disturbed meets Pantera. Both bands I absolutely love.

It doesn't sound like one of their songs, it just has that flavor to it.

15 hours ago, Myriad Rocker said:

It's a stutter in the guitars followed by a volume swell going back into the verse.  I cut it up manually on (I think) 1/16 note intervals and then 1/8 intervals followed by the volume swell at the end. 

sorry I didn't hear that. It might be because its heavily compressed. Im not a fan of Ozone to be honest. I do think they make great products and a lot of people love them, for me though, I just prefer other plug ins.

When I master something, I use about 6 different plug ins on 1 bus. I believe Ozone does it all in one plug in.

I'll say it again though, awesome song man.

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Myriad, I finally got to listen to this on my studio monitors (KRK V6) and I can hear lots more detail. In fact I can hear the bass in my monitors much better. And he is playing note for note!! He's really good and tight! But what I am hearing in the bass player on my monitors is not being transferred to those other systems I was listening on. And therein lies the problem. Transfering what we hear in our studio to the outside world. It's an art, keep working at it. Just wanted to give you a heads up on it.

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5 hours ago, Grem said:

Myriad, I finally got to listen to this on my studio monitors (KRK V6) and I can hear lots more detail. In fact I can hear the bass in my monitors much better. And he is playing note for note!! He's really good and tight! But what I am hearing in the bass player on my monitors is not being transferred to those other systems I was listening on. And therein lies the problem. Transfering what we hear in our studio to the outside world. It's an art, keep working at it. Just wanted to give you a heads up on it.

Maybe I need to do some more EQ sculpting to get the bass to pop out more.  Not necessarily louder, but just carve out a spot for it to be heard.

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I think you have a powerhouse rocker going on with this song.  I listened to all mixes/masters and there is a slight difference in the lows.  The newer mixes do have a "fatter bottom" (to use a Blues term) I kinda like the first mix -- for what that is worth.  Cool vocals/harmonies.

By any regards though you have a winner of a rocker in this song. 

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43 minutes ago, freddy j said:

By any regards though you have a winner of a rocker in this song. 

Agreed. The first mix, after all the constructive criticism I have given, would sell on it's own I do believe.

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Welp...like my other one I went back and did a re-mix on AGAIN, I'm doing this one.  I changed the original post just so things stayed clean.  Am I headed in the right direction on this one?  Let me know if anything jumps out to you that needs attention.

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I like the guitar tone! 

The mix sounds good to me (though I'm no expert at mixing). Drums sound good to me. Everything sounds nice and full, and "punchy," as you put it. 

I'd like to hear this when the vox are added. Nice work. 

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So Myriad, the first example called Mix 2, is that the one form last week, or before that? Or is this a new mix too?

I'm back at work so I only have the work speakers and my headphones.

Anyway, the second mix is clearer than that first example. I can hear the bass player in this mix! All levels of the guitar are even in relation to each other.

If I were to make a suggestion, I would lower the guitars one or two db at the most. But that's only nit picking. (I like to hear the drums strong.) On the work speakers the guitars were more dominate than the drums, but listening on my hp the difference wasn't as much as on the work speakers.

Still I think you are getting better at mixing. Waiting on the next post!!

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Great song, love it!

The lower more talking vocals could be a bit louder (IYF) in my book, and also there is a loud mouthclick? at 0:28 that has to go!!!

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On 6/21/2019 at 12:57 PM, Grem said:

So Myriad, the first example called Mix 2, is that the one form last week, or before that? Or is this a new mix too?

I'm back at work so I only have the work speakers and my headphones.

Anyway, the second mix is clearer than that first example. I can hear the bass player in this mix! All levels of the guitar are even in relation to each other.

If I were to make a suggestion, I would lower the guitars one or two db at the most. But that's only nit picking. (I like to hear the drums strong.) On the work speakers the guitars were more dominate than the drums, but listening on my hp the difference wasn't as much as on the work speakers.

Still I think you are getting better at mixing. Waiting on the next post!!

That's the one from last week.  V3 is the latest that, so far, just has instrumentation.

I did lower both guitars by 1db.  That change is posted in the original post under the same V3 clip.

Thanks a bunch!

On 6/22/2019 at 1:55 AM, kloon said:

Great song, love it!

The lower more talking vocals could be a bit louder (IYF) in my book, and also there is a loud mouthclick? at 0:28 that has to go!!!

Appreciate the compliment.  I couldn't find the "mouthclick" you were talking about at 0:28 specifically.  That's before the vox come in.  However, I moved the volume envelope closer to when the first transient hits there.  I haven't posted a V3 mix with vocals yet, so that's coming.  We'll see if I got that click out when I post up the latest.

 

Thanks guys!  I've been out of town for a few days but I'm back, so back to work it is!

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After getting sidetracked with work and other things, I got some work done on this one.  New mix posted in the original post.  Updated my comments there as well!

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at 1:32 sounds like it went off the rails a little, other then that it's an awesome stereo mix.

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3 hours ago, Joad said:

at 1:32 sounds like it went off the rails a little, other then that it's an awesome stereo mix.

Can you clarify what you mean a bit?

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