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Larry Shelby

XLN Black Friday Sale

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3 hours ago, Barrie said:

$41.97 at JRRShop with discount code GROUP.

that is tempting. when you take into account what inflation has done to the dollar in last 24 months. RC-20 is sort of like a hipper version of MixBox.. for chill and D&B.

Edited by telecode 101

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8 minutes ago, telecode 101 said:

that is tempting. when you take into account what inflation has done to the dollar in last 24 months. RC-20 is sort of like a hipper version of MixBox.. for chill and D&B.

Shut up!

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We can agree to disagree, Larry, you clearly have had some less than affectionate words for a lot of developers like your epic battle with IK. 

I look at developers from two perspectives. As a customer and as a marketing and branding strategist (I've consulted to around two dozen of them in this industry).  There are a number of strategies Toontrack has taken over the past decade I would classify as customer unfriendly, but specifically, in this instance, I'm thinking of their practice of as you (Larry) put it, shutting the door on upgrade pricing for past customers. That is antithetical to being customer loyal.  

Software developers in this industry commonly have an upgrade path for customers of their major product lines when introducing a new version of their product and don't put tight time restrictions on it. They can easily state that the are no longer supporting a previous iteration of the product and still continue upgrade pricing. And yes, when there is an extended amount of time -- say a decade -- sure, you can see upgrade pricing is no longer offered. So why do companies time limit upgrades? There's only one reason. To drive revenue more quickly, to force the hand of past customers to make a purchase that meets the brand's timeline.  There's no mystery behind. They're forcing customers to pay on their timeline, not the customer's timeline or financial consideration.  And again, if that timeline can span a decade, of course, a software developer needs to put limits, but not the kind of limits Toontrack engages in. That's hyper-aggressive and very customer unfriendly.  I bought SD2 and don't qualify for upgrade pricing to SD3, so I'd have to shell out the same as a brand new customer, $400 USD or more. Far more than their competitors' offerings.  

Larry, while you hold XLN in utter contempt for not having a new version of AD2 -- and I empathize with the desire for them to introduce a new version of the product; XLN is an extremely customer-focused brand -- they have been excellent at maintaining/updating AD2 at no cost to customers. I bought AD2 several years ago as an upgrade when it was first tolled out. I've used AD2 on three different PCs with three different versions of Windows and it performed flawlessly on each. That, IMO, is not abandonware, as you regularly label it. Abandonware isn't software that is well maintained, regularly updated and supported by a developer. It's just a product that hasn't seen innovation in a very long time. And looking at what XLN can do with XO, I think they have the ability to make some real improvements to AD2. I'm not sure why they don't. I would imagine that it has been their biggest selling product line, so you would expect that they would keep actively developing it, not just maintain it, which doesn't bring in revenue. So, I really don't know what's up with XLN and their AD2 line. I would expect that AD3 would have to be rolled out within the next year. But it's been a lot of years. If they didn't maintain the product so well, I think you could call it abandonware, but again, it's a well maintained and supported product.  The thing is, it's just been a long time since they've introduced a new version -- which  many software companies do just for revenue's sake. So, I would at least give them credit for that. 

Edited by PavlovsCat
Grammatical edits.
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44 minutes ago, cclarry said:

My experiences with Toontrack have been nothing but good.
I'm sure there was a good reason (for them) to shut the door
on upgrades...I highly doubt it was "arbitrary", and just to make
people mad...that's not their MO....

I think it coincided with the time that they rolled out their product manager/downloads (they used to only sell DVDs). I'm guessing it might have been something to do with tracking of the serial on the physically printed sleeves, and their new system - so they just decided to bite the bullet and do a hard cut-off point. I'd completely understand, but I also understand why this was an unpopular move.

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7 minutes ago, antler said:

I think it coincided with the time that they rolled out their product manager/downloads (they used to only sell DVDs). I'm guessing it might have been something to do with tracking of the serial on the physically printed sleeves, and their new system - so they just decided to bite the bullet and do a hard cut-off point. I'd completely understand, but I also understand why this was an unpopular move.

Makes sense...and ditto!

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3 hours ago, John Maar said:

Once I bought Superior Drummer (v2, then upgraded to v3), I stopped using AD2. Never gone back. Never missed it.

I have no doubt there is truth to that but the price tag!!!!  It better be stomping on AD2 for what it cost.  The great thing about AD2 is that you get quite a bit for what you pay. I have just about every drum program out there except SD2 and I still use AD2 in my rotation.

 

Edited by Patrick Derbidge
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11 minutes ago, Fleer said:

Shut up!

but its true. 😞

IIRC, I just looked at some of the numbers. Inflation shot up like crazy .. fyi..

