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Larry Novik

Bandlab crashing

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For the person with the rdas1089 listed in the crash thats the Roland driver crashing and there may be a compatibility issue causing it. We don't have any way of addressing driver crashes unfortunately. If you send share a link to the minidump from the crash I may be able to see what operation is causing the crash.

For Larry, are you still crashing after updating Cakewalk? If so if you share your minidump file it may throw more light on the nature of the crash or if its caused by a system related problem like what msmcleod suggested.

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On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 9:04 PM, Robert Bone said:

Is your Windows up to date with maintenance?

Also, when you say you can't update Bandlab, do you mean you cannot update Cakewalk by Bandlab?  What version of Cakewalk are you running? What version of Windows are you running?  What error do you get when you try to update by clicking on the Update icon?

Bob Bone

 

Hi Bob,
no no, i can update Bandlab ! 
My Cakewalk is updated at 2019.03 Build 20 - 64Bit on Win10

After i opened my project like you told me (with Shift pressed) and i've choose only the first 5 plugins (of about 20 in the project)
Cakewalk open it without crashing, so i have close the project without save.
The next time i forget to open it with Shift pressed but all seems to turn back OK ! I can open the project without problems… 

 

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Thanks for the info.  I do realize I'm  going to have to update or buy another computer.  Does everyone/everyone agree that if I upgraded from an old Intel 5 to a new i7, and got a 1-2 terabyte hard drive and a 500 Gb SSD, that this would be more that adequate for my needs. Since I am  not very computer savvy, I think  that if I just upgraded components instead of buying a new whole unit now, in 2 years I'd have to update something else. And that's paying someone labor to to that again.

Thanks.

LNovik

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Actually, I just  spoke with a computer guy and he rec'ed just upgrading, so maybe I just will add an SSD and more RAM, such as 16 Gb. Hopefully, that will fix the problem. I don't use the computer for anything else, so  the 2 drives should be adequate.

LNovik

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On 4/23/2019 at 9:44 PM, Larry Novik said:

I must have 20-25 t racks, though mostly just MIDI tracks. About 3 or 4 audio tracks. I certainly don't have an  SSD, and I'll look to see (not on the computer I'm writing this note on) what  kind of  hard drive it is. As I had said, most of the audio tracks are on mute.

To ask everyone again: I do remember someone saying something on this forum about different setups for either recording or mixing a track. Something about buffers, etc. Perhaps I need to adjust  my buffers while adjusting my MIDI tracks. Lately, I had been doing a lot of automations with volume, so perhaps I didn't have the correct buffers set up. However, I do realize that perhaps if my computer were newer, or had more RAM, I might not have to  adjust to get the perfect settings.

I also guess, Tezza, you are saying that when I get a new computer, I  should get one with a good regular hard drive + a SSD.

LNovik

If you are using 20 MIDI tracks, are you using 20 virtual instruments with them? That could produce a rather heavy CPU and memory load, unless you freeze a bunch of them. Each instrument track may need a separate CPU core/thread to run on, depending on how hungry they are.

20 audio tracks would probably be fine with your computer, depending on whether you were running any realtime plugin effects on them. Audio itself does not require as much CPU and memory as MIDI does with virtual instruments.

 

Edited by abacab

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Several points. 

First, I too was recently able to update Cakewalk by Bandlab. Whenever I tried prior to that, I would get a message that I had to install Bandlab asst, However, I had already installed Bandlab asst, and it was opened. I finally re-installed BandLab asst, and was then able to update Cakewalk by Bandlab. This was after I had originally started this thread.

2)I believe I have NO plug in's enable on my current project. There are about 30 MIDI tracks, now that I've counted them, and several audio tracks. I did open the project a few weeks ago in safe mode, and disable any plug ins on the project I was working on. Shortly after that, I saved my project, since it had been crashing alot. I realized shortly after this that I had saved it without plugs in enabled, but that's OK with me for now. So plug-ins is NOT the reason I continue to crash--or at least I think that's the case.

3I must say that when Cakewalk by Bandlab is enabled, I also see that Bandlab asst always seems to be "on." I recently exited out from that (Bandlab Asst), and I seem to be crashing a little less often lately, though it still occurs.

4)As asked by someone,  my 6 GB of RAM was original equipment.

