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DallasSteve

Help Using Waves Tune

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I'm trying to pitch correct a vocal audio track in Cakewalk using Waves Tune.  Below is a screen shot showing 2 problems that I am having.

Red circles - I selected D Major, and I even put an X on the C# key, but it still scans a C# note.  What am I missing?  That note should be a D.  I suppose I can drag it into place, but I thought the purpose of identifying the legal notes is so that the VST will do most of the work.

Blue circles - The app scanned in some notes/sounds that are way off pitch.  Can I select those and delete them or do I have to drag them down beside the other notes?

This is my first time to pitch correct like this so I may not understand the principles involved.  I tried to watch a How To video, but it didn't cover this type of repair.

 

Cakewalk3.jpg

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@DallasSteve the circled blue are just breaths or “sss” and various noises that we naturally create. You can delete them but Waves will just keep Re detect them and they pose no issue leaving them be.  

The red circle on the x scale marker - the note is so off pitch that it falls on the very ends of note into the next note as you can see the green line tracing the very bottom of that square which means it’s extremely flat for that pitch.  
 

Also, my years spent using note and scale identifiers has never been more than 80% accurate, and those 80% times were very few.  Only times they catch the right scale and pitch is when the vocalist is having an unusually great day or when I have someone with perfect pitch.  
 

other factors also include background noise, mismatched impedance,  dc offset, bad diaphragm on the microphone that bends easily at the slightest of breathing or change of room air pressure, and of course any noise with a pitch going in in the background is going to cause auto pitch correction inaccuracies.  And also always start your project applying a global key signature, timing and tempo so that all of the smart plugins can conform to instructions.

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1 hour ago, Glenn Stanton said:

C# is in the D major scale 🙂 TTSTTTS (tone - semi)

Yes, that's true, but in this case it's not in the melody so I was trying to block it out and have the pitch correction software shift it up to the next note, D, which is what I was trying to sing.  If this app can't do that, then I don't know if it's worth the money.

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Clovis

Thanks for your comments.  It's interesting to me that one of those blue circles was exactly one octave above the note I was singing.  Maybe it was a harmonic that happens naturally.  So do you think a pitch correction VST can make any significant improvement to what I sing or am I wasting my time?  Should I try setting the scale and fiddling with the notes in the scale, or just use the tool "chromatically" and edit the notes manually?  How do I force it to re-scan if I change some scale settings?  And how to I lock the correction into the track so that it doesn't re-scan and return to the real vocal?  Is there a way to commit the changes "destructively" (I think is the term) once I am satisfied and can I remove the VST from the track at that time?

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13 minutes ago, Glenn Stanton said:

have you tried the Melodyne that comes with the CbB? 

Glenn

No.  I tried GSnap, but I didn't know there was one in CdB.  I guess I didn't search very hard.  I'll give that a try, and report my results.  I like freebies.

Thanks, Steve

 

 

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4 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

have you tried the Melodyne that comes with the CbB? 

Glenn

I'm digging into this now.  Melodyne was not in my copy of CdB so I Googled it.  It appears that you can install a 30 day trial in Cakewalk. OK, I may be game for that.  But it looks like there are multiple versions of Melodyne at multiple price points.  I'd do the beginner level at $99, but not the higher levels at $399.  I suppose they are going to let you test the expensive version for 30 days to wow you, but what I want to test is the entry level version.  Do you know the "deets" (details)?  I may find the answer Googling around before you have time to reply.

 

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the melodyne essentials will do a decent job of monophonic fixes. lots of power there. i have the Editor version which is single track polyphonic which is quite nice (but as you noted $$$). i also have Waves Tune which i have only used a few times and (to me) it seemed easy enough to use (dragging notes, etc) but i didn't try out the automatic features or custom scales etc. maybe some quality time with the Waves Tune manual, or some youtube videos, will get you working. i know i learned a lot of tricks for melodyne watching the Celemony content.

Edited by Glenn Stanton
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Glenn

I tried my first fix in Melodyne with the first line of my verse.  I was off on my pitch a lot of places.  That doesn't surprise me.  Maybe I'll go back and run this on some recordings I did 30 years ago to see if I was really much closer.  I spent 5 minutes dragging the blobs (notes) around and double-clicking them to tune them based on my correct notes.  OMG.  I went from terrible to "not too bad".  This is a "Where have you been all my life?" moment.  I'll try using it's automatic functions next, but if I have to spend a few minutes manually fixing my vocals by dragging the blobs around, I can live with that.  It seems to be a step ahead of Waves Tune overall.  I'll pay the $99 but I'll wait a few weeks and maybe they'll send me a discount offer,  Thanks for the tip.  Later I might still buy the Ovox, but this will keep me busy for a while.  Do you know how I commit a change to the audio track after I've cleaned it up in Meoldyne, or is that not possible?