FD7jtiSXIAkD3an?format=jpg&name=4096x409

 

There is a song on a not particularly well received Paul McCartney record that reminds me of this.  but I like that record.  Great playing on it by Pete Townsend and Nile Rogers.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Brian Lawler said:

Most of the XO love focuses on the sound selection, which IS cool.  I think the beat editor is my favorite feature.  No brainer at that price.

I agree. You really have to decide what your purpose is when it comes to these purchases. For me, organizing samples was one, but the other was the fact that I don't consider myself a seasoned beatmaker so when I do music like that, I need a tool that can adapt. I don't want static loops without flexibility, but I don't want to bang out beats on my keys or my pads either cause it would just sound amateurish. Having the extra sample library and the built in grooves and beatmaking tools like you get with the traditional EZD and AD2 software is what these types of software were missing in the past. Of course there were the drum machines but it wasn't probably til Giest that the groove and beatmaking software started to get a facelift and even then I'm surprised that it has taken so long to see products like Atlas and XO. The idea is to have instruments that are bit like having a band mate where you give them an idea and they know what to do with that idea. I still use battery quite a bit but only when I know exactly how I want the groove to sound and when the beat is not too advanced for my puny brain.

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5 hours ago, cclarry said:

My experiences with Toontrack have been nothing but good.

Actually mine is quite the opposite. I acquired EZdrummer this year, but I wish I had known that the GUI was not resizable before doing so...

At least The AD2 GUI can be resized!

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5 hours ago, Patrick Derbidge said:

I have no doubt there is truth to that but the price tag!!!!  It better be stomping on AD2 for what it cost.  The great thing about AD2 is that you get quite a bit for what you pay. I have just about every drum program out there except SD2 and I still use AD2 in my rotation.

 

I live by a "cry once" theory. I save until I can buy the best quality, and then cry once.

That said, XLN support told me that they use a multi-bit depth approach to their samples, between 16-bit and 24-bit, depending on the complexity of the audio sample, to minimize the library size. Clever. But they p'd me off when they removed the hidden "offline" page where you could download your purchased MIDI packs for use in other drum samplers. Why? I still have AD2 and AK installed, but a) don't use them and b) stopped purchasing expansion kits for AD2.

I sometimes use EZKeys to develop keyboard parts, but then play the generated MIDI through whichever VST keyboard instrument I want to use (I have a LOT of really good ones). Same with EZBass, but for bass VSTs like MODO Bass.

I'm no longer married (3 ex-wives, but no alimony payments). Never had children. I'm retired and finally able to spend my money on my hobby, so I don't claim that others should spend money the way I do.

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6 hours ago, PavlovsCat said:

We can agree to disagree, Larry, you clearly have had some less than affectionate words for a lot of developers like your epic battle with IK. 

I look at developers from two perspectives. As a customer and as a marketing and branding strategist (I've consulted to around two dozen of them in this industry).  There are a number of strategies Toontrack has taken over the past decade I would classify as customer unfriendly, but specifically, in this instance, I'm thinking of their practice of as Larry put it, shutting the door on upgrade pricing for past customers. That is antithetical to being customer loyal.  

Software developers in this industry commonly have an upgrade path for customers of their major product lines when introducing a new version of their product and don't put tight time restrictions on it. They can easily state that the are no longer supporting a previous iteration of the product and still continue upgrade pricing. And yes, when there is an extended amount of time -- say a decade -- sure, you can see upgrade pricing is no longer offered. So why do companies time limit upgrades? There's only one reason. To drive revenue more quickly.  There's no mystery behind. They're forcing customers to pay on their timeline, not the customer's timeline.  And again, if that timeline can span a decade, of course, a software developer needs to put limits, but not the kind of limits Toontrack engages in. That's hyper-aggressive and very customer unfriendly.  I bought SD2 and don't qualify for upgrade pricing to SD3, so I'd have to shell out the same as a brand new customer, $400 USD or more. Far more than their competitors' offerings.  