5)Noel Berthwick: you asked if I could supply you with my minidump file. When I crash, of course, I am thrown out of Cakewalk by Bandlab, so I can't  do anything then.  However, if you steered me in the right direction, I would try to find it. Right now,  the only place that would occur to me to look for a minidump would be in the toilet!

I believe that answers all the outstanding questions.

Thanks again for the support. I'm leaning toward an SSD 500 GB drive addition and maybe another bigger hard drive. ALso 16 GB RAM, I would think.

LNovik

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4 hours ago, Larry Novik said:

2)I believe I have NO plug in's enable on my current project. There are about 30 MIDI tracks, now that I've counted them, and several audio tracks. I did open the project a few weeks ago in safe mode, and disable any plug ins on the project I was working on. Shortly after that, I saved my project, since it had been crashing alot. I realized shortly after this that I had saved it without plugs in enabled, but that's OK with me for now. So plug-ins is NOT the reason I continue to crash--or at least I think that's the case.

You still have not specified what you are playing those 30 MIDI tracks through. There has to be an instrument somewhere.  Are you using only external MIDI hardware instruments?

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Hi,

Thanks for the minidumps location. I'll get to that soon. I assume I'm supposed to go there after I get thrown out, but I'll look at it first (before I have the chance to be thrown out of Epic.)

Sorry abacab, I did not answer your question. Yes, I am using external hardware synths to play all of my tracks. About 8 or 9 of then are just  drum tracks, such as bass, snare, etc, so they are all going to a Motif ES. Bass is to a Roland EX35. Sax is to a  Korg Kronos, and the rest of about 10 sounds are going to a Roland Integra--which has dedicated effects for each MIDI part/channel. No virtual synths. I do have a few audio tracks so far, so that ends up close to 30.

LNovik

 

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24 minutes ago, Larry Novik said:

Hi,

Thanks for the minidumps location. I'll get to that soon. I assume I'm supposed to go there after I get thrown out, but I'll look at it first (before I have the chance to be thrown out of Epic.)

Sorry abacab, I did not answer your question. Yes, I am using external hardware synths to play all of my tracks. About 8 or 9 of then are just  drum tracks, such as bass, snare, etc, so they are all going to a Motif ES. Bass is to a Roland EX35. Sax is to a  Korg Kronos, and the rest of about 10 sounds are going to a Roland Integra--which has dedicated effects for each MIDI part/channel. No virtual synths. I do have a few audio tracks so far, so that ends up close to 30.

LNovik

 

OK, well that clears that up. MIDI tracks that are just sending data out through a MIDI port are not CPU intensive. Same for playing audio tracks without plugins. Your current PC should be able to run fine with that load. So something else must be conflicting.

While a new computer is always welcome, I'm not sure that expense should be necessary to solve your problem. I would keep digging, as there is no guarantee that this issue would not follow you to a new computer.

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Thanks, Abacab. This is exactly what I've been afraid of.  I should say that when Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB) kept crashing a lot, I had been doing  MIDI editing--thinks like automating volume of tracks. I was also copying some parts of tracks and moving them to later in the track. Just saying that in case it's a hint for my problem.

So,  I've assembled some "digging" tools. I will be having a computer type person come to the house in a few days. Though I'm pretty sure he does NOT know much about music software, I can at least ask him if anything else is active during the times I am editing in my CbB song. As I might have said, when I closed out Bandlab Asst, there seemed to be less dropouts. I'll prob still get another drive and more RAM.

I will also try to locate the Minidumps data; perhaps this will help.

I also want to explore again finding out what was said in the past about mixing and editing vs recording. By this I mean, that person had said that for one, turn the buffers up to a certain value, and for another, turn them down.

Thanks.

LNovik

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Larry > tell me if your system is up to date bios and chipset and video :    

https://www.dell.com/support/home/ca/en/cabsdt1/product-support/product/inspiron-580/drivers

Dell Inspiron 580/580S BIOS, A07

BIOS07 Jul 2012  …last bios

Intel Ibex Peak H57 Chipset, v.9.1.1.1020, A00

Chipset07 Jul 2012 correct chipset

Google cpu-z it will help you see whats going on in your system !