Edited by DallasSteve

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3 hours ago, Glenn Stanton said:

render the region fx (same menu as create region fx)

Glenn

It looks like that opens up a whole new area of study: Region FX.  I see that information in the Cakewalk documentation.  I probably can also study it in some YouTube tutorials.  My question is: Is that the way I should use Melodyne to edit my vocal tracks?  Should I convert them to Region FX clips and when they are tweaked the way I want them Render them to the audio track?  Or do creators/producers prefer to just make the changes in Melodyne, save the project with the audio track as a normal track using the Audio FX, and then eventually master the song that way?

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i know in editor i can open the files directly and process in Melodyne. i've forgotten is the essentials version provides a standalone UI. otherwise i tend to just use it as a region FX and also take a copy of the MIDI generated (never know when that will come in useful - sax solos based on vocals. etc). the Region FX is applied to the audio clips - when you create it - Melodyne creates a bunch of files called "separations" which it uses to manage what you see in the UI. then once you're happy with the edits in the region, render it. this saves the clip with the updates and cleans up the separations. then it's saved as a normal audio track in your project and you can do your other work - eq, effects, etc - same as any other project.

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On 8/12/2021 at 7:52 AM, DallasSteve said:

Glenn

I tried my first fix in Melodyne with the first line of my verse.  I was off on my pitch a lot of places.  That doesn't surprise me.  Maybe I'll go back and run this on some recordings I did 30 years ago to see if I was really much closer.  I spent 5 minutes dragging the blobs (notes) around and double-clicking them to tune them based on my correct notes.  OMG.  I went from terrible to "not too bad".  This is a "Where have you been all my life?" moment.  I'll try using it's automatic functions next, but if I have to spend a few minutes manually fixing my vocals by dragging the blobs around, I can live with that.  It seems to be a step ahead of Waves Tune overall.  I'll pay the $99 but I'll wait a few weeks and maybe they'll send me a discount offer,  Thanks for the tip.  Later I might still buy the Ovox, but this will keep me busy for a while.  Do you know how I commit a change to the audio track after I've cleaned it up in Meoldyne, or is that not possible?

Hi. I really don't think anything compares with Melodyne and my vocals are the same. I can hear the sharpness and flatness and it ain't pretty. What I normally do is make a backup copy of the entire vocal track. Archive it. This is to have something to go back to and compare with if needed. Choose the suspicious phrase, I think Control R will open it in Melodyne. I can't remember is that is the default or I did it, but I think the default. Tune to your desire. You can render it, or as some of my clients are really worthy to be pitched and thankful for it I have many edits, so I just hit B which bounces it to track. I think you might lose a little bit of gain, but no sonic difference in quality. I got the Essentials one for free with Cakewalk (or maybe it was Sonar) but as it does not allow you to tweak the vibrato which makes a huge difference, I purchased the next up- Assistant? 
  If you want a second opinion or to find out how good you (it) can sound,  render me a stereo mix of the music and your voice separate and I will take a look at it. I am very careful what I spend these days, but I need Melodyne in my work flow.

Edited by Michael Fogarty
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11 hours ago, Michael Fogarty said:

Hi. I really don't think anything compares with Melodyne and my vocals are the same. I can hear the sharpness and flatness and it ain't pretty. What I normally do is make a backup copy of the entire vocal track. Archive it. This is to have something to go back to and compare with if needed. Choose the suspicious phrase, I think Control R will open it in Melodyne. I can't remember is that is the default or I did it, but I think the default. Tune to your desire. You can render it, or as some of my clients are really worthy to be pitched and thankful for it I have many edits, so I just hit B which bounces it to track. I think you might lose a little bit of gain, but no sonic difference in quality. I got the Essentials one for free with Cakewalk (or maybe it was Sonar) but as it does not allow you to tweak the vibrato which makes a huge difference, I purchased the next up- Assistant? 
  If you want a second opinion or to find out how good you (it) can sound,  render me a stereo mix of the music and your voice separate and I will take a look at it. I am very careful what I spend these days, but I need Melodyne in my work flow.

Michael

Are you saying you will process it further with Assistant to show me what it will do?  That's a generous offer, if I understood correctly.  Did you have to pay full price or do they offer discounts sometimes?  Should I get on their mailing list?