Larry, while you hold XLN in utter contempt for not having a new version of AD2 -- and I empathize with the desire for them to introduce a new version of the product; XLN is an extremely customer-focused brand. They have been excellent at maintaining/updating AD2 at no cost to customers. I bought AD2 several years ago as an upgrade when it was first tolled out. I've used AD2 on three different PCs with three different versions of Windows and it performed flawlessly on each. That, IMO, is not abandonware, as you regularly label it. Abandonware isn't software that is well maintained, regularly updated and supported by a developer. It's just a product that hasn't seen innovation in a very long time. And looking at what XLN can do with XO, I think they have the ability to make some real improvements to AD2. I'm not sure why they don't. I would imagine that it has been their biggest selling product line, so you would expect that they would keep actively developing it, not just maintain it, which doesn't bring in revenue. So, I really don't know what's up with XLN and their AD2 line. I would expect that AD3 would have to be rolled out within the next year. But it's been a lot of years. If they didn't maintain the product so well, I think you could call it abandonware, but again, it's a well maintained and supported product.  The thing is, it's just been a long time since they've introduced a new version -- which  many software companies do just for revenue's sake. So, I would at least give them credit for that. 

Word. 

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16 hours ago, Kamikaze said:

No idea, I've just come back from a hiatus and somehow I stumbled on it [AD2 GUI scaling] the other day pretty quickly. But I like it a a lot. 

According to XLN Audio’s Facebook page, AD2 has apparently had a scalable GUI since 2015. Strange that I’ve never noticed it. XO is of course scalable, but when I check the other plug-ins (Addictive Keys, Addictive Trigger, DS-10, RC-20) it seems like every plug-in except Addictive Keys is scalable. The selected scaling is kept between DAW sessions. Too bad they stopped at AK.

Edit: Thanks to @Kamikaze I ran the XLN Online Installer where I got a new version of AK (1.5.0) where the GUI indeed is resizeable.

Edited by Canopus
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7 minutes ago, Canopus said:

According to XLN Audio’s Facebook page, AD2 has apparently had a scalable GUI since 2015. Strange that I’ve never noticed it. XO is of course scalable, but when I check the other plug-ins (Addictive Keys, Addictive Trigger, DS-10, RC-20) it seems like every plug-in except Addictive Keys is scalable. The selected scaling is kept between DAW sessions. Too bad they stopped at AK.

When was the last time XLN released a new expansion instrument for Addictive Keys? Just after the end of the War of 1812?

j/k

Almost.

AK is truly abandonware.

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49 minutes ago, John Maar said:

When was the last time XLN released a new expansion instrument for Addictive Keys? Just after the end of the War of 1812?

j/k

Almost.

AK is truly abandonware.

June 2013

I wouldn't say its 'Truly' abandonware, because of the updates which are more than just repairs. But I do agree, we won't be seeing anymore keys from them.

It's a shame, I would definitely go for a Hohner clavinet. Sonic Couture's seems to be the best out there and I would basically be hoping for a similar level of options XLN. But the fact it's in the same engine would appeal to me more. 

Same with a Wurlitzer, this would sit nicely with the existing Rhodes.

 

But I think the market got a bit saturated for these sounds 10 years ago, and so they stepped away.  I can understand that, it's a shame, but at least the updates are still coming, so they are not selling a legacy product. 

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1 hour ago, Canopus said:

According to XLN Audio’s Facebook page, AD2 has apparently had a scalable GUI since 2015. Strange that I’ve never noticed it. XO is of course scalable, but when I check the other plug-ins (Addictive Keys, Addictive Trigger, DS-10, RC-20) it seems like every plug-in except Addictive Keys is scalable. The selected scaling is kept between DAW sessions. Too bad they stopped at AK.

Addictive Keys is scalable. And last year they refined the images some more to make the scaling sharper

ADK.png

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1 hour ago, Kamikaze said:

Addictive Keys is scalable. And last year they refined the images some more to make the scaling sharper

That IS strange. I have AK version 1.4.3 build 210318 (March 18, 2021 I would guess) and this is how it looks on my computer. No "UI Scaling & Settings" menu option available for me. Do you have some other version?

cjeWpBH.jpg

I wonder whether it has anything to do with Open GL. On my desktop I've got an AMD Radeon HD 7700 with 2GB VRAM. Not very impressive, but still good enough I would assume. I even started up my brand new Lenovo ThinkPad laptop which has a dedicated nVidia GeForce card but the AK menu looked the same. Maybe I should contact XLN Audio support.

Edited by Canopus
Just had to install the new version of AK.

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13 minutes ago, Kamikaze said:

Version 1.5.0

It's a new machine, so installed last week.

Thanks! Now I ran the XLN Online Installer and sure enough, I got a new version of Addictive Keys. Version 1.5.0 build 211115 was installed (so compiled only five days ago). And sure enough, in this version AK is scalable!

So much for "abandonware".

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Does Addictive Drums 2 have any unique expansions that would compliment Superior Drummer 3 expansions? My SD expansions are mainly metal/rock and I noticed AD2 has some rnb/soul and hip hop expansions. How are those?

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