 

 

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Hi, Larry.  I am a keyboard player, so when I record, it is ALWAYS with soft synth plugins, as all of my sounds come from those.  I edit midi data all the time, and also copy/paste midi data from one place to another in a project, quite frequently.  I mention these things because I haven't had a Cakewalk or Sonar Platinum crash for a long long time, so I believe your issues are with some aspect with your project or computer's environment/components.  

Cakewalk could give two hoots about which external hardware midi devices you are using, so it is unlikely something regarding those external devices would be crashing Cakewalk, unless, by some chance, some firmware is out of date with one or more of those external hardware devices.

I am not sure if maybe something is incompatible between Cakewalk and Windows 7 or not, but since it is likely some aspect of something with your system/environment is causing your issues, I would certainly consider that.

I am sending you a private message with my email address.  You indicate that your failing project(s) is/are mostly some combination of audio tracks and midi tracks (driving external hardware, rather than triggering soft synths), so if you can send one of these projects to me, I should be able to see if I too am having issues trying to do anything with or to the project, and perhaps my exercise of doing that would give some additional findings and help steer you to a resolution.  If your project is too large for an email, if you have a Dropbox account you can upload it to there, and maybe put it into a new folder in Dropbox, followed by you sending me an invitation to share, which I can then use to download the project and try it out on my system, which is quite stable.  If you are unfamiliar with using Dropbox, my cell number will also be in my private message to you, and you are welcome to call me so that I can walk you through the Dropbox upload and share process.

Whatever is going on, with your projects failing - my motto toward that kind of thing is: "It's gotta be SOMETHING".  We should be able to get this resolved, as there are only so many things that could be causing your issues.  (I say quite hopefully).  :)

Bob Bone

 

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1 hour ago, StarTekh said:

Larry > tell me if your system is up to date bios and chipset and video :    

https://www.dell.com/support/home/ca/en/cabsdt1/product-support/product/inspiron-580/drivers

Dell Inspiron 580/580S BIOS, A07

BIOS07 Jul 2012  …last bios

Intel Ibex Peak H57 Chipset, v.9.1.1.1020, A00

Chipset07 Jul 2012 correct chipset

Google cpu-z it will help you see whats going on in your system !

 

 

AWESOME post.  I was going to ask Larry the same questions.  He did post that he is running an AMD-based system, running with Windows 7.  I have just sent him a private message, with my email and cell info, so that he can send me a compressed project folder so I can load it and work with it on my system (quite stable, and running Windows 10 Pro).  If it works properly on my system, then that would be further reinforcement that his issues with crashing are due to some elements of his system, rather than a problem with project corruption.

I think that collectively, we can get to the bottom of this for Larry, and I thank you for your investment into helping him.  Kewl beans, 

Bob Bone

 

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Robert thank you : I remember you from the old sonar site : AS you can see I build from the Bios-Up... I'm Currently running a Asus prime z370a  8086k with all the right parts  Asus 1050ti .. Giga alpine ridge TB card... 16g Crucial ..Samsung nvme 960 pro and Crucial data drives Siig firewire  and M-audio 410 for midi and Apollo Twin mk ll ..It's nothing short of a dream build .. Happy Tracking !

 

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14 hours ago, StarTekh said:

Robert thank you : I remember you from the old sonar site : AS you can see I build from the Bios-Up... I'm Currently running a Asus prime z370a  8086k with all the right parts  Asus 1050ti .. Giga alpine ridge TB card... 16g Crucial ..Samsung nvme 960 pro and Crucial data drives Siig firewire  and M-audio 410 for midi and Apollo Twin mk ll ..It's nothing short of a dream build .. Happy Tracking !

 

Ruh Roh - You remember me?  Yikes - if I am in any kind of trouble, then, uh, I don't know me....but I'll ask around.... (Did you buy that?  hee hee).  I remember you, as well.  Sounds like you have a nice happy desktop.  I went absolutely gonzo on both a desktop and a laptop - desktop has 128 GB of memory, two 2TB NVME 960 Pro drives and six 2TB SSD's, 1600 watt power supply, Ryzen 1950x Thread Ripper CPU, liquid cooled, 1080 video card with 8 GB memory and also liquid cooled with 6 fans, total of 14 fans in the case.  Laptop started life as an Alienware 17 R5, and I upgraded the drives - it now has a 2 TB SSD, and two 2TB NVME drives - it also came with a Thunderbolt 3 port, so I picked up a UAD Arrow Thunderbolt 3 audio interface - I use the laptop for live performance, so no need for a bunch of mic/line inputs - it has 2 and that is fine.  I just use that for either simple mobile recording of a single vocalist or one instrument, and for the live performance it is just used to handle my soft synths.  The Thunderbolt 3 transfer rate is up to 40Gbits/sec, which is insane. Bwa ha ha.....