 

Edited by DallasSteve

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15 hours ago, Michael Fogarty said:

Hi. I really don't think anything compares with Melodyne and my vocals are the same. I can hear the sharpness and flatness and it ain't pretty. What I normally do is make a backup copy of the entire vocal track. Archive it. This is to have something to go back to and compare with if needed. Choose the suspicious phrase, I think Control R will open it in Melodyne. I can't remember is that is the default or I did it, but I think the default. Tune to your desire. You can render it, or as some of my clients are really worthy to be pitched and thankful for it I have many edits, so I just hit B which bounces it to track. I think you might lose a little bit of gain, but no sonic difference in quality. I got the Essentials one for free with Cakewalk (or maybe it was Sonar) but as it does not allow you to tweak the vibrato which makes a huge difference, I purchased the next up- Assistant? 
  If you want a second opinion or to find out how good you (it) can sound,  render me a stereo mix of the music and your voice separate and I will take a look at it. I am very careful what I spend these days, but I need Melodyne in my work flow.

Michael

I checked the demo version of Melodyne that I have.  It is the Studio version.  I contacted Melodyne and they said I can switch to the other versions in the Help > License menu.  With that in mind, I have already tuned the notes in my test project and they are acceptable now, but nothing great.  What other tools/techniques would you suggest I try to polish up my vocals?  I can access them all, test them, and then decide which level version I want to buy.

Edited by DallasSteve

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My suggestion is vocal coaching and/ or singing lessons.

I'm not being snide, either.  All these tuning plugins work much better if they don't have to work so hard. They are best employed to nudge those two or three notes out of an otherwise great performance that are slightly out of tune back towards where they belong.

Ultimately, it is much faster as well.

Singing in time and in tune is not hard. It is a natural part of the human voice. The problem is that people are told that singing is such a difficult thing and open to only those blessed few touched by the hand of God. They are told this so much that they end up believing it.

It's really only a matter of getting out of your own way and allowing the notes to come out. ALLOWING them, not making them. Something that has to be relearned after believing for so long that you "can't sing."

And I say this as a non- singer.

I really have no desire to be a singer. I don't particularly like it. But I can. I'm not very good at it: I don't have much range, power or breath control. Because I don't practice. But I can do it. In tune. 

So can you.

Edited by bdickens
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bdickens

That's good advice, especially for musicians on the South side of 60.  And while I'm sure it could help me, too, it wouldn't bring me up to semi-professional level.  My voice is somewhere between Paul McCartney and Clint Eastwood now.  I'm just looking for something that will take my demos out of the "cringe zone".  If there's ever any real future for them I will need to look for a good singer to re-do the vocals.

Edited by DallasSteve

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FWIW... I own Waves Tune, Waves Real-Time Tune, and Melodyne5 Essential. Each has certain benefits, so I experimented a bit.

When recording a vocal, the first FX plugin is Waves Real-Time Tune, which does a credible job of pitch-correcting a voice, especially if you pay attention to all the options available and tweak them as needed.

When editing the vocal, I use Melodyne5 Essential (which was a free upgrade from the Sonar Platinum non-trial version of Melodyne) and use the automatic options for correcting pitch on the whole track. The Waves RT Tune did the heavy lifting on pitch, so Melodyne's auto-correct editing works well, except for the vibrato and certain sliding notes as mentioned in an earlier post on this thread.

After committing (rendering) the Melodyne adjustments on the track, I suspend Waves RT Tune and Melodyne, and add the Waves Tune plugin which allows for pretty complete editing of the pitch including vibrato and sliding notes, and offer more useful/powerful editing options than Melodyne's Essential product.

I have also simply stacked Waves RT Tune plugin first, followed by Waves Tune. That saves some time on editing, but doesn't have the neat automatic pitch correction option(s) in Melodyne5 Essential  that one can apply to the entire song at once.

DAW CPU impact of running these multiple pitch-correction plugins on a track is reasonably low, and you would add additional vocal shaping plugins as desired after the pitch meets your needs, then you can bypass the pitch-correction plugins after committing the pitch changes (and Saving).

As far as cost goes, The Waves regular price reductions typically offer Waves Tune for under $35 and Waves RT for around $40, plus buying them both yield getting another plugin free, although their hottest/newest plugings are generally not available as the freebie.

Seems to work well for me now that I'm practised in using these tools. Allows for some very fine detail tweaking of vocals for around $75 given my free Melodyne license from Sonar Platinum.

Edited by NOLAGuy
typo, clearup
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