Anyways - I hope to help Larry with his project, and look forward to hearing from him.  Larry?  Larry? Buehler?  I will keep an eye out for your response, and will try to work with you to get you back up and running your projects without crashing.

Bob Bone

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Thank you, Mr Bone, so very much for your wonderfully supportive note-not to mention to the others in this thread who have offered suggestions. After first going thru my regular Email, spam, and recently deleted messages, I was finally able to find your personal note at the top of the screen. Who knew?

I'm getting on it today, after having spent hours with my hardware computer person yesterday. He strongly rec'ed upgrading to Windows 10, since that will have better support, and is, according to him, faster. I will also being inc'ing my RAM from 6 to either 12 or 16. There are various postings about whether the max my computer (Dell inspiron 580)  can hold is 8 or 16 GB of RAM. I'll also get a Samsung 500 GB SSD while I'm at it.

However, I fully understand that you are saying that the things I was trying to  do in my project should NOT have caused the frequent crashing. I'm getting these hardware updates since, in the past, it seems  like when I have recorded audio while listening to other MIDI, the timing would go off. Meaning that by the end of the 1-3 min of recording, the new audio was not synced with my MIDI.  However, I too am interested in knowing why I am having this problem with simple MIDI editing, and am concerned that after upgrading, the problem could continue. I'll be writing  to you sometime later today.

Thanks again for the generosity you show with your time and expertise.

LNovik

 

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OK Larry : Here's the 1st Issue ( my hardware computer person yesterday )  ...He strongly rec'ed upgrading to Windows 10, since that will have better support

NOT TRUE there is no support for windows 10 for that system and without INF/Chipsetdriver from Dell Your screwd  Run Win 7 & update it here ..

https://www.dell.com/support/home/ca/en/cadhs1/product-support/product/inspiron-580/drivers

As for your support person ..I will let Robert deal with him :)

 

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3 hours ago, Larry Novik said:

I'm getting on it today, after having spent hours with my hardware computer person yesterday. He strongly rec'ed upgrading to Windows 10, since that will have better support, and is, according to him, faster. I will also being inc'ing my RAM from 6 to either 12 or 16. There are various postings about whether the max my computer (Dell inspiron 580)  can hold is 8 or 16 GB of RAM. I'll also get a Samsung 500 GB SSD while I'm at it.

As far as RAM goes, it is probably better to run with either 8GB or 16GB in pairs of equally matched memory modules, either 2x4GB, or 2x8GB. Use the same brand with the same timings, and hopefully the same manufacture date. These can usually be purchased as a matched pair. https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/d/dual-channel-memory.htm

When you do it this way you are ensuring that your BIOS will take full advantage of the dual channel memory controller if you insert them into the correct slots on the board.  Consult the manual. The slots are usually color coded. https://www.crucial.com/usa/en/what-is-dual-channel-memory

For example, say your memory bus was rated at 1600MHz, that would be assuming you are running both channels at 800MHz. So 800MHz+800MHz=1600MHz using both memory channels combined. But this is only theoretical max throughput. I have seen several discussions that real-world benchmarks only see a minor improvement with dual channel memory. But I will take all I can get!

It might be up to your BIOS whether it can support dual channel mode with unevenly matched pairs, such as 4GB+2GB or 8GB+4GB, etc. Or if you put two RAM sticks in the same channel. You might risk slowing down the memory by half. And if you mix and match different brands, with different timings, you may even risk the stability of your system.

Just my two cents! ;)

 

Edited by abacab

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So, Abacab: are you saying that you don't think 4 sticks of 4 RAM each would not work as well as 2 sticks of 8. I'm asking since I think my contact might have already ordered 4 sticks of 4 RAM each.  I do have 4 slots.

LNovik

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